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**chelsea98** · October 21, 2013, 09:06 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

im also not sure if i'm dosing correctly. as i said, im on 18 tabs a day. im doing 5 in the morning, 6 when i get home and 7 a little before bed. is there a better way to dose which would bring benefits quicker? my wife contacted a doctor in northern england who said a lot of it is down to dosing correctly but (and maybe i'm being tight and/or cynical) i reckon he'd love to have me as a patient as its just money into his coffers.

**YouKayBee** · October 21, 2013, 12:16 PM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

Who's the Dr?

I believe with baclofen the trick is spacing the doses equally.

chelsea98;1571595 wrote: hi,

sorry if this rambles on a bit.so i've been on bac since june 4th and am now up to 180mg per day. since i've pushed past 150 i'm now getting a whole raft of side effects (i only had drowsiness up to 150) and i don't know how worried i should be. the worst is the shallow breathing where it feels i have to force myself to inhale.it's woken me up numerous times and continues to do so and has worried the shit out of me and my wife is worried too. my sleep is also screwed, less sleep which is ok but i find myself waking at stupid times of the night as well. i also have a lot of itching all over, but quite often on my neck. the daytime drowsiness is now quite strong but luckily i work on my own so can work with around it.i also have a sense of smoothness to my taste, as if i have a silk lining in my mouth, strange, and just recently, my sense of smell has vastly increased. the main worry i have is about my breathing. i've moved doctors so was going to tell them about it but as i'm getting private prescriptions up to 100mg and i've bought a supply to take me up to where im at 180 now and beyond, i don't think i should really mention it in case they take me off it straight away, but it's still quite worrying.

when it comes to my drinking, bac has completely stopped my blackouts which is an absolute joy but it's not slowing me down. i've still been soldiering on at my usual levels (15-18units per night), probably hoping that bac would stop me on it's own. as of today, im stopping drinking completely as i really must help it do it's stuff instead of hindering it. i always thought that you could merrily drink away on it and it would stop me, have i got that wrong? also, because i dont have blackouts anymore, i think i've lost the serious intent to stop drinking a little bit and i don't want to lose sight of the reason im on bac in the first place and i'm worried about that too.

i know a lot of the side effects are to be expected but should i be overly worried about the breathing? it's ok to deal with but i don't want to forget to breathe and not wake up!! should i have been lowering my beer intake? i've been going at the same levels as i said and am stopping outright from today (i once did 2 months with nothing but strong resolve built up via councilling). i still have beer thoughts though if i can get a solid two weeks under my belt from today I'm hoping the bac can start changing that because i don't really want to go pushing past the 200 mark but if needs must....

any advice/guidance/encouragement is greatly appreciated as it's getting tough.

ps: im also not sure if i'm dosing correctly. as i said, im on 18 tabs a day. im doing 5 in the morning, 6 when i get home and 7 a little before bed. is there a better way to dose which would bring benefits quicker? my wife contacted a doctor in northern england who said a lot of it is down to dosing correctly but (and maybe i'm being tight and/or cynical) i reckon he'd love to have me as a patient as its just money into his coffers.

**neophyte** · October 21, 2013, 02:28 PM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

hey chelsea, i dont feel qualified to give advice but i can tell you my experience. I started in early Aug and im now up to 200mg, i had most of the side effects you did, the sleep thing is probably the most annoying i.e. waking up constantly. I have restless leg syndrome when i go up in dose which makes sleep even harder. As for the dangers of shallow breathing, i cant say how dangerous it is, i experienced it and my partner was worried when i was asleep that i would stop breathing, but im still here. other side effects were extremely unpleasant hang overs, particularly the anxiety the next day when waking up. I also found that when drinking my cravings were reduced, however once i started drinking i was drinking more because baclofen was taking away the euphoria i would normally get being drunk, so i would try to chase that high with mroe alocohol.

vets on here encouraged me to try and go AF and let bac do its thing, when i did this the side effects improved massively. after about two weeks steady on 175mg and AF i was able to sleep through the whole night and the side effects from bac were greatly reduced. Maybe that would work for you too.

i had a bit of a slip up with drinking over the past 11 days, 6 days involved alcohol which is indication that im slipping so i need to step back and think about if im going to continue drinking at all. I still have cravings so i increased my dose to 200mg a few days ago, im again getting the side effects mentioned, last night sleeping was rough, constantly waking up but still its easier than when drinking as well.

**bleep** · October 21, 2013, 05:07 PM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

That's a reasonably quick titration, so those SE's are pretty normal. The breathing thing is safe, but can be alarming. I wouldn't panic. I bet it is more alarming for your wife, who has to listen to you apparently stop breathing, and then suddenly start again in a great big gasp!

