Skullbaby's Progress

[spiritwolf333]

Skullbaby's Progress

Skull -Keep on rocking on

Skull -wow. I have not been on mwo much lately and I decided to log on. Great to hear from you and your update. If you are not careful, you might just start loving this sobriety stuff.

You mention making amends with your best friend. That reminded me of several occasions when I attempted to make amends. On a few of these occasions, the people I tried to apologize to did not even remember what the hell I was talking about. Funny how I can build incidents up in my mind-massage them-feed them-watch them grow -and thats all that they are -falsehoods in my mind. I think this is one of the biggest challenges alcoholics (or potential alkies) have -conversations in our own heads. Add alcohol to our own conversations and you come out with a huge mess on your hands. Glad you reminded me.

Baclofen has changed my world -along with not drinking. Sounds like it has altered yours as well. How cool to be able to stay somewhat calm in some of the most tense moments.

Please keep posting. I hope others will see and follow your story.

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

Boy, Spirit, it's really really true. I would have never admitted it at the time, mostly cuz I wouldn't have been aware of it... but when I was lost in the rabbit hole of my own head, I was being so incredibly emotional, oversensitive, irrational... making up fabrications or spinning mountains out of molehills. I've really become aware of how much more introspective and emotionally motivated I am, for better or worse, than most people I know. So many people just live life and don't sweat the small stuff, and are sometimes uncomfortable engaging in frank and honest conversations about emotional stuff. But that's totally the realm where I live. I sort of chuckle at myself... most male best friends can probably talk shit at eachother and not worry, and probably don't get too much into talks about their friendship, haha. Oh well I've always been a pretty over-sensitive cat, guess that's how I'm wired.

Anyway, it's really great to keep the perspective that most people just do what they do and it usually has nothing to do with you. That you're not the center of everyone's universe, and that even when things feel dark and chaotic and lonely, that "I am deeply okay no matter what". (A mantra I've taken to lately, in which I sometimes say to myself in a Stuart Smalley-like voice).

Hope you're well, Spirit!

spiritwolf333;1554851 wrote: Skull -wow. I have not been on mwo much lately and I decided to log on. Great to hear from you and your update. If you are not careful, you might just start loving this sobriety stuff.

You mention making amends with your best friend. That reminded me of several occasions when I attempted to make amends. On a few of these occasions, the people I tried to apologize to did not even remember what the hell I was talking about. Funny how I can build incidents up in my mind-massage them-feed them-watch them grow -and thats all that they are -falsehoods in my mind. I think this is one of the biggest challenges alcoholics (or potential alkies) have -conversations in our own heads. Add alcohol to our own conversations and you come out with a huge mess on your hands. Glad you reminded me.

Baclofen has changed my world -along with not drinking. Sounds like it has altered yours as well. How cool to be able to stay somewhat calm in some of the most tense moments.

Please keep posting. I hope others will see and follow your story.

[lamela]

Skullbaby's Progress

Skull you seem to be doing very well. I haven't read your whole tread and don't know if you have hit you "switch" as they say. I curious as to why you are currently using Antabuse if so. I'm under the impression that when indifference kicks you basically loss the taste to drink?

[Mandiekinz]

Skullbaby's Progress

Skullbaby, I really admire your willingness and openness to new perspectives and changes. It really takes that ability in this new journey of ours. To be able to set aside what's rattling your head and just listen to people and take their advice and own up to our own faults and to move forward.

I'm happy for you, you seem like a real stand up guy with tons of great values and morals. You're doing so great by moving forward and leaving the past where it lies.

Also, I finally replied. Cheers, my friend.

