Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

    Hi,

    I started on Baclofen on Friday 31st May 2013 after receiving 20 * 10 25 mg tablets from Alldaychemist.com (Liofen 25). The reason I went for 25mg tablets instead of 10mg is that I travel around a lot and don't want to carry so many tablets.

    I found the tablets pretty hard to divide. I tried a razor blade to cut them in quarters but this resulted in a lot of crumbling and uneven pieces. I found the best result was just to snap the using my fingers. Splitting into anything smaller than quarters was pretty impossible. So anyway:

    Day 1 - took 18.75mg divided between morning, midday and mid evening (1 quarter tablet each time). I was quite hung over that day, there was definitely a noticeable effect - I felt a bit better than I expected considering hangover, a bit calmer and slight spaced out/drugged effect but very slight. (alcohol consumed 0)

    Day 2 - Same regime except I took a full 25 mg tablet divided into 4 quarters at 4 roughly equally spaced points during the day - . Felt similar effects to Day 1. Had feeling of not being able to keep eyes open before bed. Had very vivid dreams. Alcohol consumed 0.

    Day 3 (Sunday) - Took 37.5mg in 4 doses (doses later in the day higher than those earlier). When I woke up that morning I felt like I needed to take another dose as had a slighly anxious feeling. Anyway this day I had a absolutely massive amount of stress because my wife has some emotional problems and she decided to have an 'episode' this day which culminated with the police being called after she ran out of the house threatening to kill herself in the evening. I handled it pretty well - I didn't get annoyed or shout despite being screamed at. In the morning (after the first part of the argument) I drove for 3 hours after taking one of the doses. Initially driving I felt a bit spaced out. I stopped at the services and smoked a cigarette which really went to my head. After about an hour it settled down and I seemed to get to a 'sweet spot' where my mind was very relaxed without being monged out. I was enjoying driving and just being alive in a way I rarely experience. If I was to compare with another drug, I would say a bit like amphetamines (I am told) are like. I think it must have been something to do with Baclofen, although it was the first really nice sunny day of the year which helped too! (Alcohol consumed - drank a half bottle of Smirnoff after the police episode. I doubt I would have gone out and bought it but it was in the house).

    Day 4 - took 50mg divided into 4 doses. Woke up at 7am feeling much better than I had a right to after drinking half a bottle of vodka and having had about 5 hours sleep. A bit later I drove to the airport. These week-days are the real test for me - I travel abroad may weeks to Oslo and stay in a hotel monday until thursday. Many days after work I will so straight to the off-license and get some hard liquor. At its worst I was drinking a bottle (75cl) of vodka or a bit more each night although recently I hadn't been quite so bad. After taking each bac dose I didn't feel wonderful, not awful but a bit withdrawn and tense. Again I experienced a 'sweet spot' some time after taking a dose but not as great as on the day before. I didn't rush to the off-license after work but I did drink with colleagues about 5 pints of lager and then had 2 cans in my room. This is quite a low amount for me in these nights I stay in the hotel. I felt like the alcohol went to my head and had a bigger effect than normal that made me not drink so much.

    Day 5 - Took 75mg divided into roughly equal doses but took bigger doses later in the day. In the morning I woke up with a start and felt brilliant for about 1 minute, very alert. Then I saw a shimmering figure like a small boy sat on a stool by the curtains. I thought 'wow nice hallucination' and quite enjoyed it. However soon after I started to feel panicky. I assumed that the bac had worn of and I should take some more which I did and it got a lot better. However this worried me a lot in itself that a drug could affect me this much and I could become so dependent on it so quickly. This day I was teaching a training course. Generally before teaching a training course I take some sort of benzodiazapine (very low dose), but this time I wasn't nervous at all so I didn't bother. However when I started the course I started sweating and stumbling over my words so I nipped out and took 1/2mg of Clonazepam. This took a while to kick in but after about 30 minutes I felt absolutely fine.
    In the evening I drank the other 4 beers from the 6 pack I bought the night before.

    Day 6 - Took 100 mg divided into equal doses. Felt extremely tired all day and not particularly brilliant - just felt quite uncomfortable in the office. After work, a fair bit to drink. 5-6 pints, a couple glasses of wine and then I emptied the mini-bar before bed (3 miniature bottles of wine together = 1 bottles of normal wine). This amount of alcohol would be fairly typical for me normally (equivalent of about 2 and a bit bottles of wine overall).

    Day 7 - Took about 75 mg. I had to get up at 6am to catch a plane. Felt bloody awful in the morning. Slept on the plane a bit and felt a bit better. I started the bac doses like the day before. I wanted to stabilize at 100mg for a while when I was back at home and unlikely to drink. I never got there, in the evening after taking the last dose upto 75mg I started to feel extremely bad. Very agitated, could not sit still, had chest pains, racing and irregular heartbeat, If I did stop moving I kept falling asleep for a few seconds and the waking up with a start again and again. I took 1mg of Clonazepam and felt a lot better after about 1 hour.

