Bac Insomia - Help

[fishcake]

Hey guys,

I'm currently at 275mg/day, still haven't switched, and will have to titrate up more.

Under 200mg/day, the insomnia was bearable. But now it is screwing up my entire sleep cycle: I have a very hard time falling asleep, staying asleep, and waking up. I keep being late at work and it sucks. I am doing good overall during the day though, not feeling too sleepy.

Any advice on which medication I should take to help me sleep? I would much prefer medication that doesn't require prescriptions.

Thanks!

[Xadrian]

Bac Insomia - Help

Have you tried zzzquil?

[fishcake]

Bac Insomia - Help

say what?

[fishcake]

Bac Insomia - Help

say what?

[Xadrian]

Bac Insomia - Help

I didn't come up with that name. It's like nyquil, but only for sleep aid.

Some of the flu meds have pretty strong sleepng aid qualities and you don't need a prescription.

[zampa75]

Bac Insomia - Help

Zzquill did not really work for me...If I don't drink it takes forever to fall asleep, so I tried that instead of Tylenol Pm exactly b/c it is only to fall asleep. But it did not work at all.

Nyquill, on the other hand, knocks me out like nothing else, but b/c it is for coughing/cold and stuff, I try not to take it if I am not sick.

So I'd give Tylenol pm a try. Except for once, it has always worked really well for me.

[fishcake]

Bac Insomia - Help

ok, I'll stop by wallgreens after work and try Tylenol PM. Thx

[zampa75]

Bac Insomia - Help

Welcome! I so hope it works for you. I know not being able to sleep SUUUCKS!

[Lo0p]

Bac Insomia - Help

Nyquil contans doxylamine succinate, I believe it's 12.5 mgs/dose. Tylenol PM has diphenhydramine hcl at 25 mgs/dose, along with 500 mgs of Tylenol (acetaminophen aka paracetamol outside of the US) which is bad for your liver. Acetaminophen is a factor in 25% of all liver failures. 4 grams (8 pills) per every 24 hours is the point at which it becomes hepatoxic. Add alcohol to the mix and that number drops dramatically.

I'd recommend against using a preparation of either one for an alcoholic that contains acetaminophen. Both are available OTC without acetaminophen.

Doxylamine is definitely the more powerful and longer lasting of the two. It is typically marketed in the United States under the brand name Unisom. And if I recall correctly the dosage is 25 mgs.

Both will stop working for most people pretty quickly, especially alcoholics. Both are antihistamines. Diphenhydramine is an H1 receptor antagonist. To my recollection there are no other OTC sleep aids beside those two. The active sleep ingredient in every single other one marketed (brand name or generic) is one of those two.

Correction: I just looked it up and found quite a few sources that said it was difficult to develop a tolerance to doxylamine. But I'm just on my tablet at the gym so i can't really verify anything. My personal experience (as if it means anything) contradicts this.

Personally, I think your best bet would be to alternate the two.

[thomas m]

Bac Insomia - Help

I had absolutely no luck with anything when titrating up first time out and I tried everything. Diphenhydramine gave me the most insane RLS imaginable. I know it isn't much help but my insomnia passed and apart from the crazy dreams I managed to start getting good (ish) sleep.

Regarding RLS... effervescent tablet (Berocca or any store brand alternative sorted that right out) Might have been the B12 I've read about. Sorry for going of topic.

Maybe small dose mitrazipine, seroquel, Z drugs, benzos (in moderation)

I've never had much luck with the herbal stuff but some do.

[Greg]

Bac Insomia - Help

Trazodone, L-tryptophan, and melatonin are other possibilities, ones that I have used for non-baclofen insomnia at various times. The following is what I have read and experienced with these.

Apparently trazodone doesn't just rely on H1 receptor antagonism for its sedative effects, but is more of a 5-HT-2A and alpha-1 receptor antagonist. I have found 50-75 mg to be helpful sometimes, although serious insomnia may need 100 mg or more (but with worse next-day sedation). I have read several times that it does not induce the tolerance that is typical with many sleep drugs, or at least not as quickly. Just be sure to use the immediate release form, not extended/slow release. Constipation can be a bit of a problem, but the drug is pretty short-acting compared to other sedating antidepressants.

L-tryptophan probably shouldn't be used with most antidepressants, as there is a theoretical risk of serotonin syndrome (although it has been used with antidepressants in the past when it was used more frequently). As a sleep aid, I have found 1500-2000 mg to be helpful. It should not be taken at the same time as other amino acids, or protein-containing foods, as this reduces its ability to reach the brain.

Melatonin needs to be taken as a time-release product, and not at homeopathic doses, in my opinion. I found some on Amazon. The standard 3 mg does not seem to work for me; 6-9 mg seems to be the dose I need.

I also just thought of something a doctor who treats bipolar disorder wrote about sleep drugs...he found that patients seem to be able to swap between benzos and z drugs for sleep without developing a serious tolerance to either, despite them both working (somewhat differently) via GABA-A receptors. There must be enough of a difference in their action for this to be possible.

[skullbabyland]

Bac Insomia - Help

I've been having good results taking melatonin 10mg with a 50mg benadryl. Sometimes I'll take a second 50mg benadryl too to really knock myself out, but I do worry that's too much benadryl... I'm thinking I should stop that and just cut back to one.

I'm going to also alternate Unisom with it, if the melatonin/benadryl stops working.