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

Lamela- as I understand it, "the switch" is different for everyone- for some people the switch is like a lightbulb, for others a slow, subconscious change. I'm not sure if I have hit the switch yet or not- if I have, it's definitely a slow subtle change that occured in the background. I won't know until after my 60 days AF, if I do my drinking experiment and take a drink or two, and see how it hits me- craving for more, or indifference, or even revulsion? We'll see. In the meantime, I'd decided to give myself at least 30 days AF (now increased to 60) because I'd read others post that sometimes a stretch of AF time can really help bac "take root" and be more effective. We'll see if that's the case... if not, I'll adjust as needed and most likely titrate up to a higher baclofen dose and then reassess.

EDIT- to clarify about using the baclofen and antabuse together while on my 60-day AF stretch- The baclofen has been very effective at minimizing the physical cravings. However, I still had the habitual thoughts to deal with-- my brain would often trick me by saying things like "wow, what a nice day... let's enjoy it with a couple beers". (and of course "a couple" would always end up as 10+). Not that I was craving it hardcore, but more like the years of habit would pop up in my head. So, I decided to take the Antabuse to take away that possibility, thereby killing those thoughts alltogether. So, I'd describe it as baclofen for the physical cravings, and antabuse for the habitual thoughts. I know it's kind of a lot of medications, and it might not work for everyone, but it's working well for me. It should be noted that when i DO go back to trying out drinking (hopefully in moderation), I will obviously need to make sure all the AB is completely out of my system, and I will be pairing the careful drinking with TSM/Naltrexone. My thread has more details in its earlier posts if you're interested.

It's also worth noting that I'm doing full blood panels about every other month, particularly liver and kidneys, since the antabuse and baclofen, respectively, are processed through them. I also routinely check Vit B, D, testosterone, CRP, cholesterol, and blood pressure. Sigh... I'm becoming so OCD about my health... oh well I'm cool with that So far the panels have been pretty good, just a slight elevation in some areas to keep an eye on.

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

Thanks Mandie, for the kind words- I appreciate the support. Just a few weeks ago, when I was posting about how hurt and lonely and sad everything seemed, all I wanted to do was hold on to that hurt... it was words by you and by others here that helped me to see the needed perspective, and ultimately confront those challenges head on, and I'm now much much better for it. I almost feel like I'm doing my own version of a couple of the AA steps, such as making ammends.. but in my own way and time, and that's good enough for me

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

Update- Just for fun, to pat myself on the back...

I fear I may sound like the cliche macho gym guy ("Duuuude... what do ya bench?") but I'm down more than 20 pounds on the scale, having lost some fat around my face, neck, and gut, while putting on muscle. I've recently hit personal bests on all my lifts. I did 2 sets of 7 reps, of 225 lbs on my deadlift yesterday... I'm super sore. But happy that I'm more than halfway to Hugh Jackman's record... only without the toe shoes

Hugh Jackman (a.k.a. The Wolverine): Lean, Ripped, and Deadlifting 350+ in Toe Shoes

I'm just happy with any progress... I'm tired of being a fat, lazy, sick drunk.

[tm1200]

Skullbaby's Progress

Skull. I'm tortures with anxiety. From the physical to the mental side of things. I'm currently on 90mg of Baclofen and its helping me a lot. Baclofen in my few had many different ways of helping people. The so called switch is not the be all and end all imo.
if you get there all well and good but I believe its a way of cutting back the crazy craving some like myself get.

If If I have 3 beer instead of 30 then thats a plus. I really truly believe that Bac isn't the cure that some believe in (just like TSM) but if it helps you stay alive then f**k me... isn't it a cure in itself???

I had a chat with my mum a few days back and she said... maybe if you cam just have a few then its better that getting shit faced.

I've always wanted to be abstinence.... maybe some day I will but I'll take 2-3 beer at the minute tbh. Its better than lying gin the gutter isn't it????

