UKBlonde's Sinclair Method journey

[guapo]

I Snap -I am curious to know if one takes naltrexone before drinking, does that person still get that "buzz" feeling? Is the "buzz" reduced or is just totally eliminated so that one does not continue to drink because the alcohol is not doing anything? Thanks for any feedback. SW

Snapdragon, I'm going to speak to Mr. Wolf's question if that's okay with you.

There truly is very little or no buzz when using the naltrexone, If you wait a while after drinking anything, there isn't any reward, therefore, no more drinking. Of course that makes things less fun, but let's face it, that "fun "is a very short window, before you tumble off the cliff. Not much fun getting a DUI, or ruining your marriage, or acting like an idiot.

It does not however, preclude an occasional drink, such as at the bookclub I attended last night with a bunch of men all having a craft beer. I love craft beer, and had one as well. ONLY ONE., , as the desire to drink in general is gone, and you simply don't want to over drink and have all the badness like before

[Marnie]

I just wanted to reply to this thread with my experience so far ( only 2 days ). I researched the sinclair method for awhile before ordering my pills online. My history is drinking about 1 bottle of wine everyday on weekends, twice that. For the last couple of months I have been buying vinho verde at 9% alcohol per bottle. In my mind it was like a harm reduction technique. It's closer to only 2/3 bottle of wine. (3.5 units) My way of trying to cut down as I could never leave 1/3 of a bottle of wine on the counter.

Anyway, I took my first 1/2 pill one hour before drinking yesterday. I bought my bottle of vinho verde. I was just a bit scared that I wouldn't enjoy drinkng my wine and oh my, what have I done.... I have no way to escape my day now that I took this pill. I started drinking my wine. It tasted a little funny and I had no "relief" effect that usually comes with that first drink. It tasted like I was drinking flat wine. I got used to not getting the buzzed effect and watched some TV. It took me much longer to drink the wine than usual. I drank all of it.

Yesterday I went out with a friend for drinks and an appetizer ( a monthly event). I had 2 glasses of wine (after my naltrexone) and felt no buzzed effect, but enjoyed the company and conversation for 2 hours. Usually after one of these nights, I stop by the liquor store afterwards and bring home 1/2 bottle of wine to finish off the evening on my own. The thought crossed my mind but I easily did not go to he the liquor store.

So far the desired effect is being noticed. I'm glad I didn't miss the buzz these last 2 nights. But I can now definately see how someone who really wants to get obliterated could not take their pill beforehand. You still really have to want it out of your life in order take the pill.

[YouKayBee]

Great news Marnie, your honesty is great. It sounds like TSM will work for you and as you say you have to want it for it to be successful.

I know it works, I know people it has worked for (both real life and via the internet).

[spiritwolf333]

Snapdragon, I'm going to speak to Mr. Wolf's question if that's okay with you.

There truly is very little or no buzz when using the naltrexone, If you wait a while after drinking anything, there isn't any reward, therefore, no more drinking. Of course that makes things less fun, but let's face it, that "fun "is a very short window, before you tumble off the cliff. Not much fun getting a DUI, or ruining your marriage, or acting like an idiot.

It does not however, preclude an occasional drink, such as at the bookclub I attended last night with a bunch of men all having a craft beer. I love craft beer, and had one as well. ONLY ONE., , as the desire to drink in general is gone, and you simply don't want to over drink and have all the badness like before

Hi Guapo - thank you for this information. This is exactly what I wanted to know and learn about.

And Guapo -I do not know your story regarding the depths of alcoholism, but do you ever choose not to take your Naltrexone before you drink? If one has been abstinent for an extended period of time and then chooses to drink without the Naltrexone, will that person feel that relaxed-euphoria feeling? Assuming the person does not take the Naltrexone, and drinks heavily that night -will that person immediately fall back into the craving state? And last question, does Naltrexone address any anxiety issues outside of the anxiety created by the alcohol itself?

Thanks for any feedback that you may able to share.

[YouKayBee]

Hi Guapo - thank you for this information. This is exactly what I wanted to know and learn about.

And Guapo -I do not know your story regarding the depths of alcoholism, but do you ever choose not to take your Naltrexone before you drink? If one has been abstinent for an extended period of time and then chooses to drink without the Naltrexone, will that person feel that relaxed-euphoria feeling? Assuming the person does not take the Naltrexone, and drinks heavily that night -will that person immediately fall back into the craving state? And last question, does Naltrexone address any anxiety issues outside of the anxiety created by the alcohol itself?

Thanks for any feedback that you may able to share.