    Day 8 (today). Decided to carry on but I'm going down to 50mg. I have taken half of it so far. I feel a bit tired today and not finding it very easy to motivate myself but otherwise ok.


    I am wondering if it could have been the drinking the night before in combination with the bac which caused my problems on Day 7. I hear people on here talking about drinking quite a lot while on Bac as if its ok, but thinking about it surely it isn't??

    I have found that Bac feels almost exactly like GBL/GHB (I also tried it for suppressing the desire to drink a while ago when it was legal in this country). The feeling and side effects are really uncannily similar. Drinking while on GHB can cause death, so why is it ok when taking Bac?

    #2
    Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

    I'm new so I would listen to some old timers, but u r upping ur doses very fast.
    When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

    Comment


      #3
      Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

      Hi Rupert, welcome!

      Same as JDizzle- I'm also new-- but from what I've read here on MWO, you are titrating very fast, and it sounds like you're getting the accompanying SE's.

      I myself am titrating very slowly because I don't tolerate SE's well (they mess with my sleep). I know some other MWOers have titrated very fast, some with good results but some with bad results. I'm sure that the old timers will chime in here soon...

      Anyway best of luck to you!

      Comment


        #4
        Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

        Well done Rupert, glad to see you sallying forth on your baclofen voyage and not pansying around with pathetic 5 mg increases every second year like some of the totty round here do. Try to stick with the dose though and don't drop down once you're up. Yes, there will be side effects associated with a rapid titration but then again there will be side effects with any titration!

        Eyes on the prize and all that.

        Tally ho!!!!!
        "My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them." Jack Kerouac

        Comment


          #5
          Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

          Hi,

          Thanks, yes I thought I might be going a bit fast. Maybe I should pre-divide all my tablets into quarters so I can go up more gradually. To be honest one of the reasons I went up so fast is that I'm travelling around and carrying a load of crumbly quarter tablets wouldn't work too well. Anyway hopefully one of the old timers will reply like you say.

          Some more background if you're interested. I am a binge drinker, have been to some extent since I was about 20 and possibly earlier. I'm 41 now and I drank on average 2 times a week since then. It was something like a bottle of wine an 2-4 beers each time. If I was going out it could be a lot more but mostly it was drinking on my own. Then I started getting more and more high pressure jobs a few years back and the drinking exploded. Being a travelling contract worker staying in hotels, its just too tempting.

          I've also tried the following drugs and vitamins:

          Campral - good drug I think. If I wasn't travelling and working away it generally worked for me. I didn't feel great on it - generally felt a bit tense but that's probably more a side effect of not drinking.

          Naltrexone - I expected this one to work and the problem with it is that it does work. It significantly reduced the enjoyment of drinking for me. The problem is that you have to take it about 1 hour before you start drinking and when I've got the that stage (planning to drink in 1 hr) I make sure I'm going to enjoy it, so this tablet never got took after the first couple of times.

          Kudzu - did nothing

          High dose Niacin - did nothing

          L-Glutamine - did nothing

          Some others I can't remember.

          Comment


            #6
            Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

            Hi, Rupert,

            I'm fairly new with bac too. I started in mid Dec 2012. I titrated slowly--went up by 10 mgs every fourth day. There were SEs for sure.

            I had that sweet spot for my entire first month and I hit my switch early at 80 mgs.

            I didn't over drink so I can't address that, but if I had 3 drinks I had to nap and had daymares.

            My input would be to slow down your titration. Be more methodical about it. You may unnecessarily go past your switch and I don't know many who want to take more bac then they need. Other than that I have nothing except welcome to bac world!

            Comment


              #7
              Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

              Hi, Rupert. Honestly, I hesitate to weigh in because I can't tell where you're coming from in terms of experience with baclofen. Have you read much about it? Do you have a goal in mind?

              Rupert;1516834 wrote:
              I am wondering if it could have been the drinking the night before in combination with the bac which caused my problems on Day 7. I hear people on here talking about drinking quite a lot while on Bac as if its ok, but thinking about it surely it isn't??

              I have found that Bac feels almost exactly like GBL/GHB (I also tried it for suppressing the desire to drink a while ago when it was legal in this country). The feeling and side effects are really uncannily similar. Drinking while on GHB can cause death, so why is it ok when taking Bac?
              The way you felt on day 7 could have been related to any number of things. Drinking among them. (It makes just about everything worse, doesn't it? So it stands to reason...) Generally titration is employed, and the approximate standard (as tho there's an actual standard among this group!) is oh, 5-30mg/day to start, increasing 10-20mg every 3-7 days. So even by speedy titrations, yours is...extremely fast. It might be a good idea to read around here a bit, including the prescription guide (or whatever it's titled) from the French docs that Otter so nicely translated for our benefit.

