SSRIs and alcoholism

[neophyte]

I recently stumbled upon the web that SSRIs and other anti depressants can cause increased cravings for alcohol. I first became a daily drinker when i was on zoloft, however i had been on zoloft for a number of years before becoming a daily drinker but even before becoming a daily drinker i would never miss a weekend without drinking, so perhaps SSRIs encouraged my alcoholism? once i became a daily drinker though i went off zoloft, i always blamed going off zoloft for making my alcoholism worse.

im now 31 days AF on high dose baclofen (175mg). i still do get some cravings but they aren't huge.

I've read in Dr A's book that Baclofen reduced his anxiety, which is why i took zoloft in the first place. I'm now toying with the idea of going off zoloft since Baclofen can now provide me with reduced anxiety.

I was wondering, has anyone else noticed increase cravings for alcohol when on anti depressants SSRIs of other types?

How does baclofen work for those who have anxiety disorders? Has it helped reduce anxiety decently?

thanks!

[Tom321]

SSRIs and alcoholism

First , congrats on 31 days. As for the Zoloft...I've taken it for almost a year now and for most of that time I was drinking. When I started taking it I had read about increased cravings as well and my drinking did seem to escalate soon after but I think that was just a natural progression. I can tell you that as I get further and further into sobriety it seems to help me more and more. I have no physical or mental cravings whatsoever. Hope this helps.
Tom

[Fred_The_Cat]

SSRIs and alcoholism

I just quit zoloft as of today, so I will let you know if my cravings go down any. I think the main thing zoloft did was rev up my appetite, which landed me in the bar for greasy pub food more oft than i'd like to admit.

One thing that I can DEFINITELY say contributed to my alcohol use was abilify. I was on 10 mg and paced and shook so much that I felt on the verge of exploding. Only drinking to passing out could calm me down. It was nasty stuff.

If you're getting akathesia side effects from zoloft like I got from Abilify (it's a less likely but possible side effect) I'd point the finger at zoloft.

[Peralik]

SSRIs and alcoholism

While taking cymbalta (an SSNRI) I noticed that I could drink alcohol and feel less of an effect, ie not feel drunk easily. This led me to drink much more occasionally, as if the inner barrier was gone.

[Fred_The_Cat]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Bingo! I think you're onto something. Zoloft retards metabolism and sends a lot of calories straight to your gut instead of burning them, making you hungrier to compensate. Alcohol fits the bill nicely to fuel the energy defecit, as it is a preferred source of energy (acetate) over nutritious sources of energy. Alcohol is also awesome with food, sadly.

Within a day of going off zoloft completely, my appetite was slashed. I was eating half of what I was and going back to my usual one meal a day from three years ago. Now- for the alcohol. Last night was a gorgeous fall evening and I was playing guitar on the patio and felt like cracking one open. I finished it and left it at that, seeing no point in continuing. Since I wasn't hungry, the beer couldn't stand on its own and I left it at one.

Contrast this with earlier this year when I was starving at 4:00 and craved greasy pub food washed down with yuengling in a frosty fishbowl mug. Once your appetite goes out the window, so does your resolve.


I think one needs to be off of all other substances to truly experience the baclofen switch.

[Samandkatharine]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Baclofen has turned out to be my AD. I've tried them all, but realized it wasn't depression, but horrible anxiety that never abated until I started Bac and decreased my alcohol down to 0-1 glass of wine.

Alcohol is a depressant, so going AF would be helpful.

Sam

[Otter]

SSRIs and alcoholism

I have been banging on about SSRIs on this forum for years now. Yes, there is a lot written about them not being good for alcoholism. SSRIs work by containing existing serotonin but most alcoholics don't have any serotonin so it is useless for them. They are a "dirty" drug in that they are very old and have been superceded by new drugs which work on the serotonin receptors, such as Mirtazapine. I am really surprised that any doctor still prescribes SSRIs at all to anyone. They have been associated with many suicides and deaths.

Many who are depressed are actually suffering from an anxiety type depression which responds well to baclofen while others do have serotonin issues which respond to Mirtazapine. Mirtazapine has had good reports in those with alcohol problems. Baclofen is used by Dr. Jonathan Chick in treatment of depression and he says it works in many cases where traditional antidepressants don't.

SSRIs present problems in withdrawal. My advice is to see a doctor about switching to a newer antidepressant such as mirtazapine.

The problem with SSRIs in alcoholism is that virtually no doctor sees alcoholism as an illness, in reality. So, they prescribe SSRIs without doing any research into their effectiveness or risks in alcoholism. They don't need to because if anyone killed themselves because the SSRIs and the alcoholism pushed them over the edge, they would just blame it on the "self inflicted" alcoholism...

[Tom321]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Otter;1568766 wrote: I have been banging on about SSRIs on this forum for years now. Yes, there is a lot written about them not being good for alcoholism. SSRIs work by containing existing serotonin but most alcoholics don't have any serotonin so it is useless for them. They are a "dirty" drug in that they are very old and have been superceded by new drugs which work on the serotonin receptors, such as Mirtazapine. I am really surprised that any doctor still prescribes SSRIs at all to anyone. They have been associated with many suicides and deaths.

Many who are depressed are actually suffering from an anxiety type depression which responds well to baclofen while others do have serotonin issues which respond to Mirtazapine. Mirtazapine has had good reports in those with alcohol problems. Baclofen is used by Dr. Jonathan Chick in treatment of depression and he says it works in many cases where traditional antidepressants don't.

