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    Hey guys,

    Checking in: I'm at 275mg/day currently, been on bac since 5/22/2013.

    Everything was going well with bac while titrating up progressively adding 20 or 25mg each week, until past the 200mg/day mark. From there I started having serious insomnia and concentration problems, which affected my performance and tardiness at work (I feel like im on the brink of getting fired). It's after reaching the 200 mark that I started experimenting too, getting drunk at parties, drinking alcoholically I would say, when I realized I drank more than the others. All this after 3 months AF. It was doing beautifully it's job: my goal was to be able to join social circles with alcohol involved, as it was compromised in the past with total abstinence programs I followed, notably AA. There were two slips during this experimenting, where I ended up drinking the next day, not WAY too much to my surprise, still a good amount but not piss drunk, and certainly not the third day.

    I felt like I was at a stage where I did not hit my switch, but bac at least prevented me from ending up in the infernal circle of being curled up in bed with gallons of vodka by my side and cutting all social life and work out til...insanity (that was my usual MO based on my last relapses, followed by 50-1-50s, Hospitals or Jail). Pffew, that was a relief, and thanks for that, bac! I felt confident that it was working, and went on to pursue titrating up til I hit that switch.

    Here's the deal: I've always had mood swings in the past, pre-bac, pretty intense ones, going from very negative to very positive thinking. I'm at a stage right now where these mood swings are even more intense. I went from literally crying of happiness this weekend to straight up depression/self loathing at the beginning of this week, and ongoing. I'm seriously wondering if bac is not directly involved. Anyone here ever experienced that? Pls do share.

    Also, the insomnia, man, it got worse, I would wake up every hour during my sleep, and either scratch intensively my hair (leaving scabs) or chewing my fingers to the point where I would wake up with bloody finger tips. Although 2 days go, I started this new bac schedule during the day. I don't do 100 (morning) - 75 (lunch) - 100 (before bed) anymore, I do a 50-50-50-50-50-25 schedule between when I wake up and no later than 5pm. That combined with sleeping pills (OTC Unisom) has, so far, improved my sleep and overall anxiousness during (my fingers are healing). It does make me dumber at work though...

    Guys, I'm at a point where I don't know what I should do. Continue titrating up and risk losing my job, losing ok sleep, getting more intense mood swings, but at least, in the end, reaching my switch. Or stay at 275mg for a while until things settle down (they do right? SOMEONE pls tell me they do). I don't want to consider titrating down, because I'm afraid it will make me very depressed (basing this on stories I've read here). Also today I tried 250, but freaked out and took the extra 25 that were missing, being afraid to lose my mind (I think this was more psychological). I almost feel stuck to be honest. Sometimes I feel like I traded one evil for another, the bac being the lesser evil, of course.

    I have no one to talk to about this besides MWO. My AA group has no clue all of this is going on, I still haven't been honest to them (not to mention that the guilt is starting to build up about that). My family and friends know I take bac, but have no clue how it's going right now, I didnt tell them I've experimented with alcohol nor that the SEs are this bad. I'm still at a point where I am waiting for some true success before I tell anyone. By that I mean it would be this pre-switch relationship I have with alcohol currently w/o the SEs. Or even better, hitting the switch and being able to titrate down and have few or no SEs.

    Writing this was actually therapeutic, I'm already freaking out less.

    I wish you well ladies and gentlemen,

    -FishCake

    #2
    Checking in

    fishcake;1540889 wrote: Hey guys,

    Checking in: I'm at 275mg/day currently, been on bac since 5/22/2013.

    Everything was going well with bac while titrating up progressively adding 20 or 25mg each week, until past the 200mg/day mark. From there I started having serious insomnia and concentration problems, which affected my performance and tardiness at work (I feel like im on the brink of getting fired). It's after reaching the 200 mark that I started experimenting too, getting drunk at parties, drinking alcoholically I would say, when I realized I drank more than the others. All this after 3 months AF. It was doing beautifully it's job: my goal was to be able to join social circles with alcohol involved, as it was compromised in the past with total abstinence programs I followed, notably AA. There were two slips during this experimenting, where I ended up drinking the next day, not WAY too much to my surprise, still a good amount but not piss drunk, and certainly not the third day.

