My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

[Jalapeno]

Hello,
I'm glad I found this forum.
Yesterday I started with baclofen 5mg x 4, very optimistic right now as only minor (some spaced our feeling) SE's I'm having.

My history is that i drink since I'm 13 but sporadic. Then at 18 started to binge drink on weekends, then at 22 i increased the consumption on some weekdays + weekend binge, then i got difficult to sleep (only to fall sleep), then i added benzodiazepines to the mix (only to help me to sleep), and finally i binge drink every night +benzo and cannot fall easily to sleep. 42M.

Recently discovered that -for my special case- mixing benzo+alcohol made me want more alcohol instead of taking me to sleep.

Every day I try not to go over 12 cans of lite beer or half a bottle of scotch+soda and most days I "succeed" at not surpassing this amount. Other days I can easily double that. With my AL consumption, i have put 20 kilos of extra weight that I need to shred.

That is the mess I have become

My English is not so good, I hope i can share some of my experience here and find some advices.

Greetings to the community.
Jalape?o.

[kronkcarr]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Hi, Jalapeno,

Welcome. Baclofen has worked wonders for a bunch of us here. I started baclofen in mid December last year and am so glad I did. I don't have experience with benzodiazepines but someone will chime in about that. Read lots and ask whatever questions you have.

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Thanks Kron,
Indeed, I have read a lot of posts before initiating this one; plenty of helpful information here!

Insomnia has become a big issue for me (additional to drink AL) and in the past I have tried natural stuff (like valerian, etc), melatonin, and several other "weak" stuff (for me).

Once I tried a low dose seroquel, but reacted very badly and became very depressed for a day. As I have never been diagnosed with depression, now I want to stay away from medications (antipsychotics) that lower even more my dopamine levels. I believe one of the reasons I crave AL everyday is because I'm looking to increase dopa levels while lowering my anxiety. BTW, I have never done illegal drugs and I don't smoke, because I'm very afraid of getting a extra addiction.

Other thing I tried is strong Histamine H2 antagonists (not benadryl, but doxepin and mirtazapine) with limited success. Doxepin, instead of sleepy, made me scary dizzy that i wanted to put a foot on the floor while in bed. Mirtazapine was almost ok but with the very common SE, increased my carb craving; bad combination for someone overweight. Not sure if antihistamines deserve another chance.

Because of my insomnia, I cannot wake up everyday at the same hour (fortunately my job allows it), otherwise I'm aware of sleep hygiene aspects.

As you said, hopefully someone here has had some experience with insomnia and can add advice

Edit: Other things I have tried are gabapentin and pregabalin for anxiety wishing that would help to sleep, but they had no effect on me at all.

[YouKayBee]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Benzos are highly addictive quite a few alcoholics end up dependent upon them and it makes the whole detox process longer and more complicated. Not sure if baclofen can help with Benzos, I do know benzos don't help with baclofen withdrawal.

Sorry you are in this mess and I hope baclofen can help you.

I know benzos aren't recommended when on the Sinclair Method which uses a different medication - partly I believe because it mucks up the addiction/deaddiction process. I have a theory that it simply does put your guard down so that you drink more - on TSM you need to drink as you feel, not as another medication makes you feel.

Unsure how Baclofen works with this combination but I have a feeling it can certainly help with both alcohol and benzo withdrawal.

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Hi Uk,
At this point, I believe I can become benzo free (tapering off) if I find a substitution for insomnia. I take 2mg of clonazepam only at night and feel confident that addiction has not become as strong as AL.

Good point is that I never use benzos to control my anxiety (i use alcohol for that) or to enhance AL "feel good" sensation (I binge AL for that).

As I haven't found a substitution for insomnia, that is why I continue with benzos.

[Eagle1234]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Jalapeno;1546891 wrote: Hi Uk,
At this point, I believe I can become benzo free (tapering off) if I find a substitution for insomnia. I take 2mg of clonazepam only at night and feel confident that addiction has not become as strong as AL.

Good point is that I never use benzos to control my anxiety (i use alcohol for that) or to enhance AL "feel good" sensation (I binge AL for that).

