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    #1

    Old Timers Respond

    I have really been questioning bac lately. I look back on where I was at 120 mg. I was doing VERY well. I screwed up and got really tanked and made some bad decisions. That real cool guy came out that wants to talk to everyone in a 10 mile radius... anyways, it was old school bad. I had drank successfully (a few beers) more than 10 times and unsuccessfully once. Usually that ratio is 0 successful and 10 unsuccessful. BUT, I felt like I failed and bac did not work because of that one time. I am rethinking that now. There is a vibe put out by old timers here that you hit your switch and never look back and never have an alcohol issue ever again.

    So, us newcomers are lead to believe that if we fail once out of 11 attempts that we have failed. I don't believe this is the case. AND I dont believe this is a good thing to put out. I get the idea that "we" want to put out an image that bac is amazing, changes ur life, and there is never an issue again. I totally understand that and semi-support that train of thought. But, this seems also to make it so the newcomers (which are the people needing ur message) are receiving less than accurate information, and are being set up for failure.... at least in their minds. I just know all of the old timers have the best of intentions in their heart, but wonder if this is the best thing to do.

    I guess what I am getting at ... is post switch rainbows and butterflies every time you drink? I assume a lot of old timers drink here and there still. If u r abstinent, ur just a ninja jesus. But what about the ones that do drink in moderation. Do you fuck up here and there? I mean, if you had told me I would go 1 for 11 on fuck ups, I would have thought ... oh sweet I didnt mess up once, but it was the other way around. That has to be the meds working...right?
    When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.
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    #2
    Old Timers Respond

    Hitting the switch is only, ONLY the beginning. Many of us have remarked that we've hit the switch more than once, and the cause is more or less this:

    Baclofen changes your brain chemistry, but YOU must change your behavior.

    My first switch was lost when I didn't want to shake the habit of eating out every night- and there happened to be a place that served greasy food and fishbowl glasses of beer within walking distance. Even though I was indifferent to alcohol, I still clung to the warm and cozy habit of getting to sit there in a facsimile social atmosphere while texting with s cold beer every night. It was just pathetic! I still cringe at what a sight I must have been to the waitstaff. And- word of warning- once you cross the threshold of 3 drinks you've lost indifference for the night and are good for 6. Keep the habit up and your maintenance dose is powerless to overcome it. Back to square 1.

    By cutting out restaurants (except with my sweetheart) I took a major step in securing my switch for good this time. And- the fact that you made a mistake and recognized it means you're already on the path to correct it. In manufacturing there is an entire science dedicated to correcting mistakes, and an accurate appraisal of the situation is the first step.

    Another word of warning- if you let yourself drink more than you're indifferent to to fit into a social gathering, the old you will come back out with vengeance. Baclofen doesn't undo your drunk personality.

    So, in a nutshell, committing to erasing the habit (people, places, things) is the most important and necessary step you must take.

    Comment

      #3
      Old Timers Respond

      Fred that is awesome feedback. Thank you. I did notice for myself... anything more than 3 was putting me on shaky ground. Another mistake I made (same as you) was going to bars and stuff.

      So you said your first switch... isn't it still your switch, you just need to change your behavior? So like you hit ur switch but then that switch no longer works and u need to take more pills, but can't u just change ur behavior at that point and stay at the same dose because it is the dose where ur brain chemistry changed (run on sentence) ? I guess if ur brain chemistry is changed, why take more pills?

      Do you ever go overboard now that u changed ur behavior? Once a year even?

      Also, again thank you for this response. I know drinking is a little taboo to talk about in here, but us newcomers r freaking drinking...whether we are trying to quit altogether or trying to moderate. We would not be here if we had already stopped drinking. So I just want to hear about drinking from people with a lot of experience (in post switch drinking) .... and thank you for putting urself out there.
      When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

      Comment

        #4
        Old Timers Respond

        Ok another question important to me.... from my story I just told and you knowing how ur drinking went on switch one... Did it get to the point that u started getting hammered every time and the bac completely quit working? Or, did you screw up sometimes but usually not? I am talking about when u were going to ur watering hole eating greasy foods.