SSRIs present problems in withdrawal. My advice is to see a doctor about switching to a newer antidepressant such as mirtazapine.

The problem with SSRIs in alcoholism is that virtually no doctor sees alcoholism as an illness, in reality. So, they prescribe SSRIs without doing any research into their effectiveness or risks in alcoholism. They don't need to because if anyone killed themselves because the SSRIs and the alcoholism pushed them over the edge, they would just blame it on the "self inflicted" alcoholism...

This is a pretty extreme post. You cant say alcoholics have "no" seratonin. That's medically impossible. SSRI's do work at containing existing seratonin AND making the best use of what seratonin there is. You can definitely point to plenty of studies that suggest it's a bad drug for alcoholics just as I'm sure you could find tons of alcoholics who did very well with the combination. And to say they have been responsible for many suicides and deaths is an irresponsible statement, you can say the same about painkillers, benzos, and many more drugs. They are not a miracle pill by any means and carry their own dangers just like anything else but trying to scare people off of them and blanket criticizing all doctors who prescribe them seems extreme to me.

[StuckinLA]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Just throwing in a couple cents:

What Happened to Psychiatry's Magic Bullets? : The New Yorker

[Otter]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Tom321;1568777 wrote: This is a pretty extreme post. You cant say alcoholics have "no" seratonin. That's medically impossible. SSRI's do work at containing existing seratonin AND making the best use of what seratonin there is. You can definitely point to plenty of studies that suggest it's a bad drug for alcoholics just as I'm sure you could find tons of alcoholics who did very well with the combination. And to say they have been responsible for many suicides and deaths is an irresponsible statement, you can say the same about painkillers, benzos, and many more drugs. They are not a miracle pill by any means and carry their own dangers just like anything else but trying to scare people off of them and blanket criticizing all doctors who prescribe them seems extreme to me.

I am happy with the post. Alcohol depletes serotonin. Alcoholics end up with no serotonin. SSRIs are an old drug. Why would anyone take a medication which has been surpassed and was developed in the sixties? As for their safety, look at the FDA ranking of SSRIs and you will find they are about the most dangerous of prescription drugs being prescribed. Doctors don't treat alcoholism as an illness so they are shooting in the dark when it comes to giving an alcoholic SSRIs. It is a stupid thing to do and I would advise anyone taking them to study the various alternatives and seek the best medical advice on them, as I have.

[Tom321]

SSRIs and alcoholism

That's fine, I have no issue whatsoever with your opinion, just the wording.

[Otter]

SSRIs and alcoholism

StuckinLA;1568783 wrote: Just throwing in a couple cents:

What Happened to Psychiatry's Magic Bullets? : The New Yorker

Good article. The pharmaceutical industry are finally coming around to realizing that SSRIs are useless and dangerous. Well done!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Please keep in mind that Otter is not a doctor. Not even close. He is also not an alcoholic. He has VERY strong opinions about many, many things. He has read lots of stuff. He's smart.

Otter, no offense intended of course. That said, I know I've said and written before that I don't think it's right/fair/reasonable for you to provide information that is potentially damning or damaging without backing it up.

I know several people in my 3D life, and several people on this forum, who have found relief from depression with SSRIs.

And that said, I would never (personally) take another SSRI. Which is very different than saying that they are terrible drugs and absolutely without merit. If they work, great. If they don't, there are other options.

[StuckinLA]

SSRIs and alcoholism

Otter;1568789 wrote: Good article. The pharmaceutical industry are finally coming around to realizing that SSRIs are useless and dangerous. Well done!

Not sure where you're reading "dangerous," or even "useless" in that article. My point in referencing it was that seratonin levels don't correlate with SSRI effectiveness.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

SSRIs and alcoholism

I posted something earlier and then deleted it, because I really don't have time to follow up with this should it turn into the usual thing...
But then I got a PM. So I'll repost.

Otter is a (very) smart guy who knows a lot of things about a lot of things. But he is not a doctor. He is not even remotely trained in anything medical related. He is also very opinionated. VERY strongly opinionated. He is also not an alcoholic. I am not sharing information that he hasn't shared here already.

Otter, no offense of course. You and I have had several discussions in the past about the fact that you post information as though it was factual when in fact it is not. It is an opinion. So, it is your opinion that SSRIs are dangerous and useless. This opinion is no doubt based on information you've gleaned from somewhere. Okay. But fact? hmmmm.

I know several people in my 3D life and several people from the forum who have found SSRIs to be useful. While I would not personally take an SSRI again, it's unreasonable to suggest that something so widely used, and found useful by so many, is bad.

Furthermore, that article, had you read it Otter, is written by one of those guys who believes that mental illness should primarily be diagnosed and treated with psychosocial stuff. If you read any of his other blog entries, it will become very clear very quickly that he is one of the ones (like Dodes and Mate) who would dismiss baclofen and possibly even suggest, like Dodes for sure, that it is a crutch and does not actually treat anything. He might go so far as to say it's a placebo effect. Who knows? Maybe he's right. Glad it worked for me and mine.

Edit: Nah. He's not right. He's an idiot. He's been writing for decades about the fact that biological approaches to mental illness undermine treatment. I couldn't find any information about his background or qualifications, and it only says that he's a psychotherapist. (He is also obviously pretty well respected, I guess. And I'm just a former alcoholic who reads a lot. So wth do I know? I cannot wait until I know. )

Hope it's a good day, or afternoon, or evening, MWO peeps.