Hi Spirit I'll answer this for now and hopefully Guapo can get back later.

Firstly I haven't a clue if the euphoria is felt if a TSmer drinks without the medication, because for the reasons I'll describe below I have never dared to try it. I do however know from accounts of people who have done this that drinking without nal causes readdiction to happen, perhaps not at first, but the person goes right back to where they were prior to TSM.

This is also talked about in the book Dr Eskapa wrote about TSM. He refers to research with alcoholic rats who they put through TSM, the rats became deaddicted. When they took the nal away readdiction was fairly rapid.

This plus the reports on the TSM forum from those who did try drinking without nal, has convinced me to never drink without nal, ever. I have no desire to run any risk of me returning to alcoholic drinking, it was sheer hell and my life and my health was rapidly being wrecked. Not prepared to ever go back again!

Since I no longer drink alcohol, and haven't for close to 16 months then it's just not a worry.

TSM is simple, 1 tablet, 1 hour prior to any alcohol intake. If you don't drink you don't take it. That's it.

[guapo]

Successfull TSM Proponents agree that drinking without taking the naltrexone is putting you back where you started. However, this method leaves me with no cravings,I can have an occasional drink without any consequences, never get drunk, and at this point never worry about it.

Life is now exponentially better, as I am away from that horrible habit, and don't miss it at all. There's a big difference between having a drink, whether you get a buzz or not, or just getting drunk for its own sake. At this point, I couldn't care less about a buzz.

I can't speak about anxiety as I'm not afflicted with that. Those that use TSM in order to get better, and not an excuse to drink find it to be a very effective strategy.

I give it 5 1/2 stars !!!

[guapo]

BTW, I was no stranger to seeing three empty bottles of wine at the end of the day either.

[YouKayBee]

It always baffles me why someone would want to mess about with TSM, and try drinking without it. I'm also thinking perhaps the cure is deeper that the simple act of taking the medication - that part of the method involves coming to a place where you commit totally to it.

I know that removing the physical craving gave me a chance, a chance to make a choice. In the end I couldn't see any point in drinking (well bar 'escaping' and blotting things out but I don't like the consequences which come with all of that), so don't, and although I miss it and occasionally think "yes I'd like to go off and drink", deep down I don't want to. No longer attracted and I think most people who have been cured and accept they are at a place where they are ready to let go of alcohol, would also be in a very similar place.

[euroleon]

I'll be starting my 3rd stint on TSM as soon as I get off the pain meds I'm on atm. All I'm shooting for it to get my drinking with in what I call safe limits (not drinking all day, blacking out and waking during the night to start over again)

I know it does this for me. I don't particularly like TSM. Its like drinking without the good part but I've been going on 3-10 day binges most of the past year with very high unit totals. On Naltrexone I find it hard to drink 12 light beer and find it impossible to get drunk.

[spiritwolf333]

Please help me and others try to understand better the TSM approach to alcohol reduction or elimination. I do think that this is a very important topic -especially to those who are new to "trying" to become sober using medications.

First, this is why I think TSM may offer the greatest amount of hope to the vast majority AUD sufferers: REGARDLESS of the stage of addiction, when you tell an alcoholic or addict that he or she must quit drinking -forever- their (our) brains go into full force fight or flight. I believe the brain regards the chemical (that one is addicted to) as important, if not more so, than food or even water. This alternative -forever, no more- is just not acceptable to the addicted person's brain. Yes, maybe short term, but most always, never long term.

So, why might the TSM method be more useful (other than the new brain implants)? Because you allow the brain of the addicted to not go into full panic mode. All of a sudden, the brain says yes to a method that might allow "it to cut back" -just slow down the abusive side of the chemical. What the brain of the addicted does NOT KNOW is once that it has a chance to perceive life without the chemical, then it may just have a chance to take over and have the ability to actually choose to drink or not drink.

It is my opinion that many of the medications mentioned on this web site can/do fit in with the TSM -Baclofen, Gabapentin, Naltrexone, etc. (Sinclair Method).
Here is the however. As most of us know, the drug of choice is only a symptom (temporary cure) of the actual underlying disease. With alcoholics, some form of anxiety and/or depression and/or other is the root cause of the addiction, and as such, these root causes must be addressed in order to progress with any type of reduction or elimination of the chemical. If the brain is not altered in some way to perceive "trigger" events differently, it will seek out chemicals that will help it to accept or "feel ok" with the trigger event(s).