[neophyte]

Skullbaby's Progress

skullbabyland - The switch, if you can call it htat for me so far, has been a dial down of cravings, i still get fleeting thoughts where i want a tall glass of vodka and to smash it down in 30 seconds (my modus operandi of drinking). It was like you say a sublte change in the background , i was drinking more because out of habit of 5 years than pure addiction. I was scared to go AF, but when i did i found it was easy. I dont know if ive hit my switch but i still have an opiate addiction which i would like to hit the switch on that one too. In a sense, its kind of like the alcohol addiction in that i kind of dont feel the NEED to consume codeine anymore but i still do out of habit. going cold turkey though isnt something i can do, i need to gradually go down. For now im dealing with the booze.

Like you im doing 30 days AF to see how baclofen effects me, im hoping i too feel revulsion at the thought of alcohol.

Your experience of drinking out of habit, and thinking youll just have 3 which turns into 10 was exactly my experience. if my experience is anything to by, then going AF is the way to go. Try and get some valium or a benzo to tie you over for a couple of days if you are scared. just dont over do it. (im no dr this is just my opinion)

It's fantastic to hear about your gym success, i love deadlifting. I'm a bit of a gym rat myself. Back when i was was sober i was able to lift 160kg deadlift, 125kg bench and 130kg squat all for 5 reps. after years of alcohol abuse, i struggle to put 80kgs up on the bench. So im really excited to hear about baclofen and its effect on exersize and how it can help my ju jitsu especially.

tm1200 - like i was saying to skull, when i was drinking i read that people on baclofen could drink a couple and then be done with it, that wasnt my experience, when i start drinking even on baclofen. I keep drinking and it was actually worse then before i started baclofen, i was downing 2 bottles of wine when normally i would only drink 1 bottle plus 1/3 of another of white wine. Only going AF did it really start working.

its all still early days for me though, only day 6 AF and ive had a few days of valium to help with the first few days which were scary. I saw a shadow man run into my room on day two of WD. i fear that if i keep drinking then the next time i go through WD im going to get full on delirium tremens due to kindling

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

TM- I'm sorry to hear that you're dealing with so much anxiety, but very glad to hear that Baclofen sounds like it's helping a lot.

Certainly "the switch" is not necessarily the be-all and end-all, it's just handy to use as a reference point since so many regard it as such. If you're rocking 3 beers instead of 30 that's of course amazing progress and a great place to be! I for one could hardly ever stop at 3... I'd just keep going. As I mentioned earlier in my thread, sometime after my 60 days AF, I'll be doing a controlled experiment to see where I'm at in regards to baclofen vs. alcoholic drinking.

Good on you, TM, for sticking with the baclofen treatment and keep it up! Nothing wrong with enjoying 2-3 beers and calling it a night, if you're able to! Great job Is the anxiety you mentioned getting any better, and are you doing anything specific to deal with it?

tm1200;1556012 wrote: Skull. I'm tortures with anxiety. From the physical to the mental side of things. I'm currently on 90mg of Baclofen and its helping me a lot. Baclofen in my few had many different ways of helping people. The so called switch is not the be all and end all imo.
if you get there all well and good but I believe its a way of cutting back the crazy craving some like myself get.

If If I have 3 beer instead of 30 then thats a plus. I really truly believe that Bac isn't the cure that some believe in (just like TSM) but if it helps you stay alive then f**k me... isn't it a cure in itself???

I had a chat with my mum a few days back and she said... maybe if you cam just have a few then its better that getting shit faced.

I've always wanted to be abstinence.... maybe some day I will but I'll take 2-3 beer at the minute tbh. Its better than lying gin the gutter isn't it????

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

Neo- thanks for the post mate. Great to hear how well your first week AF went. Be sure to keep posting throughout the 30 days! Great to hear that your cravings have diminished. As for the codeine-- is codeine an opiate? If so, you might look into Naltrexone/TSM- the method that is effective for many people with both alcohol and opiates. There are some doctors that use baclofen and naltrexone together, which is how I started my so-far-successful sobriety a few months ago (more info earlier in my thread if you're interested).

