Baclofen and anxiety

[And]

Baclofen and anxiety

Hello Everyone,

Allow me to introduce myself: I'm a 35 yo. senior manager from Poland (non-native speaker, hope you don't mind), discovered the Bac option just a couple of weeks ago, trying to read as much as possible, unfortunately the more you know, the more questions you have. I'd be very grateful for any replies from the more experienced to confirm or reject my assumptions so far. I know it's written there somewhere, but you'd really help me move forward, before I have the luck to get to it:

1. I would never suspect myself of anxiety, especially since in Polish it's a synonym of fear, and I don't feel I have a problem facing any challenges, whether professional, or a fist fight for example, if the situation demands it. But I have a "be prepared for the worst" strategy, and in turn I find myself analyzing and re-analyzing tons of negative scenarios, like what if I had cancer and 3 months of life left (just an example, it's mostly about smaller things). It could be why I'm unhappy in general. But I don't feel weak, vulnerable, helpless, etc., I don't feel I have a problem called depression. Is this, or could this be the GAD?

2. Lately the typical dose of 200 ml of vodka to switch me off and allow me to go to sleep on weekdays seems to be diminishing in effect. I drink more on weekends, if I can allow it (I have my reasons and never DWI, no exceptions). So lately I usually drink it at let's say 2:30 AM, being very tired and vodka work better in conjunction. Of course I'm happy if I can drink earlier or more, but am still able to ensure I'll be sober when I have to drive the next morning. I have the impression @Terryk described it ("10 years ago" paragraph from the very moving 2 years of sobriety post), but then lost control. Could anyone experienced with Bac (hopefully @Terryk himself too) comment on having a similar drinking pattern?

3. I never, or almost never drink till I drop, it comes rather naturally that I maintain some satisfying level of alcohol in blood (probably too scared of a blackout), while I still remain responsible and communicative. I'm rarely aggressive after alcohol, rather the first to say: let's leave that until we are sober. Instead, I have maybe not spasms, but something like a need to stretch different muscles when sober during the day. Rather a matter of head than, i.e. lack of electrolytes. Could those issues be an indication that the alcohol problem is anxiety based?

I've attended some group therapy, didn't really help, since I can't honestly admit I'm powerless, have significant material losses or that I'm escaping from life problems, therefore the AA with their higher power and prayers wouldn't work for me for sure. I want to determine or confirm if my case is "right" for Bac, and whether there's any point to try low dose first to see if things improve on their own, before moving to the hundreds mg schedule. Of course I don't know of any aware doctors nearby, so I'd be very grateful for any replies and advice.

[Calikime]

Baclofen and anxiety

AND, welcome to the group! I hope you get some responses to your questions from some of the people on this forum who have been here awhile. I am very new here myself and just started on Baclofen. I would think that trying Baclofen whether you actually have GAD or not would be a good idea. I am sure there are many on this forum that don't have an anxiety disorder underlying their drinking problem, but it's amazing how many do. Dr. Ameisen himself having an anxiety disorder. Not sure if you have read his book or not but it is a great read. I think GAD takes on many forms, but your statement about analyzing and reanalyzing things and using Vodka to "switch you off" sounds to me like you could be suffering from Generalized Anxiety Disorder. If you read the longer thread posted here with the same title "Baclofen and Anxiety", which originally posted long before this one, you will see that Baclofen helped many with both their desire to drink and their anxiety, but for some it didn't help with the anxiety and they take other meds for that part. I am too early into my Baclofen journey to know how I am going to respond to it, but hoping that it will help with both. My GAD manifests itself as more of an ongoing tightness in my stomach which never abates unless I drink wine in the evenings or use Clonazapam. I was on Buspirone for many years and it took care of the tightness in my stomach and helped with my anxiety, but it stopped working a year ago shortly after a very stressful event. I decided to wait and see how I do on baclofen first and if it doesn't help with the anxiety part I will go back on it and see if it helps once again. I have to say though that when I was on Buspirone that I still drank. I am sure since I am 52 years old that the drinking had become an addiction by that time (being diagnosed with GAD about 10 years ago), so even though I wasn't experiencing the ongoing symptoms of GAD I was still drinking at night. My biggest motivator for trying Baclofen is to reach the point of being "indifferent" to alcohol so that I can have the strength to stop. Anyway I hope that helps. I hope others will chime in on your questions too.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen and anxiety