The brains of most humans seek substances to comfort and provide for the continued existence of the self (food, alcohol, etc.). It is also my opinion that many brains want to explore (experience) different ways to perceive or to feel -but only temporarily. But when the substance kicks in and actually changes the brain's "circuitry", addiction occurs. After addiction occurs, and you give the brain a chance to re-wire itself, then you give that person a real chance at survival.

With this said, this is why I believe that some form of the Sinclair Method is a real and viable option to many-many addicted suffers. Before now, I really thought that one would have to be "committed" to never using their drug of choice -forever. I no longer believe this, and you folks that have posted on this thread and many of the other medications thread, have convinced me that form of the Sinclair Method is the primary method to help one eliminate/cure their disease. So, thank you for continuing to post your information and please provide feedback regarding this post.

SW

[YouKayBee]

It's actually very simple. TSM allows weaning away from the daily EtOH habit. Reduces the "brief, short lived" perceived pleasure of Alcohol. Without that to entice you into drinking more, you DON'T want to drink.

What isn't clear to many is that that the short journey into alcohol buzz and escape is NEVER predictable and leads to disaster. Ultimately no one benefits from excessive drinking.

What is clear is that the buzz is not important, so why pursue it ? It never lasts anyway.

Following TSM has led to true indifference (no cravings, no feeling deprived, no "wishing" to have "just one"), because you realize it just isn't something you care to do anymore.

If you choose to drink in a reasonable mature way, never to excess, it is OK to do so.

Society has taught us that fun and excitement are just not possible without drinking (sports, music, parties, vacations, ad nauseum). When the inherent fallacy of that is evident (who likes the drunk friend repeating himself all night at the party, or the louts at the game), the behavior changes.

Regarding the "lifelong abstinence" idea, how can stopping the alcohol parade be the only prison where you count the days since you're "released". Sounds like your right back in another prison.

At this point, I can choose to drink (almost never want to), and not worry about it.

......and I have chosen not to drink. Being AF isn't a prison, it doesn't stop me from doing anything. If I want to I am ok going to pubs and bars but most of the time I am not interested and far too busy doing other things. Staying up late at night isn't compatible with my activities the following morning. I like sleeping and cuddling people close to me. No booze required. I do go clubbing, dance without booze (or any other drugs), go out for meals and drink fizzy water. I meet friends in coffee bars because I am not interested in pubs.............friends who come out with me during the day, well I'm more interested in whatever we are doing and we don't go in bars or beer tents. Not because "I cannot", but because it's sort of like "I have no need to go in there, nothing of interest" a bit like not going in fishing tackle shops because I do not fish and have no interest.

I've probably broken the society programming which convinces you that alcohol is necessary for life!

[YouKayBee]

There is no complicated secret SW and I'm not interested in picking it to bits. Without the drive to drink, without the addiction there is freedom.

No one tells me not to drink, I just don't want to. I want the escape but not the consequences, which includes feeling sick when I think about going into a pub and taking a sip of a pint of cider.

Yeauck.

I think I am the first person to have been pub deaddicted!

[YouKayBee]

E

Yeah UKB, with TSM you are free.

The prison comment referenced referred to going totally abstinent without any deconditioning etc., which I think is super hard to do. It's way preferable to just not really want to drink, because alcohol is not the forbidden fruit anymore.

I visited Scotland and London this summer, and I cannot imagine trying to live in your land without a drink in your hand.

You obviously only saw the touristy bits, and even in those areas there are plenty of coffee shops.

[Otter]

The problem I have with TSM is that it is for people who I would describe as having a "drink problem" which they want to get under control. Anyone who can organize themselves to take a pill an hour before their regular drinking session so as to lessen their desire to drink and then get their drinking under control is not nearing death by any means or in the same category as the millions of people who die each year from alcohol related illness. TSM, to me is a helping hand for those who would probably be able to stop drinking by themselves without medication. For those who are down in the gutter with this illness, I just can't see how it would work or why any doctor would consider it. It would be a waste of time for anyone who was drinking a litre of spirits a day, starting in the morning and drinking solidly. People in this category need to get off drink altogether as many are either suffering from liver disease or on the verge of getting it. Certainly, the gastroenterologists that I know don't use naltrexone and I don't expect they will use Nalmafene.

TSM reminds me of RU21 which is marketed as being invented by the Russians to allow spies to stay sober.http://www.ru21.com/index.php It is mainly Vitamin C and helps protect the liver against overindulgence. You don't get drunk so easily if you take it and don't ruin your liver. It's a nice gimmick and that is about all you can say for it. But hey, if it floats your boat, go for it.

[YouKayBee]

Yeah I wasn't a proper alcoholic, I could have stopped without medication if I had tried.