    I felt like I was at a stage where I did not hit my switch, but bac at least prevented me from ending up in the infernal circle of being curled up in bed with gallons of vodka by my side and cutting all social life and work out til...insanity (that was my usual MO based on my last relapses, followed by 50-1-50s, Hospitals or Jail). Pffew, that was a relief, and thanks for that, bac! I felt confident that it was working, and went on to pursue titrating up til I hit that switch.

    Here's the deal: I've always had mood swings in the past, pre-bac, pretty intense ones, going from very negative to very positive thinking. I'm at a stage right now where these mood swings are even more intense. I went from literally crying of happiness this weekend to straight up depression/self loathing at the beginning of this week, and ongoing. I'm seriously wondering if bac is not directly involved. Anyone here ever experienced that? Pls do share.

    Also, the insomnia, man, it got worse, I would wake up every hour during my sleep, and either scratch intensively my hair (leaving scabs) or chewing my fingers to the point where I would wake up with bloody finger tips. Although 2 days go, I started this new bac schedule during the day. I don't do 100 (morning) - 75 (lunch) - 100 (before bed) anymore, I do a 50-50-50-50-50-25 schedule between when I wake up and no later than 5pm. That combined with sleeping pills (OTC Unisom) has, so far, improved my sleep and overall anxiousness during (my fingers are healing). It does make me dumber at work though...

    Guys, I'm at a point where I don't know what I should do. Continue titrating up and risk losing my job, losing ok sleep, getting more intense mood swings, but at least, in the end, reaching my switch. Or
    stay at 275mg for a while until things settle down (they do right? SOMEONE pls tell me they do). I don't want to consider titrating down, because I'm afraid it will make me very depressed (basing this on stories I've read here). Also today I tried 250, but freaked out and took the extra 25 that were missing, being afraid to lose my mind (I think this was more psychological). I almost feel stuck to be honest. Sometimes I feel like I traded one evil for another, the bac being the lesser evil, of course.

    I have no one to talk to about this besides MWO. My AA group has no clue all of this is going on, I still haven't been honest to them (not to mention that the guilt is starting to build up about that). My family and friends know I take bac, but have no clue how it's going right now, I didnt tell them I've experimented with alcohol nor that the SEs are this bad. I'm still at a point where I am waiting for some true success before I tell anyone. By that I mean it would be this pre-switch relationship I have with alcohol currently w/o the SEs. Or even better, hitting the switch and being able to titrate down and have few or no SEs.

    Writing this was actually therapeutic, I'm already freaking out less.

    I wish you well ladies and gentlemen,

    -FishCake
    Hey Fishcake,

    I feel you on the job thing as I was in a similar situation. I was tardy to work 3 times from a baclofen coma like sleep and was nearly fired on the spot the third time. I came up with an excuse that the antidepressant I was taking was making my drowsy, which put them in a discriminatory position had they fired me then. (They did end up firing me later on when "production slowed down", but I knew what the real reason was.)

    One thing you DO NOT EVER want to do is tell your employer that you have (or have had) an alcohol problem. You will be marked for death.

    Now, as far as feeling on the brink of being fired- if you're engaged in "willful misconduct" like being tardy repeatedly they can fire you on the spot. If you're underperforming, most companies institute a "performance improvement period" in which you have to meet certain performance metrics in a certain amount of time before they make the decision to fire you. If it comes to this you could either use this time to step down your dosage or look for another job.

    I don't know what your entire situation is, but it would be ideal if you could take a couple months off work to get to a maintenance dose and then pick up where you left off. You are subjecting yourself to a psychological/physiological ass kicking and possibly ruining your reputation in the process.

