My Bac journey

[dundrinkn]

My Bac journey

Cassander -- I think you are right as well!

Get a new therapist. Otherwise you have an "authority figure" who thinks you are a sullen F-up who just won't get with the program. That puts you in the position of either believing her, or proving her wrong. Why not just find someone that you can align with, and that can help you with your agenda. This therapist is not a family member, not a parent, and you don't owe her anything. Except whatever you pay her per hour to be condescending and treat you like a child that is behaving badly.

I spent 10 years "white knuckling" it in AA -- as my sponsor at the time used to snicker and say, shaking her head. And I played the rebel. I can get sober my way. Not buying into the program. But in the end, it didn't work. And yes, I bought into the whole reason it didn't work was because I didn't work it. Did me a whole shitload of good. I spent the next 18 years drunk on and off. Beating myself up, self-loathing, depressed.

Get a new therapist. Keep the doc. Take the pills. And just keep putting one foot in front of the next.

Also, I did feel different at 30mg a day. My drinking dropped dramatically in the first week. From 70-80 beers a week, down to probably 10-14. Within a few weeks, I was down even less than that. When you feel that relief, don't assume it isn't real. If you have to test it, do. But also know that if you can stretch that relief into an AF day, you will start to have more confidence and can ease into this without as much anxiety.

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Thanks so much guys.
Yesterday was a real bad day - not what you'd expect after a 30 min session with a specialized therapist.
I feel somewhat - sort of- better this morning, especially after reading of your support here and your encouragement to stick with it.

X, the 4-hr-apart is more a coincidence than a decision. I mentioned I am not working right now, so I just go to bed late and wake up late. There are simply fewer hrs in the day to spread the med doses apart, as I try not to take it too late for fear of insomnia. It's as silly and simple as that. I will make an effort to wait 8 hrs between doses - definitely will have to when I start working again.

I did find that Bac makes me extremely sleepy when I take 20 mg. So maybe I should take that dosage at night. No insomnia yet. Even the other night when I did not drink a drop! I took me a while to go to bed but not to fall asleep once there.

As for the therapist: she and the doctor come as a package. I could have said no before the first session, but now?? It's a team of four people and they all know everything of each patient... I do feel she is not right for me. But how do I get out of it?? ...When she mentioned Prozac for me and I tensed right away, she just snapped a 'what's wrong with Prozac?' exactly the same way she'd snap back a 'it's AA or nothing,' like I was being reluctant just because=refusing the only cure. She did not even give me the time to say 'I was given Prozac to cure depression for putting on weight, for not being able to control it as obsessively as I had till then, and the only thing it did was make me put on even more, in a heartbeat' (great doctor, that one). Her attitude is defensive from the get-go, that is if you question something she puts on the 'you simply do not want to get better' attitude.
But how do I get out of...her?

[Colin]

My Bac journey

You and the therapist are incompatible. Have you told the doctor about this? Most packages can be reconfigured.

Good luck.

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Yes Colin, I think that's the only sensible thing to do... I wonder how the doc would take it, but so far I've always underestimated his being openminded, so...

I forgot to mention my splitting headache b/c of last night's drinking... I did not feel the initial indifference/ urge to get away from it, nor the abnormal slowness in drinking, but I did pour the last half glass into the sink- though I have to admit the Bac drowsiness and the wine had already had their full effect by then... I know it takes time and then time and then some, but I did hope to experience the same some sort of distance to alcohol...Did not happen...Bummer.

[Medicated&Motivated]

My Bac journey

Glad to hear everyone chiming in on AA. I agree - f??! that therapist!

Zampa, It's so hard to remember when you're feeling really low that it will ever be possible to feel good again. I know, because I took a depression nose dive a month ago that has had me barely able to get off the couch, much less out of the house. Literally, a few grocery trips, Dr. appts, and a few days when I pushed myself to take bike rides before returning to my couch funk.

Nevertheless, I have practiced my Nal protocol diligently (hope you BACers don't mind my participation; I consider us all to be in the same boat) and am finally feeling results, and woke up today optimistic for the first time in weeks, having consumed less than 1 bottle of wine last night; a huge victory for me, since a month ago I was at 1 1/2 - 3 bottles a day.

Please stick with what you're doing (and take to heart the suggestions and experience of the many successful BAC members here) and have faith that it will get better. You'll get better.

[kronkcarr]

My Bac journey

I know that drinking allowed me to just "let things go". But I only let them go on the surface. I let all that stuff I didn't like or agree with eat me up emotionally. You're starting your baclofen journey to take care of yourself, so take a deep breath before your next appt and tell your doctor that the therapist is not a good match for you. You'll gain in self confidence and self esteem plus you won't have to sit with a therapist that doesn't give you a chance to speak. That's my 2 cents.

