Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Depression has been coming up quite a bit recently. It's an important topic for several reasons. I'm not suggesting this thread is a place to be depressed, or to treat depression! I don't have any answers but I bet if we work together we can come up with some.

Depression is tough because we use it to describe a lousy week, a mood, a difficult transition, emotional upheaval...But it can also be a brain chemistry dysfunction that needs some sort of medical attention in order to get well. My psych professor described depression and anxiety as two sides of the same coin. And I don't think I've ever met an alcoholic in recovery that didn't struggle with mood swings. Some of us are very likely to have the kind of depression that is fundamental. But a lot of us don't. A lot of us are just going to have the kind that is related to chemical upheaval and "what the heck do I do now that I have all this time and/or can't drown my thoughts in a bottle?"

Anyone have any thoughts? I have two to start.

The first is that exercise is the most effective antidepressant. (Which is a bitter irony, since it's so hard to do when I just don't feel like doing anything.)

The second is...I forget what I was going to write. :H
I'll be back later when I'm not distracted by the sudden appearance of my husband and apparent start to my day.

[Guitarista]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Ne/Neva Eva;1522200 wrote: Depression has been coming up quite a bit recently. It's an important topic for several reasons. I'm not suggesting this thread is a place to be depressed, or to treat depression! I don't have any answers but I bet if we work together we can come up with some.

Depression is tough because we use it to describe a lousy week, a mood, a difficult transition, emotional upheaval...But it can also be a brain chemistry dysfunction that needs some sort of medical attention in order to get well. My psych professor described depression and anxiety as two sides of the same coin. And I don't think I've ever met an alcoholic in recovery that didn't struggle with mood swings. Some of us are very likely to have the kind of depression that is fundamental. But a lot of us don't. A lot of us are just going to have the kind that is related to chemical upheaval and "what the heck do I do now that I have all this time and/or can't drown my thoughts in a bottle?"

Anyone have any thoughts? I have two to start.

The first is that exercise is the most effective antidepressant. (Which is a bitter irony, since it's so hard to do when I just don't feel like doing anything.)

The second is...I forget what I was going to write. :H
I'll be back later when I'm not distracted by the sudden appearance of my husband and apparent start to my day.

Hi Neva,

Yep, exercise is an effective anti-depressant. Doing something you love to do that gives a feeling of self worth, self esteem is great too. For me, sometimes it's a matter of putting on the running shoes and forcing myself out the door to change my mood. If I don't take action and 'shake it up', the depression will engulf me.

Picasso told me once....'G man, when you don't feel like painting, paint!' (i.e. exercise) This is true for me.

We must take action against our depression and move/do something else, or it can get us in it's grip again, for those of us who are prone to it when sober.

[bleep]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Exercise depresses the hell out of me. Luckily I am not depressed to start with, and I find the simple thought of not exercising is enough to lift me out of whatever funk I may be in.

Good thread though.

[kronkcarr]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

I can't say I get depressed but I do get blah. My remedies are to get out in nature and to do things with friends. It took me awhile on bac to realize that my moods aren't any different then they were before--I just recognize them better now.

[StuckinLA]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

My depression vanishes into thin air whenever I think about a nice, big tumbler of whiskey waiting for me in a dark bar. That's what you meant about remedies, right?

[RedThread12]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

REALLY wish there was a "like" button, Bleepster!!
I have a lot more to say about this subject; but so little time, it's really depressing :upset:

[spiritwolf333]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Per NE:"Depression is tough because we use it to describe a lousy week, a mood, a difficult transition, emotional upheaval...But it can also be a brain chemistry dysfunction that A lot of us are just going to have the kind that is related to chemical upheaval and "what the heck do I do now that I have all this time and/or can't drown my thoughts in a bottle?"
The first is that exercise is the most effective antidepressant. (Which is a bitter irony, since it's so hard to do when I just don't feel like doing anything.)"

Thanks for the thread NE. Great quote -no bottle to drown my thoughts in and that use to be exactly where I would go. My thought back then may have been on the order of "I don't exactly know what state of mind I am in right now, but at least with some alcohol I will know exactly how I am going to feel". Perhaps as you have said in the past, I might be one always chasing the high and any thing less than that is not acceptable. Well, it is acceptable now its time to just accept it and keep plugging on. And its time for me to stop bs myself; I'm not exercising and I am not eating properly. I seem to be looking for a little white pill like Baclofen to cure my depression. I think that little white pill for me is to come in the form of me getting my a-- up and moving -like it or not. And, I need to stop blaming baclofen for somnolence when I continue to refuse to even try to exercise. The type of depression I have experience lately scares me -its as if I don't even recognize how positive things have been lately and even worse, I don't seem to care. Well, enough bs to me.