        Like i went 1-11... would that get to the point that I was never successful at drinking anymore like I was before I ever took baclofen?
        When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

        Comment

          #5
          Old Timers Respond

          The switch is by no means permanent- you can turn back the tide by returning to drinking. I actually haven't cut out the act of drinking- but the habits are gone because I removed the cues. In fact, I still go through about a 6 pack a week, but many of those aren't even finished. I just don't feel the sense of obligation to get drunk because I feel like I should be having a good time- I've simply moved beyond that.

          Come to enjoy the mundane things in life instead of making every night a party. I actually have come to enjoy cooking over eating out because it saves a lot of money.

          I'll tell you what you need- but you're not there yet. Once you hit your switch you will see yourself and your behavior patterns for what they are and the sense of disgust will be overwhelming. Let that be the inflection point at which you say "enough's enough" and start doing good things by not doing bad things like partying.

          Comment

            #6
            Old Timers Respond

            Ok so I like that. The switch is not permanent. I have heard it was by other old timers.

            So are the effects of baclofen on alcoholism dependant on my actions? I realize I have to change myself, but I thought baclofen changed my outlook on alcohol in general. So we have spoken on how to take the pill...to death. What else do we need to do? You know what I'm sayin? Like baclofen isn't going to work unless I physically do something? Just talking about the removal of the obsession to drink. I have a box of tools to deal with who I am.

            I'm really trying to stress here that I am solely talking about treating my alcoholism not treating my character defects. Sorry if I am beating that to death. I just want to make sure they r separate.
            When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

            Comment

              #7
              Old Timers Respond

              Awesome, Fred.
              Absolutely right on, IMHO.
              You have quite succinctly summarized information and experience available for reading in many threads regarding baclofen, here on MWO.

              Does everyone not understand that we are all, literally, still a work in progress, trying to save our lives? That we are making this up as we go along, given there is NO history of ANY pharmaceutical remedy for alcoholism? That we are doing our best to salvage our own lives, and at the same time hold a flame of possibility for other suffering drunks?

              You've been a great addition to MWO lately, JDizzle. Don't you think that if anyone knew how to find YOUR way out, they would have stepped forward by now?
              "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

              Comment

                #8
                Old Timers Respond

                Totally agree that it has become difficult to question the efficacy of Baclofen without feeling like a pariah.
                At high dose I am unable to function effectively. I may be a very nice guy but I just can't be bothered to bend the world to my advantage. If I was in a 'job for life' situation it wouldn't matter but being self-employed can require a extra bit of skittishness, caution and killer instinct sometimes. May not be the best way to live but I've had a lifetime of perfecting it and don't know any thing else.

                Having reduced to 80mg I can compete but the problems are still not over. Sexually, I'm just not getting the rush needed to finish the job. Not sure if that's due to a physical SE of Bac or a result of Bac letting me question all my preheld beliefs.

                Not getting outrageously drunk at this level but would prefer to drink less and worried that my consumption will increase.
                Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 Present maintenance dose of 50mg : started drinking after 1 year, upped dose to 80mg and stopped: Tapered to 30mg, started 6 months of drinking, upped dose to 240mg to stop 12/7/12

                Comment

                  #9
                  Old Timers Respond

                  RedThread12;1533652 wrote: Awesome, Fred.
                  Absolutely right on, IMHO.
                  You have quite succinctly summarized information and experience available for reading in many threads regarding baclofen, here on MWO.

                  Does everyone not understand that we are all, literally, still a work in progress, trying to save our lives? That we are making this up as we go along, given there is NO history of ANY pharmaceutical remedy for alcoholism? That we are doing our best to salvage our own lives, and at the same time hold a flame of possibility for other suffering drunks?

                  You've been a great addition to MWO lately, JDizzle. Don't you think that if anyone knew how to find YOUR way out, they would have stepped forward by now?
                  Man I'm just asking what I feel r good questions. I'm trying to find some commonality amongst the old timers. I have already seen the differences. I figure in the common instances of the stories lie the answers. That is all I am trying to do here. I further think that every thread in here is summarized by other threads in the room.... Kinda like a forum type thing. I think that this is a highly appropriate thread and as u seem to have it all figured out, the old timers aren't here posting for u, but for the people looking for a way out. We are the ones that need important questions answered.