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

M&M,
thanks for your words on being depressed. That day was a very dark day.
And yesterday, quite unbelievably, though it started out pretty much the same, around 3 o'clock something shifted and I suddenly became positive and hopeful and strong. The opposite of the day before. But what amazed me most was that I had no desire to drink whatsoever.I mean, none! I even went grocery shopping and did not even contemplate buying wine ( though it's tragically funny how, even when you do not want to drink without forcing abstinence on yourself, the one time that it comes genuinely from within, there's still a F***ing evil voice in you that says 'drink!'...The bastard). For a moment I thought of it before going shopping, but it was just a moment and my mind pushed it aside WITHOUT an effort. That was so unusual. But even more the fact that I was perfectly content without it at night, while cooking first and on the couch watching TV later. I did not miss it!! And a few times I thought, 'is this what life is without alcohol slavery? Because if it is it feels awesome.' I felt free. I was totally fine w/o drinking and for once I did not force it on myself. It came natural... I was almost euphoric - the 'almost' just because I know there will be several most hell days like Wed before reaching the switch.

I'd love to hope there will be several more yesterdays and fewer and fewer Wednesdays, but I do not kid myself. I know it takes time and the beast is hard to kill. In fact, last night I asked myself if it'd have been the same had I had a bottle at home. I do not have an answer to that.

Kronk, letting things go, but only on the surface, and still eating you up inside. So true! A very wise woman - the one I admire the most in the world - once told me "things that are buried are buried alive" in you. Exactly the point.

On my way to my AA meeting - just to try it all and show my goodwill. Wish me luck : )
Will let you know.

[Cassander]

My Bac journey

zampa75;1539178 wrote:

Kronk, letting things go, but only on the surface, and still eating you up inside. So true!

Zamp, there is a very good book about what happens when we say yes but our body says no. It was recommended to me by another mwo'er. Its called "When the Body Says No" by Dr Gabor Mate. My take is that unresolved stress lies at the root of many, if not most, of our problems. Not only alcoholism, but chronic disease. Its kind of why I think you should find a therapist who reduces your stress, not the other way around!

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Cassander;1539239 wrote: Its kind of why I think you should find a therapist who reduces your stress, not the other way around!

Quite right! Thanks for the book tip.
It's weird how there are very few therapists that accept your questions and doubts and fears as a human thing rather than a refusal to commit to getting better. Some of them are quite blind. They think b/c they have a piece of paper on the wall, they know better period. No matter what. No matter who you are or what there can be out there.

However, the tricky thing is that I first see the therapist and then the doctor - with the therapist sitting next to him! How to approach the matter with her sitting there??

Went to my AA meeting this morning. I must say they were friendly people, who laughed at themselves and made fun of their own addiction, the latter not something I expected to see. Still, I cannot wrap my head around the 'there not being an alternative to total abstinence." I just can't. Especially after having found out about Bac. One of the ladies read something and at a point she said, "If there is a scientific cure, it has not been discovered yet unfortunately."...What if it has?? I kept telling myself in my head. Also, though in a fun/very open and friendly way, they stress so much in the fact that you're sick and you will be forever... But I can't look at it that way. I know I am sick, but now that I've found a chance, I want to be normal. A normal person, living s normal life, healthy in the mind first and then in the body. I can't live in fear to slip. I want to be a regular person. Serene. I would not believe it either that I could had I not found this thread, the med, and a doctor to prescribe it. But I have. And I cannot but look at things from the opposite point of view. This said, they were extremely, extremely nice to me - and fun, unexpectedly.

The person I brought with me for support, however, came out of there already thinking that abstinence is the only way - he already thought that way before, that it is all a matter of willpower. If you don't abstain, you simply do not wan to get out of it. You just don't wanna do it. I wanted to scream - actually, I did scream, in the car.

This just proves that until somebody makes it loud and clear that Bac works, they will always look at people like me like delusional drunks who just wanna keep getting wasted without taking the responsibility of being spineless. Just plain and simple weak.
How sad. And I say this having just started on Bac and not knowing yet if I ever will get to the switch. But the hope that I will is the only thing that keeps me going right now. The only one.:h

[Xadrian]

My Bac journey

zampa75;1539265 wrote: However, the tricky thing is that I first see the therapist and then the doctor - with the therapist sitting next to him! How to approach the matter with her sitting there??