Going to the mountains to hike this weekend. If I were to stay depressed, I can think of no better place to be. Thanks to all for your posts.

[MaryGoRound]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Ne/Neva Eva;1522200 wrote:

Depression is tough because we use it to describe a lousy week, a mood, a difficult transition, emotional upheaval...But it can also be a brain chemistry dysfunction that needs some sort of medical attention in order to get well. My psych professor described depression and anxiety as two sides of the same coin. .

The first is that exercise is the most effective antidepressant. (Which is a bitter irony, since it's so hard to do when I just don't feel like doing anything.)

I am feeling depression. It is worse when I drink...I need to remember this! It is different than a just a mood. The worse part is sometimes I want to drink just to get the uplift. It is not to be social or because I have an urge in the traditional sense. I just want to feel better for a bit.

I have not really had this before. I have had anxiety and I have been on Anti-depressants to help. They did help to varying degrees but I never stayed on them long.

I just went to the doctor and I am on an AD. It is my fourth day and I feel less down but more anxious (can't I get a break?). I am going to give it a couple of weeks before I decide if I will keep it up. I really hate being on all this medication.

For the record, I do exercise regularly and eat OK.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Hiya, folks.

Just thought I'd squeeze in here for a minute before my eyes shut on me.

I think the thing I like best about exercise is that...it makes me feel good. Not in the moment. That isn't it at all. I think it makes me feel...strong. Proud? Healthy, definitely. And somehow I think it makes it easier to eat better. But all of that could be rose-tinted glasses, because it's been a loooong time since I've done it regularly enough to have a clue. And the other thing is, it works for me. (I think?) The only time bleep's going to enjoy running is if something is trying to catch him and eat him. So, bleep, what do you do?

Guitarista, I'm with you about the sometimes you just gotta do it. I'm feeling that way about school (and honestly a lot of other things) right now. I wish it was fun. It isn't. I'm not even getting much satisfaction out of it when it goes well. pffft.

Yea, stuck, that's one answer for sure. Tried that last weekend. It sucked worse than sand in a bathing suit. uh-uh. Sorry. How's the running? Am I just dreaming up the benefits or are you getting something out of it?

Kronk, that is also truth. I am still unsure sometimes about where to classify whatever is going on in this mind. It's not depression for me, but anxiety. I'm wondering what level of anxiety is acceptable/manageable/feasible? I generally classify it in to one of two categories: Reasonable reasons for concern/stress/worry. Those just need to be dealt with, even if it's just to figure out there isn't a solution. (That's the "omg, I'm going to die some day!" yep. Sure enough. Doesn't really change anything thinking about it, though.) Then there's the wth-is-going-on-in-my-mind stuff. The "!!!" things that I can obsess about, or that scare the crap out of me/make me feel really badly about myself for no good reason. Still not sure what to do with those except keep trying to permanently eliminate 'em. I think meditation really helps. (John Kabat-Zinn is a good place to start, peeps, if you're interested. Not religious, not overwhelming, and he's funny. Good stuff. Also Wes Nicker...Dammit. Mind blank. Redthread?) EDIT: NISKER! Wes Nisker. He's brilliant.

Mary, this is kind of unrelated to your post, but I've been reading Clean, a new book about addiction (all kinds, they're much more similar than they are disparate) and your post is very resonant of some of the points in the book. But that's beside the point. It's a fascinating book, if you're interested. Best I've ever read on the subject. (Kronk, you too might find it interesting.)
I had a friend (not alcoholic) who started on an AD and has had great results. The thing is, she started it and stopped it because it made her feel wonky--anxious, emotional, sleepless, crazy dreams. And then she started and stopped again. And then she finally took it regularly for a while and started to feel better, but not quite good. She was clearly still depressed. Her doctor (a gynecologist!) upped the dose above the norm and I have been amazed at the difference. It reminded me a bit of what I've (we've) gone through. I'm not suggesting anything specific, but it was a reminder to me that sometimes I ought to just take the pills (most recently my cholesterol medication, and Chantix) 'til everything settles down.
I hope that they work for you and that you're feeling better very soon.


STP posted this on the General Discussion forum. It made me think of some of my friends down here:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f9...oze-77784.html

Just reread the article. Feckin' hysterical.

[StuckinLA]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Meh. I was gonna respond on your thread, Ne, but now I'm here and I'll just say whatever it was all at once, or something.