                  It is in fact great to hear everyone is a work in process. I think that is the first time I have read that. I always seem to read answers answers answers. I am just trying to add those answers up for us new people that are a little skeptical about this.... Aren't those the people u all say u want to reach?
                  When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Old Timers Respond

                    Also, I really don't want to get off topic here. Old timers, I would still appreciate your input.
                    When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Old Timers Respond

                      I'd say there is a change in habits--or at least a change in outlook--that's required even after the switch.

                      In my case, I've always identified as a drunk. I LIKED being a drunk. FU, F your rules, F your 9-5 job, and pretty much all of society. I'll go to the bar at noon and get plastered if I want, and I'll still get up and teach all hungover the next day, then go straight back to the bar after class.

                      Ah, the pitfalls of thinking you're a writer.

                      But anyways, when I got near the switch, I was still going to bars all the time, but didn't feel like drinking. I'd order a beer, but it would take me a long time to drink it. I didn't feel like doing shots at all, and I just felt really lost, and sad, and angry that I couldn't hang with everybody else at the bar. I honestly never tried for a 30 day period of abstinence, but did find myself going sometimes for a week or so without noticing that I hadn't drank.

                      I also don't think I looked forward to drinking. I didn't make plans to go out and have "a few," but at the same time I didn't really look forward to anything.

                      Still don't. But with 67 days of continuous sobriety--which is the longest I've gone with or without bac since I was maybe 19--things are kind of almost sort of falling into perspective, maybe. Or maybe that's just the 2 O'Doules I had at the bar talking...

                      [EDIT: I also don't think it's terrible to question the efficacy of bac. I do believe that it will make you stop drinking, if you take enough of it for long enough. But I also don't believe that's the best idea for everyone, for a lot of reasons. The SEs are one of those reasons, as they seem to affect people differently without rhyme or reason, and there are some pretty serious mental/emotional issues that can surface, whether they were always latent or a result of bac is a question I prefer not to comment on. But I myself feel like I've been through the wringer this past year, with booze, then bac, then both, and now finally neither. But this kind of dialogue is really, really important.]

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Old Timers Respond

                        Check out bleeps story. It's around here somewhere. But since I am a self serving asshole I'll just point you to the one on baclofenforalcoholism.com. It's under the "This is who we are" section and it's titled baclofen works.

                        Wait, I remember the title of his thread on here about the same story. It's "baclofen stops working".

                        The disparity between the titles will elucidate itself if you read either one.
                        :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                        :what?:
                        sigpic
                        Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                        Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                        Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                        A Forum
                        Trolls need not apply

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Old Timers Respond

                          I'd offer my own contribution but I am evil and will likely steer you down the wrong path.
                          :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                          :what?:
                          sigpic
                          Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                          Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                          Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                          A Forum
                          Trolls need not apply

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Old Timers Respond

                            I would also like to clarify a point.
                            There is actually no question in my mind about the efficacy of Baclofen. It is just a question of its suitability. I'm sure for a few folks it may not work but for the majority it will stop cravings dead.

                            Bac can give us all a chance to take a look at our lives without the alcohol veneer. What we do with the information from the new perspective is a different story.
                            Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 Present maintenance dose of 50mg : started drinking after 1 year, upped dose to 80mg and stopped: Tapered to 30mg, started 6 months of drinking, upped dose to 240mg to stop 12/7/12

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Old Timers Respond

                              JDizz-Great Thread.

                              Cat man, you are putting out some very valid and useful information. You obviously have a vast amount of knowledge and the ability to put that experience into layman words. I know parts of your comments are valid for me because that has been my same experience.

                              Your comment summarized, "change the brain but not the habits or routines" will cause havoc.and might even derail the entire baclofen train. I can only imagine the extreme hell and price one has to pay to continue drinking at their pre-baclofen level. My few experiments at just 10% of former drinking levels produced severe negative side effects for the rest of the day/eve and even into the next day. It's almost like the baclofen is telling me that I am no longer suited to be a drunk. Firewater just does not add any benefit to my life anymore -and I am glad.

                              RED, IG, FRED -Thank you for the brief but powerful comments. As a 100 +day newbie, this is exactly the kind and extent of information I need.
                              (Yea Red, guess we are all a work in progress, trying to stay alive the best we know how to at this stage in our journey -good point)

                              Thanks again JD.

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