              I also don't know much about GHB except that there was some research that indicated it could be very helpful for drunks looking to get un-drunk. Til they figured out it has abuse potential, and is pretty fun to boot, and is really bad in combination with booze. Don't have to be a neuroscientist to figure out that isn't going to work out very well!

              I think it works in a similar-ish way, but very differently. Whatever the case, I drank alcoholically while taking baclofen for 4 months and I'm still here and whole (2 years later). I don't recommend it because the hangovers are brutal, but there you go. I suppose the pertinent information is that I stopped drinking alcoholically a little over 2 years ago, because the little pill works. It's not candy, though, and would be wise to bone up on some baclofen basics.

              Good luck, Rupert.

              Comment


                #8
                Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                Hi Rupert,

                That's an interesting way to start taking baclofen. What I would do if I were in your shoes is take them off, and relax. If you can cope with 100, I would stay there for a few days, and then add 25 (another pill) every 4 or 5 days. If 100 is kicking you too hard, try 75 or 50, just a number that doesn't involve splitting the damn things.

                Best of luck.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                  Welcome to the forum.

                  I am taking the same exact pills. I have found that the best way to split them is with a very sharp razor blade. I line up the blade carefully with the split mark on the pill using one hand, and I use my other thumb and forefingers to gently pinch the pill together. I hold the blade perpendicular to the pill, but with the cutting edge at a very slight angle, so that I begin cutting one side first. Holding the blade firmly, I chop down in one swift, steady motion. I then use the same method to split the halves into quarters. This has minimized the amount of crumbling and uneven breaks that I was getting before. With some practice, I now split the pills very cleanly nine times out of ten. A sharp razor blade is crucial. Buy a fresh pack of them.

                  Hangovers exacerbate baclofen side effects significantly. Benzos work to reduce hangover symptoms because they have a similar effect to alcohol on your brain, which is why you experience relief after taking clonazepam. I also have a prescription for that, and when I wake up after a 12+ drink night and feel like death, I will often take 0.5 mg and feel much better an hour later. The hangover-amplified SEs are usually a good motivation to help keep your alcohol intake down. I know that for me, I can often talk myself out of going for one last drink before bed by thinking about how much worse it will make me feel in the morning compared to how little it will make me feel better after I drink it.

                  The fastest rate of increase that I have been able to tolerate so far has been 1/4 of a 25 mg pill every day (44 mg/week), which I maintained for 18 days and went from 94 to 200 mg/day before the SEs caught up with me and I had to stop increasing my dose. A pattern that worked well for me was to take an equal dose five times per day, and then on each following day, increase one of those doses by 1/4 pill, until I had brought all the doses up to the same level, and then repeating that pattern. That way, I was never dramatically increasing my dose on any day. I would much rather add 1/4 pill daily than 25 mg every fourth day.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                    All I know about ghb is I had a partner when I was younger get all wacked out on that shit. He emptied the corporate account one day and sunk our company. I had another friend od one night on ghb and booze.... Not sure if any other drugs were involved. He was revived and lived. I have nothing else to offer on ghb except... Drugs r bad m'kay.
                    When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                      The only thing that classes GBL/GHB and Baclofen together is that they're both classed as GABA-b agonists. That's where the similarly ends imo. A bit like the way benzo's and alcohol are both classed as GABA-α agonists. Alcohol is a lot more complicated as is GBL.

                      When I used it it was super euphoric. All the good feeling of booze, benzo's and opitate's mixed in. The bad side is the rebound effect or dopamine rebound I think its called where you can't sleep when coming off it so you up your dose to get knocked out for a few hours hence where the viscous cycle begins.

                      Baclofen is more targeted on what it does hence it not having addiction potential imo.

                      GBL/GHB + Booze = no no
                      Benzo's + Opiates = no no
                      Booze + Baclofen = Bad hangover

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                        I just want to point out that I never did have worsened hangovers with baclofen. It seems to have become an unquestioned truth that baclofen + alcohol equals terrible hangovers and worse side effects. Neither of those things were true in my case.

                        It just goes to prove that chemicals affect us all differently because our neurochemistry is not uniform.
                        "My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them." Jack Kerouac

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                          man on mars;1517073 wrote: Welcome to the forum.

                          I am taking the same exact pills. I have found that the best way to split them is with a very sharp razor blade. I line up the blade carefully with the split mark on the pill using one hand, and I use my other thumb and forefingers to gently pinch the pill together. I hold the blade perpendicular to the pill, but with the cutting edge at a very slight angle, so that I begin cutting one side first. Holding the blade firmly, I chop down in one swift, steady motion. I then use the same method to split the halves into quarters. This has minimized the amount of crumbling and uneven breaks that I was getting before. With some practice, I now split the pills very cleanly nine times out of ten. A sharp razor blade is crucial. Buy a fresh pack of them.