Going up quickly will result in more SE's, but you get there quicker. It's a trade off. The SE's won't kill you, but they can be unpleasant to live with. They will fade once you can remain at a dosage for a length of time. As long as you are increasing, you can expect SE's to appear. Going slowly will also result in SE's but there is a chance they will not be so severe. If they are really screwing up your life, its an option to go really slowly, but I have seen people get fed up going this way.

Splitting your dose may help, and is worth a try. Fiddle with various combinations to see what works best, although I doubt it will make a major difference. I used to be an advocate of many small doses, but I'm not 100% convinced that it makes significant differences anymore. As I said though, worth a try.

You should notice a big difference if you manage to stop drinking, especially after a day or 2. You are right in saying that baclofen won't stop you drinking entirely. It will certainly slow you down, but it is possible to plow straight through indifference and not even know - that's why giving drinking a break is such a good idea.

Again, as others have said, this is also only an opinion! There is only so much weight you can give to all the advice you may receive - the biggest thing with baclofen is to listen to what your body is telling you. It is a safe drug though, in terms of dying from it. It is extremely difficult to kill yourself with baclofen, even people who try can't take enough!

Best of luck.

**StuckinLA** · October 22, 2013, 02:09 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

Sounds like you're exactly where I was at one point. OK, I hesitate to use words like "exactly," but your post reminded me so much of me about 2 - 2 1/2 years ago. (My God, could that be right!? How long have I been on MWO where has the time gone!!?)

Sorry. Anyway, yeah I was sober the first 2 months that I started bac, and I went up to 150 pretty quickly and only experienced the afternoon drowsiness. I felt good. Then I drank and I decided to continue going up. Above 150 I had a lot of panic and insomnia and the breathing thing. God, it was horrible. Every night when I went to bed without drinking I'd feel like I would stop breathing, and I'd wake up in absolute terror and felt like I couldn't breathe. If I "went to sleep" by drinking until I passed out, I'd be fine. :H

But yeah, above 150 was like that for me and it was a pain in the nuts. I went as high as 240, and there were some plateaus in there (can't remember where) that were good, and I felt fewer SEs, but mostly it was not very pleasant. Did stop me from drinking though, I'll tell you that.

Best of luck. I'm happy to chat more - or you can read some of my thread, as I went on about the insomnia and breathing and panic quite a bit there.

**chelsea98** · October 22, 2013, 09:52 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

@ukblonde, i think the doctor was phill thomas though i haven't confirmed with my wife as yet.

@neophyte, thanks for your input. i didn't drink at all last night and i slept a lot better. i didnt realise i had restless leg syndrome as well until my wife pointed it out, i tend to twitch anyway as i have a trapped nerve in my shoulder but didnt know about the leg.i hope you can get "back on the wagon" so to speak and i wish you nothing but the best of luck.

@palladium, many thanks for your reply. i wasnt aware of the french prescribing guide but it sounds sensible so i'll definitely give it a go. as i've said, no beer last night and none for the forseeable future and i did literally breathe easily last night!! result!! and I don't think anyone on here is an expert (much less any doctors), but everyone brings a wealth of knowledge if they've been through/are going through this so i very much value your input.

@bleep i'm glad to hear your thoughts about the breathing, it's definitely assuaged my concerns, thank you. confirming my suspicions that i was doing it wrong and not giving bac a chance to work it's magic by continuing to drink is also just what i needed to hear so thank you again and of course, hearing that bac can't kill me is a bonus!! (i didn't think it would but there was serious worry there for a period).

@stuckinla thanks again for your reply. although you were similar to me, by the fact that you've had issues with breathing without drinking (which is different to me) only goes to show how different the ride is for everyone. your reply also makes me feel positive should i need to go even higher and congrats that (if i'm reading correctly) that it's worked for you and you are now free, respek!!! (as Ali G would say!!) thanks also for your reply.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply to me and I really value your input. i also smoke a lot of weed and have done daily for many many years. i've now started cutting out smoking weed (not skunk, mild thai) during the day and hope to lower my consumption of that also whilst I'm off the sauce so that one day I can actually feel like me again. whether I like "me" I'll have to decide when i meet me again.

**spiritwolf333** · October 22, 2013, 02:26 PM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

Hi C - There is one absolute solid piece of advice that has been given here and it is a FACT. Stop drinking and give baclofen a chance to work. The side effects diminish 10 fold or more. Most all baclofen drug prescription warnings include "do not drink alcohol" while taking baclofen. Bleep told me early on that my side effects would become almost non existent after a period of time. I only believed him enough to give it a real try -And he was absolutely 100% correct regarding me.