    Also, the switch is overrated. It's not a magical moment but more of a gradual realization that comes with behavioral changes. You may have already hit it and be beating yourself up because the magic isn't happening yet- it won't. You mentioned drinking alcoholically at parties and running in drinking social circles; that is precisely the thing that you have to put behind you because it's prolonging your agony and undoing your baclofen progress.

    Comment


      #3
      Checking in

      Thanks for the tips Fred, It's a long shot but I may be transitioning from this job to another, hopefully in 2 months. I could take advantage of that to take 45 days off between the two jobs.

      Today, I took the day off from work. I was again in a very low mood, and also, I think I pin pointed what these low moods are characterized by: immense anxiety.

      I went to buy a bottle of wine, not because I wanted to drink, but because I needed to lower my anxiety, and it's working. Tomorrow, I have a phone appointment with Dr. L, hopefully he can prescribe some xanax, I prefer that much more than alcohol.

      Can someone here in MWO please tell me if they relate to my case, I feel really alone and desperate right now, I don't know if bac is screwing with my brain or not.

      Thank you

      Comment


        #4
        Checking in

        Hey fishcake, sorry that you're having a tough time. The mood swings (hypomania/depression) can be a side-effect of baclofen. I definitely experienced them both and the depression (around 150mg/day) was one of the worst parts of my titration (the hypomania wasn't fun either). Insomnia is, of course very common, and I used melatonin, benedryl (diphenhydramine), and valerian root tincture with pretty good success. I have no experience taking benzos with baclofen (lots of experience pre-baclofen).

        When I got upwards of 200mg/day, every step up (+10mg every 7-8 days) was a difficult one. Shocks to the hands, visual flashes, and crazy sleep disturbances that took almost the whole week to resolve. When I hit my switch 4 days after reaching 280, it was like I was a vampire who had just been cured of vampirism. That's how it was for me, pretty much an epiphany.

        You might want to slow up and wait for your side-effects to level off, and it really makes things easier (in my opinion) if you can abstain whilst titrating up. Hope this helps. -tk
        TerryK celebrates 6 years of sobriety and indifference to alcohol thanks to baclofen

        Comment


          #5
          Checking in

          I also experienced hypomania, but mostly the manic side rather than the depressive side. As I see it, there are a couple of choices available to you.
          - You can go mad and push through, which probably will have consequences on your career, so perhaps not the best option. You will get there quicker though.
          - You can continue on your current path, which sounds like it will also have consequences.
          - Take it a bit slower. There's nothing wrong with this. You can go back to 250, I wouldn't expect this to have any consequences other than a reduction in SE's, and if it does you can simply go back up. I think there has been a spate of posts recently where a couple of people have experienced depression on the way down, I wouldn't say that this is typical though, and you shouldn't be frightened of it. Then just slowly go up from there.

          All the SE's will pass when you are at a stable dose for a while.

          Comment


            #6
            Checking in

            Hi Fishcake

            All I can say is I myself had a really rough time with baclofen, I really tried but it wasn't for me. I had wierd thoughts, was depressed and zombied most of the time. I was puffy, water retention and had incredibly oily hair and skin. At the time many people told me to push on, get the dosage upped.

            My advice is decide what you need to do for you, push on if you want and need to but do not be afraid to question and stop if you feel it's not for you.

            I wasn't sure then went to see a very knowledgeable Dr specialising in addiction in the UK, who told me baclofen wasn't for me - my drinking at that time wasn't for the reasons baclofen targets. He did agree to prescribe Naltrexone for the Sinclair method and I've never looked back.

            Baclofen works for some people, but not everyone.
            I used the Sinclair Method to beat my alcoholic drinking.

            Drank within safe limits for almost 2 years

            AF date 22/07/13

            Comment


              #7
              Checking in

              I tried pushing through and sort of got stuck in limbo. I'm not working so had the luxury of being able to just drop out if SEs got too much which they did in the end. I pushed north of 300 in 4 weeks maybe. Too drastic looking back. I could have kept going or maybe hung around at 300ish. Even tried to find my dose on the way down?

              I was tripping, no kidding. Walking to the shop was as far as I got.