As for the valium/benzo you mentioned-- for the last year or two, I would occassionally pop a xanax on hungover days to help me deal with the anxiety etc. I'd do this maybe 2 or 3 times a month. I'd heard that xanax withdrawal is so nightmarish that I was scared off and never did more than that. As for now, so far on my 38 days AF, I've been able to maintain without any extra medication such as valium etc., though that's keeping in mind that I'm already pretty heavily medicated on a daily basis with my antidepressant effexor, plus baclofen, antabuse, and the others such as thyroid, blood pressure, supplements, etc. I hope to gradually reduce some of these as I get healthier.

While I didn't experience too harsh of alcohol withdrawals, I know some people are not so lucky. I do certainly recognize the potential of those meds, in controlled doses, helping with early al withdrawals, which I know are no joke...

Cool to hear about your fitness experience- I myself am interested in both BJJ and Krav. I'm going to try them both out when I get settled in my new city. How far along are you in BJJ?

neophyte;1556080 wrote: skullbabyland - The switch, if you can call it htat for me so far, has been a dial down of cravings, i still get fleeting thoughts where i want a tall glass of vodka and to smash it down in 30 seconds (my modus operandi of drinking). It was like you say a sublte change in the background , i was drinking more because out of habit of 5 years than pure addiction. I was scared to go AF, but when i did i found it was easy. I dont know if ive hit my switch but i still have an opiate addiction which i would like to hit the switch on that one too. In a sense, its kind of like the alcohol addiction in that i kind of dont feel the NEED to consume codeine anymore but i still do out of habit. going cold turkey though isnt something i can do, i need to gradually go down. For now im dealing with the booze.

Like you im doing 30 days AF to see how baclofen effects me, im hoping i too feel revulsion at the thought of alcohol.

Your experience of drinking out of habit, and thinking youll just have 3 which turns into 10 was exactly my experience. if my experience is anything to by, then going AF is the way to go. Try and get some valium or a benzo to tie you over for a couple of days if you are scared. just dont over do it. (im no dr this is just my opinion)

It's fantastic to hear about your gym success, i love deadlifting. I'm a bit of a gym rat myself. Back when i was was sober i was able to lift 160kg deadlift, 125kg bench and 130kg squat all for 5 reps. after years of alcohol abuse, i struggle to put 80kgs up on the bench. So im really excited to hear about baclofen and its effect on exersize and how it can help my ju jitsu especially.

tm1200 - like i was saying to skull, when i was drinking i read that people on baclofen could drink a couple and then be done with it, that wasnt my experience, when i start drinking even on baclofen. I keep drinking and it was actually worse then before i started baclofen, i was downing 2 bottles of wine when normally i would only drink 1 bottle plus 1/3 of another of white wine. Only going AF did it really start working.

its all still early days for me though, only day 6 AF and ive had a few days of valium to help with the first few days which were scary. I saw a shadow man run into my room on day two of WD. i fear that if i keep drinking then the next time i go through WD im going to get full on delirium tremens due to kindling

[skullbabyland]

Skullbaby's Progress

Quick update... Day 38 AF. Currently at 90mg baclofen/day.

Copy/pasted from my comments in another thread-

Well, I've gotta renew my vigilance, as the last couple days I found myself entertaining the notion of drinking again. My GF and I are moving to a new city at the end of the month, and I'll be saying goodbye to a handful of family and friends... That addict voice in my head that enjoys beer ("enjoys" being a slight understatement) was like... "let's go off the Antabuse now, so at the end of the month we'll be clear to drink at the goodbye parties... they'll be boring otherwise." I even found myself omitting my antabuse the last two nights.

Today I pretty well snapped out of it. I'll be taking my antabuse again tonight. I'll just take the boring goodbye parties, bc my life is so much better and more manageable otherwise, without drinking.

I've also noticed the Pavlovian response that I literally salivate at times when thinking of drinking beer (I also get this when thinking of bread/sugar/pizza/donuts, haha). I do think the baclofen is working well for cravings, but I'm carefully monitoring these things just in case I need to titrate up my dose again.

