My Bac journey

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Thank you both. I agree with you and appreciate your support! And Cas, I like your reading of doctors who recommend AA and AA only w/o taking into consideration the scientific progress done since the 1930s - or was it earlier?? : ) I had read your post on an imaginary conversation with a doctor in that respect and just wanted to shake your hand.

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Oh my Cas! Some doctors are just unbelievable... I did mention the doc the prescribed me a pill whose first and strongest side effect was what caused my depression and went to him to 'cure'...I also recall he talked about himself a lot more than about me! Go figure...

[skullbabyland]

My Bac journey

@Cass- good for you for not taking it. Doctors are service providers just like any other, and if we're not happy with the service we get, we should go elsewhere.

Arrogant/lazy doctors are really a pet peeve of mine (right behind medical insurance companies).

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Last night we went to dinner to our friends' house - birthday celebration.
Before dinner, my first drink sat next to me on the coffee table almost forgotten - to the point that I had to remind myself to take a sip. How sick is that that you have to remind yourself to drink when you forget there is a drink next to you?? However, very welcome, unexpected feeling. I was very aware I was quite indifferent to that drink, and it felt good.

At dinner, again I had to remind myself to sip the wine while eating and talking. I guess it was my looking for the 'high,' the warm feeling you get when it first hits you. The alcoholic in me hasn't, of course, given up on it yet. Of course. But it was just amazing that I had to almost force myself to drink: I did not feel the irresistible urge to do it. How new.

Very slowly, I sipped on the second and third glass of wine - not in ten minutes like usual but in an hour, or more. And the glass was never ridiculously full: quite the opposite, actually.

Of course it ended up having some effect - also I found the Bac I took right before leaving for the party intensified it 'cos Bac makes me quite drowsy and foggy. But I did not get the urge to get to the bottle to pour another glass and another and another. I did pour a couple of fingers myself twice, but in a very calm way. It was social drinking. Not compulsive drinking. And of all this took hours.

So, my husband finished my first cocktail when wine was poured at dinner - I wouldn't usually give up on a single drop of alcohol, no matter the timing.
Then I then had three glasses of wine altogether with dinner. Without compulsion. Without worrying the wine would finish. Without checking how full my glass was. If I had any kind of thought like that, it was out of pure habit. Or it was the alcoholic in me that tried to hold on to the old sick habits even when they were not compulsive. Bastard.

Later on the patio, after dinner, I had two half glasses. When the second was gone, I did not reach for the bottle. I had a huge glass of water. Not reaching for the bottle when there is still a half on the table? Unheard of me.

But the best part is that the thought of stopping at 7/11 to buy the last bottle, on the way home - a very sad and consolidated habit of mine for the last year - did not even cross my mind. Not for a second. And I did not even have a last beer before going to bed - a sort of safety net when I do not have any more wine in the house. And there was beer in the fridge.The thought crossed my mind and got dismissed before forming itself completely.
I got my book and read till I was really sleepy... Reading instead of drinking more after a night out?? Unbelievable.

This feeling of normalcy, of not being a slave to the next drink, of having drunk socially without uncontrollable compulsion, was so new to me I felt like another person: it felt like I was looking at me from somewhere else in the room. It was not euphoria. It was just a feeling of calm freedom. Of being unchained for once. Of being just a person, not an alcoholic. How freaking liberating.

Now, I do realize this may very well be a placebo effect once again. But if it is, it is very very welcome till the real deal kicks in. Whatever works till I am free me from this ugly chains. I know I will have other days like last Wed before hitting the switch, but I feel really hopeful this morning. I do not know when I last woke up hopeful instead of terribly hangover and desperate and self-loathing and suicidal, or just sick, on a Sunday morning. I only had a very slight headache, but an Advil got rid of it.
It feels good.

As far as SE's: drowsiness in the afternoon is the strongest, and then nausea in the morning, but the latter does not last long. The fear of stronger side effects when I go up more is the only shadow on my optimism right now - I need a gallon of coffee to stay awake in the afternoon!

I do find Bac makes me sleep like a rock at night, though - so unexpected and welcome after having read of so many cases of insomnia! Fri night I did not drink, but I did not take my usual Tylenol Pm, which is mandatory when I do not drink to avoid insomnia. Well, the next morning I had a real hard time getting up, even if I had fallen asleep almost immediately after going to bed and had slept like a baby...! To the point that I will have to seriously take this into consideration when I have to wake up at a certain time to go to work!

Dreams are still so vivid it's like going to see a movie, when I sleep.

To wrap it up, I feel hopeful this morning. Not desperate. And it was just f***g awesome to feel like a regular person and not an alcoholic last night. I can't wait for this to get even better: real, effortless indifference And the norm, rather than the exception. Can't wait.