I f**king hate running. Always have. And it's always been my go-to for cardio, even if I'm using a rowing machine or the stationary bike or swimming (man, that's been a while...). So, to answer your question, I don't know how it's "going," but I did just get back from a 45 minute jog during which time I covered about 3.2 miles. To my mind, that still sucks. I mean, 14 minute miles or whatever it is, sucks. But I'm still getting back into all this, and these goddamned hills are RIDICULOUS. Of course, it doesn't help that at the end before getting home I went around the block once so I could run up one of the hills twice. I don't know what's wrong with me. But anyways, I just pop my headphones in and listen to Marine Corps running cadences and go... until I gotta walk for a while, and then jog again. It doesn't get better, but it gets... more consistent?

I've been feeling flat and lifeless as hell lately. Don't know if I want to call it "depression," but it blows. Can't really get excited about hockey, can't really get excited about hanging out with the bartender--she can tell something's up with me, even more than just not drinking. Can't even psych myself up to take a whole day to f**k off and play xbox or even to sit around and watch TV. I guess maybe that's depression, but whatever.

Do you remember the movie The Matrix? In the opening scene there's this pretty badass part where Carrie Anne-Moss's character jumps off one building and crash-lands through the window of another building, and lands on her back, and is lying there kind of busted up and exhausted, but of course she's being chased and has to keep trying to escape the bad guys and all that. The point of all this is, as she's lying there she talks to herself in the third person, and just says "get up, Trinity, get up." And sometimes that's what it takes. Before that jog this evening I was bored as hell, didn't want to do anything, and was set on searching for the end of the internet or something, and ultimately had to say to myself--out loud--"get up, Stuck."

And that's sometimes the only thing that gets me through--getting up in the morning and sitting down to try to work and just not leaving the desk until I've spent at least 2 hours trying to write. Then doing dishes because that's what you just do, and laundry, and getting up and going for a run because, well, because one of my phone apps will charge me money if I don't.

Or maybe that didn't answer your question...

[bleep]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

Ne/Neva Eva;1523157 wrote: The only time bleep's going to enjoy running is if something is trying to catch him and eat him. So, bleep, what do you do?

Even then I would negotiate with the beast, and if that failed, climb a tree. As Stuck says a little later in the thread, running is evil, unpleasant and downright bad for you (I may be paraphrasing slightly). One of my friends who used to run, and was into the whole fitness thing has completely fucked knees and has just come out of hospital from a back operation, caused mostly by exercising. I consider it a lesson well learnt.

The biggest thing that helps me is that I don't sweat it, literally. Just stop panicking about all of this shit. Don't read books about addiction, you're not addicted anymore. There is enough crap out there without having to read about it. Enjoy this amazing life, preferably from a couch. If you can't find a good couch, go on a hike far into the middle of nowhere (perilously close to exercise, but so be it.). Take no ipod, no phone, nothing electronic of any description, except a GPS if you need one. It's almost impossible to be depressed on a good hike, except on the uphill bits.

And don't ever, ever watch the news. It is boring and sad and depressing and very seldom relevant. Your life will improve immeasurably if you don't ever watch the news again. Or TV for that matter.

And I think people sometimes think too much. Sometimes a situation or a state of mind just is, and thinking about it is not going to bring you closer to an answer. Ergo, don't bother thinking about, and go and do something else. Begin your search for the perfect couch, which is a lifelong mission, and one that is never over. Some things can benefit from thought, the trick is identifying which ones, and not wasting time on those that don't.

That's probably my philosophy. I hadn't really thought about it until writing it out though, so it would probably change the next time someone asked me. Except the news bit. That's a universal constant.

[kronkcarr]

Depression? Sobriety? and bac?

bleep,

Thanks for your post. Not sweating all the crap works for me too. When I drank too much I knew there was crap but I couldn't differentiate the crap. Now I can and I handle it and let it go. Funny, it all works out without me obsessing over any of it.

Ne, I tried to read Clean twice and it just held nothing for me. Maybe I was pissed that the author only mentioned bac and other drugs in one small chapter. Actually I remember bac being mentioned in one sentence.

I started getting nervous about a fun trip I'm taking in a week. I was surprised. I started on in my head about all the credit card, $$, cell phone stuff I had to do for international travel. I took extra bac and just started doing what I need to do. What a change from my pre bac days. I didn't put the work in the last 7 months to stay stuck in misery. Now I see what's going on with me and I'm able to adjust myself. I think that's what's called Life.