Drunk by Choice?

[Colin]

Drunk by Choice?

Moved this post to Whiplash' thread. Sorry JDizzle.

[JDizzle]

Drunk by Choice?

oh yuck!!! The disease/allergy debate? I never was ok with the disease concept only because cancer is a disease and it always felt arrogant to compare ourselves with someone suffering from that. I always felt that no matter how much I understood the phenomenon of craving in my personal life, it still had to do with me being weak minded (take that with a grain of salt...I know I am different from normal drinkers). I did buy into this ... "We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and occurs in the average temperate drinker". The reason I buy into that is because I talked to a guy one time about it (actually same sponsor) and he is allergic to tomatoes, wheat, and dairy.... so he has big cravings for pizza. That always made sense to me and I am all for keeping it simple. So, the big question, why do I take Baclofen... I take Baclofen because I am sick and tired of going out to have a couple of drinks and ending up drinking 20 and getting strung out on coke, being an asshole to everyone I love, and contemplating ending my suffering because life is so unmanageable. And as new as I am, and realizing I am speaking to an old timer, I believe Baclofen has given me a license to drink (If I want) and it seems to have given you that same license. So saying I don't have to drink but I can if I chose, but it doesn't give me a license to do that is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. People are not coming here with end results in mind, they are trying to end their suffering.... the same as people don't go to the rooms to get a spiritual awakening... the just don't want their spouse to leave or don't want to ruin their career. I can tell you, for me, if I would not have read that you could still drink socially on this pill, I would have never searched for it. That is the ONLY thing that was appealing to me. If I wanted to never drink again, I know where AA meetings are. I was not interested in that. The interesting part was being normal for the first time in my life. I actually attribute my last few years of not being able to get back into meetings to me researching medication and knowing that a cure (I use that term whenever... I know what cure means when I say it) was close. To be honest, the past couple of years I have been staying out of AA because I was waiting for Baclofen to be approved for alcoholism. I went through hell waiting for what I have now. I am going to enjoy the equal amount of hell out of it. PS I didnt drink anything yesterday because it didn't cross my mind. Maybe I should post those days more, but they seem so boring to post about. In conclusion , I am not a wordist. I feel I am decently educated, so if anyone ever needs a definition from JD's World Dictionary, feel free to ask.

[MaryGoRound]

Drunk by Choice?

...be very careful. As far as I know there is no cure, only remission. Baclofen is a an excellent bandaid, but not a cure in a real sense. The other alternative is to stop.

I have yet to hear of someone who has turned "normal" after a treatment of Baclofen. You are in or out. The more you chose to indulge the more you push the envelop.

Yes, you can get a beautiful reprieve, but not a change in circuitry.

[Colin]

Drunk by Choice?

MaryGoRound;1518524 wrote: ...be very careful. As far as I know there is no cure, only remission. Baclofen is a an excellent bandaid, but not a cure in a real sense. The other alternative is to stop.

I have yet to hear of someone who has turned "normal" after a treatment of Baclofen. You are in or out. The more you chose to indulge the more you push the envelop.

Yes, you can get a beautiful reprieve, but not a change in circuitry.

Saint Olivier considers it to be a cure in the same way that insulin is a cure for diabetics.
He also considers himself "normal" in the sense that he can have a drink if he feels like it.

My own guess is that the circuitry will change if one stays on baclofen for an extended period but I don't really care one way or the other. Baclofen is heap good medicine.

[JDizzle]

Drunk by Choice?

I'm on Colin's train. I was thinking the same thing. The Doc said he was normal now. Most people in here drink from time to time. I'm about to totally destroy a 6 pack tonight for the Spurs-Heat game (probably will finish 2 and a half ).

And as for cure... I just don't put much stock into choosing my words carefully. I have been in and out of treatment for 20 years. I understand there is no cure. If I stop taking Bac, I will go back to being who I was. There is a lot of back and forth in here. People say the Bac will not just stop working one day, but then it is like be careful because it may not work. Whatever... I'm cured dude. GO SPURS!!!!!!!!!!!

[spiritwolf333]

Drunk by Choice?

Sounds like you are on track JDizzle -keep going (not to meetings-lol-jk steppers)

I am not quite sure what you call it either; cured, in remission, reduction, etc.,bla,bla, etc.:
What I do know is this: After only 70 days of baclofen in my system, I have absolutely zero cravings or desires for alcohol (only some minor thoughts). I don't desire (for the most part) what alcohol use to do for me. I've gone days in a row without a single alcohol thought. I look forward to tomorrow (at least most days) and I am not planning tonight when I plan to start drinking tomorrow.

My main thought for today and almost everyday is that the baclofen gods see fit to keep working in my body and brain.

Since the age of about 14, I don't recall many days where alcohol was not worshiped in some form by my brain. I don't know what the scientific or medical communities or the moral majority call this, but I call it A Hell Of A Great New Reality For Me. (And I am not destroying my body or brain cells (those that I have remaining) through the use of the toxin I used to worship)

Thanks for your post.

[JDizzle]

Drunk by Choice?