[Cassander]

My Bac journey

zampa75;1539987 wrote:
This feeling of normalcy, of not being a slave to the next drink, of having drunk socially without uncontrollable compulsion, was so new to me I felt like another person: it felt like I was looking at me from somewhere else in the room. It was not euphoria. It was just a feeling of calm freedom. Of being unchained for once. Of being just a person, not an alcoholic. How freaking liberating.

Don't ever forget the feeling, Zampa -- this is what lies ahead...at the finish line.

By the way, I think (my opinion) this is the difference between baclofen and AA. Between "abstinence" and "indifference".

One of my many problems with AA is that you have to define yourself as an "alcoholic" and organize your day and your life around NOT drinking. Avoiding restaurants with bars, friends who still drink, the smell of beer, etc, etc. The ideal result with baclofen is simple indifference. Drink or not drink. Go into a bar or don't. Pass liquor store. Stop. Don't stop. Indifferent. A feeling of calm freedom.

To me, there is a world of "difference".

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Cassander;1539992 wrote: Don't ever forget the feeling, Zampa -- this is what lies ahead...at the finish line.

Yes! So good to read these words!

Also, you got the difference between AA and Bac perfectly right: I don't want to live in fear,thinking myself an addict forever while building a life around not drinking. I want to live the regular life of a regular person. Free.

[Mandiekinz]

My Bac journey

Zampa, I've been following along your journey. Such an impressive and inspirational read on your last post. Sounds like that indifference is finding it's way into your life, be it placebo effect or the medication...it's so wonderful you've been so blessed experience such a foreign(for us) thing! Well done, Zampa!

Cassander, you put into words what I've been struggling to say. That's such a perfect way to explain it to the "normal" people in my life. The difference between AA and Baclofen. Thank you!

I look forward to reading more of your journey! Keep them coming!

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Thanks Mandie! So glad to be inspiring someone, as many here have inspired me, and still do day after day. The support and hope I find here are amazing.

Last night I was not as indifferent as the night before: I caught myself checking the level of wine in the glass a few times. And I did want to get the buzz. I was aware of it. BUT, I drank so much more slowly than usual. I did not even finish the last glass of wine. I left it full on the restaurant table when we left. I just felt it was enough: I was actually forcing myself to drink it, to finish it, so I left it. And it is pretty rare for me to leave a full glass of wine - paid for, on top of it - on the table.

The best part - once again - is that we stopped at 7/11 to get cigarettes afterwards, but it did not even cross my mind to buy more wine. Not for a second. I got a bottle of sparkling water instead: not as a substitute, which would imply a struggle that was never there, but just b/c I was thirsty. I love that I am not buying the 'final bottle of the night' anymore! Hope I keep it up.

On a side note: Bac people, does drowsiness eventually subside or not?? And, of course I must expect it to be there all the time, going up?

Some days it does not affect me one bit, like yesterday. Some days it's really hard to keep my eyes open, and I couldn't do it without a huge cup of coffee.
Not to be redundant, but I will have to be wide awake till 9/10 o'clock pm very soon, for work, and sharp... Last Wed I was a zombie the whole afternoon, but I did take the highest dose at lunch time, which I will NEVER do again.
All the feedback welcome.

Going up another 10 mg today, after 8 days. Hitting 50/day today. Excited and nervous at the same time...

[skullbabyland]

My Bac journey

Hey Z, sounds like signs continue to be encouraging. I wouldn't worry about placebo effect or not- for us alkies with a powerful urge to drink heavily, I'd be really surprised if there was a placebo effect powerful enough to stop that urge.

Which is another way of saying that you should feel encouraged that the medicine seems to be doing what all the science says it should do. Good progress!

One side note of caution- is there a reason that you choose Tylenol PM as your sleep aid? I ask because it's my understanding that acitomenophen (Tylenol) is known to sometimes contribute to liver damage. Which is of course a greater concern to us drinkers.

Were you aware of this already? Does your MD know/approve?

Just something to consider. There might be other sleep aids that are less concerning to liver function- worth reading up on. As for Tylenol, more info at link below.

Acetaminophen and Liver Injury: Q & A for Consumers

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Thanks Skull. I did not know about this. I'll ask doc if he can recommend something else.I chose Tylenol pm randomly.
I've had my liver checked a month ago: all clear. And doc did say that a small percentage of people are likely to get liver damage: most people won't, even if they drink heavily. Which is not, of course, a reason not to worry about it or drink like fish. Just a piece of data I was not aware of.

Last night I drank too much. I do not know whether Bac amplifies the effect of alcohol - DOES IT? - but I drank what I normally do and got totally f**d up. Not something that happens often. I mean, I'd normally pass out, but I would not walk around like a lunatic on crack like I did last night...