The other feeling that I can describe is that some days (particularly the mornings when I wake up) I feel sad, guilty, shamed by thinking of all the stuff in my past I wish I could un-do. Some days I just seem to spin my wheels, thinking of all this terrible stuff over and over. Things can get rough emotionally sometimes when not drowning my emotions in poison. I'm working hard on forgiving my past self who was sick and drunk, and moving on to the present and future with as little guilt, sadness, and self-loathing as I can. I try to keep reminding myself that I am not a failure, a fuckup, or a piece of shit. I am a good person who made mistakes while living as a sick drunk, and am now recovering.

I keep reminding myself of my mantras... "Strong and Positive". "I am deeply okay no matter what".

Health-wise, I've reached a milestone- I am now officially under the 200 lb mark! The scale read 198.8 today, so I'm successfully (slowly but surely) losing fat and keeping/gaining muscle. I'm going to keep restricting my carbs to the complex ones found in veggies until I reach my goal weight (down by 10 pound increments, to an ultimate goal of 180lbs, at which time I'll reassess). I'm eating a TON of veggies (kale, spinach, celery, carrots, cucumber, garlic, all in the form of my Hulk Juice) everyday for minerals and complex carbs plus protein/carb shakes as well as lean meats and healthy fats. Energy has been a little low yesterday and today, so I'm going to keep a close eye on that, and add some rice/sweet potatoes if needed.

My GF and a couple friends/family have commented that I'm looking slimmer and healthier... my GF says she's noticing I'm getting that "V" shape. Still got a lot of beergut to lose... but it's nice to hear those comments

The other big benefit to staying sober, of which there are many, is that I haven't had a cigarette either, in the 38 sober days. I'm 95% certain that when I try to drink again, I'll probably smoke again, so it feels good to stay away from that. I have to keep reminding myself of the truth- that for me, all good things come from staying AF, and likewise, all bad things come from being drunk.

Best to all.

[neophyte]

Skullbaby's Progress

Day 8

One of the best parts of my day is waking up in the morning, not feeling like shit and having crippling anxiety is euphoric in itself. That itself is starting to go into a norm now. Which is to be expected. I guess im turning into a normal person again

Another positive thing about being sober so far is that my passions have come back. My web development projects that never got anywhere, im working on them again, want to start new ones and catch up on new technologies. I want to exersize again more too. I've always loved exersize but when i was drinking it was more of an effort to stem the tide of me falling into an out of shape and not really loving it as much. Nothing I love more than lifting heavy shit and putting it back down again.

Skull - glad to see you're doing so well, i like seeing your progress. I will have to look into naltrexone, it was actually one of the drugs that interested me initially, however given it's an opiate receptor agonist it's going to throw me into a withdrawal immediately which I wanted to avoid. I prefer to taper off slowly, which ive done in the past when ive needed to travel where opiates = jail time. I am interested however in buprenorphine to get off the opiates which is something i might persue when ive been AF for a bit longer.

Thats good to hear you never got addicted to xanax, i was addicted to the stuff when i used it a few years ago. if you think booze addiction is unpleasant, benzo addiction is the horror, it took me 6 months to taper off and left me with GAD that didn't go away. I realy wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. They are excellent medications used in moderation however. Also great for a long flight where you just want to wake up at your destination

As to your other medication, the blood pressure might get better with AF time and an improvement in diet. What other supplements do you take? I'm a bit of a medication supplement nerd myself and take a variety of supplements plus 50mg of zoloft daily to help with my GAD. how does the effoxor compare? I've considered taking it as i hear its quite superior to other ADs.