Is there no way you can just schedule a separate appointment with your doc?

[kronkcarr]

My Bac journey

Cass, it's cool you mention Gabor's book. I am rereading it now and I'd texted to Spiritwolf last night that he ought to give it a look. There's so much of the old me in that book (and some of the new me too).

Z, I respectfully disagree with you about therapists. In my experience, there are more than a few competent therapists available. Talking with, being guided by and being heard by a therapist can bring new self realizations, ways to change our coping methods and a healthier, happier life. I'm sorry that you feel trapped in your current arrangement.

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

K, I DO believe that most therapists are great at what they do: I wouldn't keep looking for the right one otherwise : )
I've just said that some of them, and some doctors too, sometimes don't really get it but they don't question themselves 'cos they're too sure they know how you feel/what you need better than you do. That's all. Fortunately they are definitely a small percentage. (Much like being exceptionally smart and holding a PhD in English does not automatically makes you a great teacher).

This specific woman is just not the right one for me. Way too cut and dry and fixated with AA or nothing.

[skullbabyland]

My Bac journey

I actually "fired" my previous doc for being inflexible and uninterested in researching the latest tools such as bac or nal/TSM, even when I was willing to bring him the research directly.

In my opinion, that kind of disinterest in keeping current, especially at a desperate patient's request, is a dealbreaker.

I know it's not easy to find a forward-thinking MD who's openminded about these treatments, but they do exist, and I think it's worth searching for a professional who'll work with you as opposed to dictate/judge you.

Just my two cents. I know that in your case the doc and the therapist are a package deal, but I agree with others- packages can often be re-arranged if you're proactive about doing so. That being said, I do see the value in how the doctor you're working with seems open minded. Best of luck in whatever you decide

[Cassander]

My Bac journey

Hi Zamp

You are so on the right track...I'm really rooting for you.

On AA. I don't think it will harm you...unless you start feeling bad about yourself when you're there or afterwards. If you feel bad, I wouldn't go.

But I think you know its not your real answer.

I also don't think you have to resolve the abstinence/moderation question today. With baclofen, when you reach indifference you will decide whether to drink or not. Many (for many reasons) decide to abstain (whether or not they had planned to). Others have a drink now and then. Some push the envelope. But I don't think you can even know today how you will feel about it when you are indifferent. So I would choose to not even think about it much now. Certainly don't worry.

I find it constantly amazing that died-in-the-wool AAers (and the service community around AA) are so damn sure there is no molecule which resolves the brain chemistry imbalance of an alcoholic. There are antibiotics which resolve bacterial infections. There is insulin which resolves blood glucose imbalances. There is chemotherapy which resolves malignant cell imbalances. There are SSRIs which resolve serotonin imbalances...But brain chemistry imbalances which cause an alcoholic to crave alcohol? Oh no! That's impossible! The world is flat. Everyone knows that!

I also think you are entitled to spend time alone with your physician without the therapist in the room. And you are entitled to 100% confidentiality. I would ask your physician for a few moments alone, confirm that the talk will be confidential and explain your problem with the therapist. In truth, they are not a package and your physician is really obligated (ethically and in every way) to listen to and address your concerns.

Good luck, Zamp!

Cassander

[Cassander]

My Bac journey

skullbabyland;1539438 wrote: I actually "fired" my previous doc for being inflexible and uninterested in researching the latest tools such as bac or nal/TSM, even when I was willing to bring him the research directly.

In my opinion, that kind of disinterest in keeping current, especially at a desperate patient's request, is a dealbreaker.

I know it's not easy to find a forward-thinking MD who's openminded about these treatments, but they do exist, and I think it's worth searching for a professional who'll work with you as opposed to dictate/judge you.

Just my two cents. I know that in your case the doc and the therapist are a package deal, but I agree with others- packages can often be re-arranged if you're proactive about doing so. That being said, I do see the value in how the doctor you're working with seems open minded. Best of luck in whatever you decide

Hi Zamp and Skull

Quick hijack.

I just want to chime in that I, too fired a physician this week who would not read an email I wrote describing my heart/cholesterol history and who would not look at another doctor's x-ray (my orthopedic surgeon saw some calcium build up on an artery in an x-ray of my spine). He had the chutzpah to claim his x-ray reader wouldn't read the other doc's x-ray. I told him I had put the disc in my cheapo Dell laptop and it opened up fine. He insisted his computer couldn't do it. So I just walked out. On the way out he told me that I was welcome to find another doctor but he would have to charge me for the visit! Good riddance!

Sorry, Zamp...back to business...

Cassander