What is encouraging - or infuriating - is that I did make a conscious decision to drink. I did not have the irresistible urge. Not at all. I just wanted to feel the buzz. Mission accomplished.

I feel quite stupid right now, to put it mildly. And I'd like to punch myself in the face, exactly b/c I did not desperately need to get 'high.' I decided to. How messed up is that...? I am trying to push the awareness of it under the rag, b/c the sense of guilt and shame that usually comes with it does not lead to anything good. Quite the opposite... Self-loathing and the bottle are best friends...

It's weird that I am not hangover at all, this morning. Not a bit. Not even a headache...So here are my Qs, guys:

Does Bac amplify the effect of alcohol?
Does it miraculously prevent from being hangover? (I think I've read the exact opposite...)
And how about drowsiness? I've increased to 50 yesterday... Will it stay as long as I go up?

(Man, when I think about last night I feel I let myself down, yet again...Even more than usual, considering how good last Sat felt...WTF...The last breath of the beast, as I read somewhere here? I keep repeating it to myself to get some good out of it, to try to remain hopeful...)

[Cassander]

My Bac journey

zampa75;1540678 wrote:

I feel quite stupid right now, to put it mildly... And I'd like to punch myself in the face, exactly b/c I did not desperately need to get 'high.' I decided to. How messed up is that...? ... the sense of guilt and shame that usually comes with it does not lead to anything good. Quite the opposite... Self-loathing and the bottle are best friends...

Hi Zamp

I italicized some of your words above to make a point.

It is natural to come down hard on yourself for doing what you don't want to do. As you know, that's the nature of addiction.

But here is the good news. Addiction is a disease of the brain. It has nothing to do with our moral responsibility for our actions...(well, not much, anyway... ).

When you reach indifference...when your brain chemistry is "rebalanced", you will not have to look at yourself in the mirror and say "I am so ashamed." You will look at yourself in the mirror and say, "I was sick then. I am well now."

Its just a matter of time.

At least that's what I think.

Cassander

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Thanks Cassander. I so appreciate your comment. It helps me keep hope alive... Actually, you're not even hopeful: you're certain it will happen, and I need this kind of certainty like air right now. It helps me stand up again.
Thank you!

[skullbabyland]

My Bac journey

zampa75;1540678 wrote: Thanks Skull. I did not know about this. I'll ask doc if he can recommend something else.I chose Tylenol pm randomly.
I've had my liver checked a month ago: all clear. And doc did say that a small percentage of people are likely to get liver damage: most people won't, even if they drink heavily. Which is not, of course, a reason not to worry about it or drink like fish. Just a piece of data I was not aware of.

Last night I drank too much. I do not know whether Bac amplifies the effect of alcohol - DOES IT? - but I drank what I normally do and got totally f**d up. Not something that happens often. I mean, I'd normally pass out, but I would not walk around like a lunatic on crack like I did last night...

What is encouraging - or infuriating - is that I did make a conscious decision to drink. I did not have the irresistible urge. Not at all. I just wanted to feel the buzz. Mission accomplished.

I feel quite stupid right now, to put it mildly. And I'd like to punch myself in the face, exactly b/c I did not desperately need to get 'high.' I decided to. How messed up is that...? I am trying to push the awareness of it under the rag, b/c the sense of guilt and shame that usually comes with it does not lead to anything good. Quite the opposite... Self-loathing and the bottle are best friends...

It's weird that I am not hangover at all, this morning. Not a bit. Not even a headache...So here are my Qs, guys:

Does Bac amplify the effect of alcohol?
Does it miraculously prevent from being hangover? (I think I've read the exact opposite...)
And how about drowsiness? I've increased to 50 yesterday... Will it stay as long as I go up?

(Man, when I think about last night I feel I let myself down, yet again...Even more than usual, considering how good last Sat felt...WTF...The last breath of the beast, as I read somewhere here? I keep repeating it to myself to get some good out of it, to try to remain hopeful...)

Zamp, great to hear about the clear liver panel. Some of us are not so lucky, so consider that a blessing! I for one had a bad liver panel for a while and so read up on ways to heal that, (I take milk thistle for one thing) which included being careful about which pain relievers I take. My last liver panel was normal, thank God.

Do ask your MD about the acetomenophen, there may be a better alternative, particularly as a sleep aid. I for one take 10mg melatonin and 50mg benadryl, though I do need to double check to make sure the benadryl in particular is ok with the bac treatment.

As for your thoughts on drinking- I do not believe I've heard of bac amplifying inebriation, but I have experienced odd spikes in drinking such as you describe. I feel that it's the addict in my head fighting back against what looks like a promising treatment. But that fucker won't go down without a fight, that's for sure.

Seriously speaking, my brain's so used to the instant rush of getting hammered that it's going to keep searching for it even in spite of a medication treatment, for a while. Thus, it's going to keep looking for the high of getting drunk and I need to expect that for a while.