              Running out of supplies answered my question in the end and I tapered down in a week with Valium. I couldn't imagine pushing through SEs while working. Maybe I would have got there, who knows? Its done now.

              Second attempt. I went and did the same thing. Tapered up to 300 in even less time This time things got scary. I was paranoid and borderline psychotic. I think my experience with psychedelics pulled me through. Another taper with Valium and that was that for the hero titration's.

              This time I've went 20mg every 3 days split in 3 just like I should have all along in hindsight and am sitting at 140mg as of today. I'm not drinking too much but I'm probably gonna have to go north of 200 (maybe not) I'll definitely let each dose settle so as not to push through and maybe skipping my key "dose"
              ------------------

              Sorry I got sort of off track there But you get the picture. Pushing through might or might not get you there. You might end up hating yourself and calling it a day altogether. Have you thought about trying Antabuse to help you get a head start? I don't think I could get up over 150 again if I was drinking heavily. The SEs multiply imo.

              Comment


                #8
                Checking in

                Thanks for the feedback, will be on the phone with Dr L. in 2 hours. I will ask him for a prescription of xanax/or valium, I'm having severe panic attacks. I'm on my second day at 250, that's 25 less then usual.

                I'll keep you updated on my mental health.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Checking in

                  ok, got off the phone with him, will get some xanax tomorrow morning. Hopefully this will help, I sometimes feel like im about to lose my mind

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Checking in

                    also he said none of his patients experienced mood swings or anxiety... WTF

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Checking in

                      Well this fucking blows, apparently Dr L can't provide prescriptions out of state for California anymore! He is facing a lawsuit because of that. So I can't get baclofen from him anymore. Idk what to do guys....ANYBODY know a Dr in California willing to prescribe high doses of baclofen?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Checking in

                        fishcake;1541720 wrote: Well this fucking blows, apparently Dr L can't provide prescriptions out of state for California anymore! He is facing a lawsuit because of that. So I can't get baclofen from him anymore. Idk what to do guys....ANYBODY know a Dr in California willing to prescribe high doses of baclofen?
                        This is going to put a right spanner in the works for some people.
                        I used the Sinclair Method to beat my alcoholic drinking.

                        Drank within safe limits for almost 2 years

                        AF date 22/07/13

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Checking in

                          fishcake;1541720 wrote: Well this fucking blows, apparently Dr L can't provide prescriptions out of state for California anymore! He is facing a lawsuit because of that. So I can't get baclofen from him anymore. Idk what to do guys....ANYBODY know a Dr in California willing to prescribe high doses of baclofen?
                          Here is some information provided by mwo'ers in the past

                          SF/Bay Area, USA

                          An mwo member, Suneeleca, has information regarding a doctor in the Bay Area who is familiar with Baclofen.

                          Dr. Lawrence Doyle of the Plymouth branch of Family Practice at Sutter Amador Hospital -- Laurence L. Doyle, NP - Phone & Address Info – Jackson, CA - Nursing (NP) was at one time responding to questions about Baclofen.

                          An mwo member, Want2BWell, has posted a link to a doctor in San Francisco CA who will prescribe Baclofen for Alcohol Addiction. He requires an initial visit of 1 - 1.5 hours (at $400 an hour) with him, followed by a monthly visit with him at the same rate, and weekly or bi-weekly visits to a therapist in his practice at the rate of 200 an hour. He is an out of pocket doctor aside from some possible reimbursements via PPO health care providers. His contact info is: Addiction Treatment | My Doctor Medical Group
                          With profound appreciation to Dr Olivier Ameisen for his brilliant insight and courageous determination

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Checking in

                            Correction:Laurence L. Doyle, NP - Phone & Address Info ?€“ Jackson, CA - Nursing (NP)

                            His protocol last time I spoke with him (2 years ago) was 30-30-30 a day. edit:--Though he's a Stanford educated alcoholic and said he'd keep up with the research.

                            This is about 45 minutes Southwest of Sacramento.
                            :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                            :what?:
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                            Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                            Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




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