As I haven't found a substitution for insomnia, that is why I continue with benzos.

I'm in a similar position to you, one of the reasons why i started drinking was to help me sleep , self medicate my anxiety and well it was fun too. I tried a few years ago to switch out alcohol with xanax for sleep. Ended up becoming addicted to that and getting scary withdrawals. I began drinking again and tapered off the xanax over about 6 months which was hell. You might not think you are as addicted to clozapam but if you go without it for a few days you might change your mind.

I would just start the baclofen and taper off the benzos while drinking. If you can reach indifference then it will be so much easier to taper off and hopefully it should help with the withdrawals. I was doing valium to the point where i was going to get a mild withdrawal when i started baclofen and i was able to stop abruptly. I was only taking 5mg of valium a day though, not much but you can still get a nasty withdrawal from that due to kindling with past benzo use.

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Eagle1234;1546941 wrote: I'm in a similar position to you, one of the reasons why i started drinking was to help me sleep , self medicate my anxiety and well it was fun too. I tried a few years ago to switch out alcohol with xanax for sleep. Ended up becoming addicted to that and getting scary withdrawals. I began drinking again and tapered off the xanax over about 6 months which was hell. You might not think you are as addicted to clozapam but if you go without it for a few days you might change your mind.

I would just start the baclofen and taper off the benzos while drinking. If you can reach indifference then it will be so much easier to taper off and hopefully it should help with the withdrawals. I was doing valium to the point where i was going to get a mild withdrawal when i started baclofen and i was able to stop abruptly. I was only taking 5mg of valium a day though, not much but you can still get a nasty withdrawal from that due to kindling with past benzo use.

Well, that is also my plan: I'm starting baclofen while drinking and slowly tappering off clonazepam. I could increase my drinking even more until the point of falling sleep, but not an easy choice since AL is stimulant/euphoric for me for the most part. That is, i have never been able to sleep because I'm relaxed with alcohol, but because I'm drunk and it's late.
So my idea is to tapper off clona while drinking the same (or hopefully less every week) but i need to find a way to fall sleep, maybe adding something to the benzo meanwhile, tho i don't know what.

Tried to add some easy exercising (

[spiritwolf333]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Hi Jal- glad to see you giving it a sober try. From my experience, it only gets worse -the drinking that is. I took the Xanax the day following my binges (every day-lol) just so that I could attend meetings and speak. None of that really matters. If you are tired of the same ole stuffffff, baclofen will give you a real shot at freedom. (Sounds like u may already know this). I don't care how much you drink, when you drink, or what you may be trying to cover, the fact is this: all alcoholics and normal drinkers are trying to change the way they feel when they drink. Problem for alcoholics is that our brain chemistry is wired to eventually accept alcohol should be a normal way of life -and guess what?

Glad you are trying baclofen. It was my final way out. What a miracle. I do know this; one has to be at a final drop off point with alcohol or nothing is going to,stop the firewater intake. Peace to ya.

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

spiritwolf333;1547030 wrote: ... all alcoholics and normal drinkers are trying to change the way they feel when they drink. Problem for alcoholics is that our brain chemistry is wired to eventually accept alcohol should be a normal way of life -and guess what?

Great point, sounds obvious, but is not even close obvious for us!

Thanks and greetings Spirit.

[YouKayBee]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Jalapeno

Just wanted to say your English is very good, and this is from a native proper UK English speaker.

Glad you've veered away from other drugs, legal or illegal anything addictive is bad for alcoholics. I found Nytol very good however leaves me with a hangover the next day so I only ever take it in extreme need.

There are some amino acids in some sports supplements for bedtime aimed at athletes, supposed to aid deeper sleep, but not sure they'd have an affect on someone with real bad insomnia.

I'm glad you mentioned anxiety because baclofen is supposed to target this as a reason for drinking. I'm a worrier but I drank for release and a buzz so baclofen wouldn't work for me.

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

My third day on Baclofen, 20mg/day, this is my update:

Only one disabling SE: Strong postpandrial somnolence. Anytime with any meal.