As to martial arts, I'm a mere white belt in BJJ, i been training about 18 months, it can take up to 3 years to get to the next belt (blue), im probably pretty close. It's a very intense martial art. Unlike most other martial arts where you start off learning to attack, you spend the first 6 months getting your ass handed to you, to the point where you just dont want to come back. but then new people start coming and then you start to see your training come along. It's a very effective martial art because most people have no idea what to do when it comes to grappling and having someone in your personal space crushing your ability to breath. check out the early UFC fights to see how effective BJJ was against other martial arts.

As for Krav Maga, i tried that too for a few months, i'm not really a fan to be honest, its like most other martial arts where there is a lot of drilling with compliant partners and no real hard sparing. Which you cant really do with Krav because its striking and everyone would just wreck each other. That said, there are some good things bout it, like the psychological aspects on ho to deal with potential violent situations, how to deescalate etc. Also some cool stuff on how to disarm knives and guns. but my vote is bjj all the way

I hope to lower my bac dose down once i am 100% confident ive hit my switch, 90mg would be a great dose to be at.

As to moving away, its one of those circumstances where a drink or two would be nice but you've come so far, and to be honest when i go out now i enjoy myself a lot more when im not drinking (so far). I'm actually a lot more of an asset to the party than when im a tired drunk, so try and stick with it, it will be a massive accomplishment if you can stay AF on your going away party.

Why are you moving away if you dont mind me asking and where are you moving to? I have always had a difficult time making friends and suffer from social anxiety, moving to me is as scary as it gets. I need the friends and family i have here now. Best of luck to you and your endeavors.

Funny what you say about salivating, when i've tried going AF before, the days when i was AF i would literally hold my head over the toilet and saliva would flow like a tap when i was thinking of booze. Thats no exaggeration.

Good to hear about your weight goals as well, like i said in a prior post im a bit of a gym rat, i found a ketogenic diet was a really good way to lose weight effortlessly, have a look into it, it might actually help out with blood pressure and other medical problems. It's not a cheap diet though so i had to stop for financial reasons.

And i love that V shape, when the aerodynamics are right you can start flying around the place :whee:

[Mandiekinz]

Skullbaby's Progress

Excellent insight Neo. I'm really glad you're finally giving yourself some AF time. Also, from reading on here and doing some of my own research, I've noted great outcomes from people using Ibogaine to get off the opiates without withdrawals or cravings within 24 hours. It's quite extreme however, I find it quite fascinating. Something to maybe look into? The legalities differ from country to country...I believe it's actually only illegal and schedules in the US and a very few other countries.

Skull, I hope that you weren't stopping the Antabuse b/c of what I said in the PM. I was simply implying that drinking, for me, is no longer a fear. If you're feeling eager to drink, than your "switch" must not be there yet. Are you still moving up in dosage with your Bac? I would fear taking Antabuse with the desire to really drink. I, myself, would definitely test those waters and land myself in the hospital. I would say it's pretty NORMAL to want a celebratory drink here and there.

I'm really glad you're setting goals and reaching them! It's an exhilarating feeling! Do keep in mind that drinking can and will set you back on those goals. Nothing like being depressed that you drank, then eating crap food and not working out for two days to add on to feeling even more crappy. hah...it's just a huge spiral of SHIT. Gross.

Keep posting. As you can see there are many people here that thoroughly enjoy what you have to say and are inspired by them.

[neophyte]

Skullbaby's Progress

Mandiekinz - I actually did look into ibogaine, its easy to get on silkroad, but expensive. The reason i did not pursue it, is that there carries a risk of death with the treatment, and there arnt really enough studies to back it for me to take the plunge which such risks.

I read a story about a guy in france who reached the switch with codeine, he was using it for anxiety as i do. So I'm hoping i can achieve the same thing. In fact i dont even really enjoy the codeine like i did before, i do it out of habit, k ind of like how i was with alcohol before i went AF. though with codeine i would prefer to taper off. Giving AF some time before i even think about dropping off the codeine.

I enjoy all the posts here, keep posting everyone, its all inspiring.