**spiritwolf333** · October 22, 2013, 03:30 PM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

Hi C -you know, on second thought, perhaps baclofen is just not for you. After re-reading your post and the fact that you are still drinking 18 units of firewater. For me, that would require hospitalization and a lobotomy. I hope that others reading this post don't get the impression this level of booze and any drug is ok to take in combination.

**bleep** · October 23, 2013, 12:43 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

I would very strongly disagree spirit. What is baclofen for if not this?

What hospitalizes some people only tickles others.

**StuckinLA** · October 23, 2013, 02:46 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

I know the consensus among the most recent round of baclofenists seems to be a combination of willpower/abstinence and bac - hence the "stop drinking and give it a chance to work," as well as the abstinence challenge thread and such.

But I second bleep's post above. I drank a ton while on bac. It's not pleasant, and it seems (for me) to make everything worse, but I didn't feel it was any more dangerous than my usual drinking.

**Ne/Neva Eva** · October 23, 2013, 09:56 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

bleep;1572385 wrote:
What hospitalizes some people only tickles others.
That made me laugh. But it's not really funny, because it is actually true and very relevant. Something to keep in mind when one starts comparing numbers and experiences.

StuckinLA;1572397 wrote: I know the consensus among the most recent round of baclofenists seems to be a combination of willpower/abstinence and bac - hence the "stop drinking and give it a chance to work," as well as the abstinence challenge thread and such.

But I second bleep's post above. I drank a ton while on bac. It's not pleasant, and it seems (for me) to make everything worse, but I didn't feel it was any more dangerous than my usual drinking.

I drank a ton, too. And took an awful lot of bac. But it was awful. Edit: Pretty sure that everyone who had any clue would have confirmed that I was a full blown drunk with lots of baggage. Units confuse me, and are mostly irrelevant. Right? Though when I do compare, all I can think is OUCH.

EDIT: troll gone, comment not relevant.

**spiritwolf333** · October 23, 2013, 09:49 PM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

bleep;1572385 wrote: I would very strongly disagree spirit. What is baclofen for if not this?

What hospitalizes some people only tickles others.

Hi Bleep -thanks for the input. I guess I just don't understand how baclofen could work (or any other drug for that matter) could work with an alcohol intake of 18 units per evening. Physically, it takes the average healthy adult human about an hour to metabolize 90% of one unit of alcohol. At 18 units of intake per day, the average human never is free of alcohol being in his/her system. I am not sure about the mental effect of said intake. It was my experience at that level (all day/night drinking that my cognitive function was zero minus.

However, you are right; alcohol affects us all differently and perhaps I was too pointed in my comment.

**chelsea98** · October 24, 2013, 04:56 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

@spiritwolf "For me, that would require hospitalization and a lobotomy" I actually found that quite funny, but it's definitely "each to their own".

@palladium , many thanks for your input, i appreciate it. i don't go in for AA meetings, been to a few before and they're not my cup of tea.

so as I only drink in the evenings, I've done three days straight so far and am going to keep on going and going. The side effects have reduced considerably. I'm not getting shallow breathing to the degree I was before, my itching has reduced, my sleep is a bit better and although beer is on my mind, it's not in the same way and I can already tell that my cravings are less. I also have the added inspiration of getting dry because my son is away in south africa for two months and I want to do it for him, my other kids and for me by the time he gets back. I've also had a very stressful couple of days in my relationship which would, in the past, have me caning it on the beer but I've distanced myself a bit and managed to get through it with just 3 or 4 of mild spliffs (i should point out that in the UK, as it's so costly, we don't smoke neat spliffs. we have a small line of weed in a rizla and fill with tobacco). In the past I'd think "fuck her!!!" and get straight on the sauce more out of revenge than anything else so I'm pleased that I haven't done that this time.

Again, i really appreciate your input and it's helping to spur me on so thank you all!!

**chelsea98** · October 24, 2013, 08:44 AM

a little bit of help and guidance please.

hi palladium,

thanks for your reply. i think you've hit the nail on the head that i was drinking out of habit rather than compulsion or serious craving. i'd take the same route home and stop off at the off license, have a quick beer in the park before heading home. since i've stopped (and i know it's only 3 days) i'm sailing past the off license without a thought really, so it's all about breaking those habits as well, more than anything else. it's just that it's almost impossible to ride home on my bike and not pass 15-20 off licenses which is the biggest pain in the arse.

i'm hoping to rein in the weed as well at some point (i read a thread on here about a guy who used bac to get off the weed) and i don't want to use it as a crutch now that i'm stopping drinking. it shouldn't be too hard really, i was away in ireland recently and didnt have anything to smoke for 4-5 days so i can do it, it's just at the moment i suppose its a bit of a parachute for me, but i do want to get rid of that as well, it seems that i havent been truly sober for over 20 years due to one substance or another. thanks again

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