As that happens even for breakfast and a nap would be bad for my insomnia, I'm considering Tyrosine that i have on hand. Diet coke and green tea caffeine seem very weak for that matter.

I noticed that taking a couple of beers, that disappear, probably due the dopaminergic effect. I almost never drink for breakfast (unless very hangover, I add Clamato+Lime+Salt+Spicy Tabasco Sauce to a beer or vodka... and voil?) and certainly don't want to acquire that habit at this point.

Good thing is that somnolence last only 2 hours after the meal.

About AL consumption, I have reduced from 12 beer every night, to 8-10. But mostly with willpower, as bac effect is barely noticeable yet.

:thanks: UK for your words

[skullbabyland]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

Hi Jalapeno, welcome to the forums. Happy to hear you've started your baclofen journey :welcome:

Just wanted to say that it can be a long process before you become more indifferent to alcohol. How fast are you titrating up with baclofen?

As for SE's, I can say that somnolence during the day and insomnia at night can be problematic but both have decreased over time for me- I hardly notice them anymore so hopefully you'll have a similar experience.

And even while the SE's are bad, it's worth just getting through them. I'm new to sobriety but already my life is improving very noticeably.

Good luck and best to you!
Skullbaby

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

skullbabyland;1547294 wrote: Hi Jalapeno, welcome to the forums. Happy to hear you've started your baclofen journey :welcome:

Just wanted to say that it can be a long process before you become more indifferent to alcohol. How fast are you titrating up with baclofen?

As for SE's, I can say that somnolence during the day and insomnia at night can be problematic but both have decreased over time for me- I hardly notice them anymore so hopefully you'll have a similar experience.

And even while the SE's are bad, it's worth just getting through them. I'm new to sobriety but already my life is improving very noticeably.

Good luck and best to you!
Skullbaby

Hello Skullbaby, thanks for your kind words.

My plan so far is to become bacloholic in a similar way I became alcoholic:
I'm starting with 20 mg/day in 4 doses and plan to increase every Thursday (10mg) and Saturday (the big day, 20mg) in smaller doses, 6 or so.
Just like beer, not that I drink in larger cans/bottles, but now I drink more of them in -say- 8 hours, compared with several years ago

Will monitor my SEs in case I need to follow a 5 day increment strategy or go slower.
What do you think?

Greetings to the MWO community

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

I cannot binge any more!

Last night, after I increasing the dose to 40 mg/day, I noticed I cannot binge anymore!

I feel so encouraged: after half a bottle of scotch+soda I was getting drunk, but suddenly my cravings were totally capped to the point of having to stop completely!
Had dinner (In Mexico we take it at night instead of evening), then took my usual benzo, went to sleep and had no insomnia at all; 8 straight hours of great sleep.

Since now its Saturday here and only significant SE I'm having is strong postpandrial somnolence, i will try to increase further the dose to 60mg today and keep that dose until next Thursday or weekend. I'm managing PP Somnolence with small quantity of alcohol itself, because of their high dopaminergic properties on me. Hopefully not needed next week if this SE subside.

If sleep keeps being so nice this next week, will also start tappering off my benzo.

I feel so happy with baclofen, is starting to change my life already!

[Jalapeno]

My Every Night Binge Drinker - Insomniac Journey

I'm now at 120mg/day.
The positives:
a) Don't have the euphoric effects of alcohol.
b) Very frequently but not always, i can stop drinking after having a meal.
c) Uniform sleep, once I can sleep I don't wake up until 8 hours later.

The negatives:
a) Weak legs SE doesn't go away yet.
b) My long time Insomnia is not fixed yet, but it seems it's improving slowly.
c) I feel drugged at this dose, spaced out, a side effect that also doesn't go away after more than a week.
d) Average alcohol consumption per week is barely 20% less than before.
e) I feel a little demotivated as this seems like a lot of bac already, not sure if I can handle more of it.
f) Not reaching my goal by any means. But I believe that now I have more psychological addiction that psychical addition. i.e. i drink because my mind says and not because my body says. Anybody have this experience or would like to give me some hope with details of his/her experience?