                          Hangovers exacerbate baclofen side effects significantly. Benzos work to reduce hangover symptoms because they have a similar effect to alcohol on your brain, which is why you experience relief after taking clonazepam. I also have a prescription for that, and when I wake up after a 12+ drink night and feel like death, I will often take 0.5 mg and feel much better an hour later. The hangover-amplified SEs are usually a good motivation to help keep your alcohol intake down. I know that for me, I can often talk myself out of going for one last drink before bed by thinking about how much worse it will make me feel in the morning compared to how little it will make me feel better after I drink it.

                          The fastest rate of increase that I have been able to tolerate so far has been 1/4 of a 25 mg pill every day (44 mg/week), which I maintained for 18 days and went from 94 to 200 mg/day before the SEs caught up with me and I had to stop increasing my dose. A pattern that worked well for me was to take an equal dose five times per day, and then on each following day, increase one of those doses by 1/4 pill, until I had brought all the doses up to the same level, and then repeating that pattern. That way, I was never dramatically increasing my dose on any day. I would much rather add 1/4 pill daily than 25 mg every fourth day.
                          Thanks everyone who replied!

                          I've just ordered a pill cutter and a pill box. So I plan to pre-divide a few tablets into quarters and then take the quarters 1 by one at intervals. I will probably set a vibrating alarm at the appropriate intervals on my phone. I decided against taking whole tablets (or even half) for now in one go, it seems to have a fairly instant brain fogging effect on me when I do that and I have to wait a while to feel good again. The pills are difficult to divide though, I was using a japanese Feather razor blade which are one of the sharpest in the world and still couldn't stop them crumbling - I guess I didn't get the right technique.

                          Regarding hangovers - the first few times I drank when I started taking bac I felt significantly better than I would normally expect. It was only that one day so far that it was worse.

                          I agree 0.5mg Clonazepam is amazing for hangovers. In fact amazing drug all around for things like job interviews and giving speeches or training courses. Good apart from the fact that I think it makes me drink more.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                            ifulovelife2;1517165 wrote: I just want to point out that I never did have worsened hangovers with baclofen. It seems to have become an unquestioned truth that baclofen + alcohol equals terrible hangovers and worse side effects. Neither of those things were true in my case.

                            It just goes to prove that chemicals affect us all differently because our neurochemistry is not uniform.
                            Yes, I felt better than expected the morning after the first few times. On my bad day, it was actually late evening when I started having the problems.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Started on Baclofen a few days ago - results so far and advice wanted.

                              john doe;1517136 wrote: The only thing that classes GBL/GHB and Baclofen together is that they're both classed as GABA-b agonists. That's where the similarly ends imo. A bit like the way benzo's and alcohol are both classed as GABA-α agonists. Alcohol is a lot more complicated as is GBL.

                              When I used it it was super euphoric. All the good feeling of booze, benzo's and opitate's mixed in. The bad side is the rebound effect or dopamine rebound I think its called where you can't sleep when coming off it so you up your dose to get knocked out for a few hours hence where the viscous cycle begins.

                              Baclofen is more targeted on what it does hence it not having addiction potential imo.

                              GBL/GHB + Booze = no no
                              Benzo's + Opiates = no no
                              Booze + Baclofen = Bad hangover
                              I agree about the super-euphoric effect of GBL/GHB initially, however I did find that if I took it 2-3 nights in a row I didn't get that and was left with something very similar to what I experienced with Bac in the first few days and the same as what I am experiencing now in many ways. I agree I didn't get anywhere near the high of taking GBL for the first time, but I did get a milder euphoria. I also noted the other similarities and differences:

                              Bac - got dopamine rebound the first couple of mornings (exactly the same feeling as with GBL). I think that's the reason why I didn't have such a booze hangover - dopamine does override hangover discomfort. I kept on taking Bac so I have no idea if its any different from the shittyness you would feel if you took GBL and didn't take another hit to get rid of the bad feelings. I generally took Clonazempam to sleep after getting the GBL dopamine rebound, and I've had to do the same thing a few times already because of Bac. I didn't find GBL addictive at all, I stopped it easily and I feel like stopping Bac for similar reasons but I am going to follow through with it because of all the good things I've heard. Right down to very subtle things I found Bac very similar to GBL - the dull headache right at the back of my head, the micro sleeps and waking up with a sudden jolt, aggitation, subtle things like breathing feeling different, different awarenesses of things. All shared between GBL and Bac and not shared with anything else I've ever tried.

                              Things I found different - not as euphoric as already said, GBL made my liver hurt like mad. Hangovers from GBL were very bad. I can't say for Bac as I have never stopped taking it, although Clonazepam does help with the bad effects I had from both GBL and Bac. I am not going to make a habit of taking that though.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X