Man U know what(nice post btw wolf) I'm on beer 2 halfway through the game. I'm not on a good pace for my 6 pack. I'm actually thinking as I open a beer how people r sayin it may not work if u push. Now I know they also say it will never stop working...so take it in stride. But, all I'm replaying now is dont push it, it may stop working. What a bummer man. AA destroyed my alcoholic drinking and MWO is destroying my normal drinking. I am no longer reading BS about be careful ur gonna crash and burn. It's like when I got a kayak and all my dad talked about is how I could drown. Or when I take the dog out my folks always remind me hawks could get him. Life's too short. Y'all take ur scary thoughts and go stick it hahahah. I don't worry about hawks or drowning in my kayak. I damn sure ain't worrying about bac doom. Alright I need to get with it... I'm a beer down.

[bleep]

Drunk by Choice?

Cool post!

[JDizzle]

Drunk by Choice?

Y'all, I want to give you my deepest apologies. I tried really hard to drink a 6er. I had 3.5 and poured out the last half. One of my issues when I am in my disease is I gain a lot of weight. I was thinking I really wanted a brisket roll up from Taco Bueno. So I thought well if I am going to have a brisket roll up, I should probably walk. So, I just had to do it...that brisket roll up is just pounding my brain. :goodjob: Dizzle. Alright so I just want to publicly promise all of you .... I will drink a 6er this weekend. I promise I will (try) . Off to do my mile. I have ZERO desire to take another drink and now-a-days in my life... I KNOW that drink will not be taken.

[JDizzle]

Drunk by Choice?

GD!!! Now i dont want the freakin roll up. Bac is not fair...what about my needs!!!

Ok friends...I am going to stop enjoying my own company and shower and go to sleep. Hope everyone had a good day.

[Sticky]

Drunk by Choice?

Hey JDizzle

I'm also here b/c I want to drink "normally". (Or not drink and be HAPPY with that.) I too have struggled with this disease for 20 years. I wanted to be like "Mr A" in Amiesen's book. He wanted to be able to continue drinking as he travels around in a Sales role and entertains clients regularly. He was able to do so at 100mg with an extra 40mg on stressful occasions. He never drinks more than 3 drinks at a time and drinks within healthy guidelines, according to the book.

Unfortunately it hasn't happened like that for me, bugger it, but I haven't given up yet.

It sounds like you are doing well. Keep it up!

Cheers
Sticky

[MaryGoRound]

Drunk by Choice?

Ok- my first time going into the fray, but I am going to do it.

As far as I know Dr. A. does not drink. Yes, he put his "experiment" in his book but he has since thought it better for his own situation to not drink at all. He decided Baclofen and no drinking were his path. Many others have been able to drink occasionally while taking Baclofen if they stay at a dose that works for them.

Perhaps I can clear the air by starting a new thread. In the past few days I was bit. Insead of raining on JD's parade (btw JD I am very glad you are in a good place) it is better to share my thoughts elsewhere.

[JDizzle]

Drunk by Choice?

We should totally all get together and throw me a parade. I completely deserve world wide recognition for this. :new:

[Cassander]

Drunk by Choice?

Hi y'all --

(I like that "y'all" expression I've seen here. Might go with it.)

I'm not sure this is a contribution or a digression or a hijack or irrelevant, but I am put in mind reading this thread to say that one of the reasons I like the bac solution so much ... and so much more than the AA solution is that -- ideally -- once indifference on bac is reached one shouldn't have to think about alcohol much at all. Or at all.

Whereas, in and with AA one must continue to think about alcohol all the time every day. Even if one is not drinking and including if one has not had a drink for years!
Which meeting shall I go to? Shall I go this morning or this afternoon or this evening or tomorrow or maybe skip it? And at the meeting, what are we going to talk about? ALCOHOL. I know it is a subject that we are very interested in, but, really, let's give it a break! Post indifference there are so many wonderful things to think about and do...and none of them involve ALCOHOL.

Anyway, its just my thought of the day.

Cheers!

Cass

[Colin]

Drunk by Choice?

Renaud de Beaurepaire is the author of Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen: A 2-Year Observational Study of 100 Patients

I recently had the following emain exchange with him:-

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Thank you for your mail. You certainely reached your controlling dose, no need of testing. But baclofen does not prevent you from drinking a glass or two.
I do not mean exactly that comorbid depression makes you less amenable to baclofen treatment, Just think that depressed people often do not really want to be freed from alcohol. And do not take their medication properly.
RB


Le 21 mars 13 ? 18:53, Colin X a ?crit :

Dear Dr. de Beaurepaire,
My congratulations and thanks for your paper "Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen".
I am a 66 year old alcoholic with comorbid chronic depression for which I have been prescribed 40 mg per day citalopram. This had a very successful effect on the depression. April 2012 I was admitted to a Dutch clinic for a seven week alcohol treatment. Towards the end of this period I began taking baclofen and since then I have slowly titrated up to 150 mg per day, while having been teetotal, with no cravings and only marginal interest in alcohol. Sooner or later I will be testing the efficacy of baclofen by some limited drinking since I have no other way of knowing whether I have reached my "controlling dose".
In your paper you noted that alcoholics with comorbid depression were less amenable to baclofen treatment. I would appreciate any further imformation.

Yours Sincerely,
Colin X

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Let's raise a glass to Olivier Ameisen, Renaud de Beaurepaire and JDizzle's parade.