This is all a looooong process to "learn" to be indifferent to alcohol. Bac can be a tool with which we can get a bit of distance from the craving, and then the real work begins- looking realistically and logically at our choices. I too often choose to get drunk even though bac has made it so I don't "need" to make that choice.

That's part of the process of learning to live life more soberly. It's going to take a while.

And try to be gentle to yourself. You're not stupid or weak. I understand self-loathing all too well, and it took a while to get to the place were I can lighten up on myself a bit for the bumps in the road. It's worth doing- you'll be stronger and able to battle the demon in the bottle if you're not using all your strength to beat yourself up.

Also, regarding hangovers- while I'm not lucky enough to have no hangover at all, such as you described (damn, I'm envious!) I have noticed that my hangovers seem to be less hellish than usual since starting my bac treatment. I can now usually at least get some work done in the later half of the day, whereas before I'd just be on the couch all day long.

Best to you.

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Great post, Skull. Loved every single word of it. And thanks for your kind words and encouragement! And for all your much needed feedback on the different phases I am going through. Roller-coaster. It's such a blessing to have you guys...!

[zampa75]

My Bac journey

Back from another meeting with therapist/doc.

I got in really hopeful... It died right away.
I was feeling great that I could actually manage not to drink for a few days a week. Without much of a struggle really, which would have been unthinkable a month ago. But it fell way short with her. Again, it's total abstinence or nothing, from the start. What I thought was a great thing, to her was nothing. Delusion only. When I said, " I am much more hopeful b/c I can actually drink less" she said, "and who told you you could drink?" My blood froze in my veins.

All my optimism and hopes and good disposition went right down the drain. Immediately.

I did not spell out that this could not work between us, but I made really clear I did not believe I could do AA, and I just picked this doc b/c I hoped he would prescribe me the med, which he did. I clearly said I was there for that, not for AA. I never thought for a minute I could do AA.

She told me, when I kept bringing up what I've read here and elsewhere online on Bac and the testimonials of all of you guys who successfully reached indifference, that we - she and I - were stuck in a loop there, implying that I was being deliberately stubborn and/or delusional. I expected her to tell me if I did not want to do it on her terms then I should just not come back, which she did not, to my great surprise.
She actually changed attitude when I got emotional - very very much against my will, but hey, what can you do...

As I mentioned to you guys before, once you get to see the doc, she is right there sitting next to him. She summarized our conversation, and doc confirmed what she told me earlier: he seems to be more tolerant and patient as far as AA and total sobriety go, but he's not. He also told me the med helps, but it is definitely not a solution.
(Btw: I still strongly believe in the proof of the opposite I read about here)

Therapist did not say it, but I have a feeling if I do not embrace the 12 steps program and all, they'll just tell me this is not going to work, aka get the hell out. WHICH WOULD BE TOTALLY FINE WITH ME: I almost did say it myself today, more than once I got very close, with her more than with him 'cos his approach is not that aggressive ( but still, he did say abstinence is mandatory, asap).

My only concern is where else to find the med. Husband suggested I talk my GP, but I know he is comfortable with Campral and Topa but not with prescribing something he does not know - so his nurse practitioner told me. Or I could ask Dr. L., right...?

It did even cross my mind that I could just lie to them, where I am going now, just to get Bac, but that person would just not be me. I hate hate hate being dishonest. And doc is doing all that I hoped he would, but one crucial thing...

It is beyond doubt that if they gave me an out-out I would just gladly walk.

She also keeps bringing up this tragic scenarios of people who wrecked their and their family's lives by drinking. I do not even drink and drive.
I can't see myself as one of those people who disappear for days and binge with strangers 24/7 or go through life savings for booze. ALL my respect and sympathy for the poor guys that have been through such nightmares and are reading this, but she kept saying that it's just a matter of time for me, that it will happen to me too, but I can't believe that... I need to believe that it won't! I need a positive approach, not a catastrophic one of doom... I need to see the light at the and of the damn tunnel, not a wreckage! It's not the right approach with me, no no no. Quite the opposite.

To make matters slightly worse, they take a urine sample from you every time to make sure you're not using drugs of any kind. But...
first of all: what if I were??
and most importantly: I am not on freaking probation! I am not in jail! I did not do anything wrong. Why the damn sample every time?? They say it's for their own health records... yeah right. They are not testing me for high cholesterol, are they?

Ok, sorry about this long venting. I got it it cannot work between me and her - for good. But what bombed me was realizing that it's probably not going to work with the doc either. I need to find another prescription for my Bac. Which sucks. It's like I had found a spark of hope and they snatched it right back from me. It sucks!!

Not gonna force AA on me. So it looks like I'll have to find my med elsewhere, soon...Did I mention it sucks??