Hi, And, welcome. I had no idea that I had "anxiety" until it was gone. What you describe (about the analyzing and reanalyzing negative scenarios) was exactly my experience. And like you, it was not always about life or death. Some of my anxiety was based on rational situations, and some wasn't. Some of it was completely mundane, but I thought about it over and over again. For example, I was very scared and worried that my dogs would be attacked by a dog while we were walking. The fear didn't make much sense, because my dogs are big dogs, and I lived in a nice neighborhood where dogs didn't run loose. But I made plans about what to do if that ever happened. I thought about it a lot.

I also understand your reluctance to diagnose yourself with something that indicates weakness. I don't consider myself weak. (Just the opposite!) But the anxiety I felt (different from stress) was underlying everything.

I vaguely remember drinking like you describe, but that was a long time ago. By the time I got to baclofen, I was drinking to black out every night. I didn't have any DUIs, or any other major life problems. Except that I was completely miserable.

[kronkcarr]

Baclofen and anxiety

Hi, And,

You ask some good questions. I've posted many times that I never knew I was anxious until I took baclofen and felt its calming effects. I thought I was just always moving full speed ahead.

I did mostly drink alone at night "to sleep" but I also over drank in other situations. I always went to work and did what needed doing. I started bac because I thought my drinking had ruined another relationship. Little did I imagine the positive changes that would come.

As you titrate up you'll be able to see if low dose works for you. It did for me. Because my dr wouldn't allow me to increase my dosage or go beyond 80 mgs I was still at 80 mgs in my third month and that turned out to be my switch. I'm maintaining at 40 mgs. 40's a little low for me--sometimes I think I could go off drinking if I don't see that it would be out of habit. I don't crave or obsess over alcohol like before. I'm at 40 because of the muscle fatigue I feel at 50 and 60.

I hope this helps.

[And]

Baclofen and anxiety

Thank you very much, all 3 replies were helpful. Many years ago my gf back then told me I'm a kind of person, that really can't stand himself and that I'm having problems tolerating myself while alone in four walls. Sounds odd, but there was something to it, so I remember. If it's true somehow, it wasn't too much of a problem when I led a very active and sporty life, leaving at 8 AM, getting back home 11 PM and having two big strong beers to quiet down and go to sleep. Back then it seemed a perfectly acceptable work hard play hard attitude, things changed when the energy level dropped - for some weekends (not that many) staying home and not getting sober since Friday to Monday morning seemed just the best option at the time.

For now it seems I never had or lost the ability to relax. I can abstain quite easily on the condition I'll find myself some physical or intellectual work, but the idea of just lying down, feeling good and slowing down till sleep, without alco, seems a mission impossible. It seems like an induced kind of thing, but I think anxiety has been there before and I hope, that the case is that I share the same biochemical deficit for which the Bac helps. Btw., just checked, prescribed, it costs about 3 US cents for a 10 mg tablet in Poland. Thanks again and looking forward to any new comments.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and anxiety

Reggie;1579386 wrote: A multi Lo0p post wonderful to behold ..I have a simple quewstion ( alma fudd0 ) HOW DO certian individual types become anxious and have a daily life filled with dread... why? do some of us wake up thinking doom empending dont open my eyes im gonna die ..... is it genetic thing or due to some early trauma as a child ..cassander any ideas.

Sorry having a moment always anxious..... I worry constantly about shit that will never happen

Hi Reg -- just saw your question tonight. Its a good one...is anxiety inherited/genetic? or is it environmental -- the product of our life style and life circumstances? I'll have to think about this one some more before attempting a comprehensive reply...it does seem the case that many of us report chronic anxiety from childhood...it does seem that whichever it is, genetics or environment, it manifests in a brain chemistry imbalance which alcohol addresses but exacerbates but which other compounds...ssris, benzos, and baclofen may alleviate, to one extent or another...its a very good question, Reg... Cass

[And]

Baclofen and anxiety

Cass, Reg, I got my first trait of anxiety in the Lesch typology, I assume you know it.

one of my favorite reads on anxiety, section 'Causes' in good old:

Anxiety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still, nothing you wouldn't know. But, trying to answer the question of: where did my anxiety and anxiety coping skills come from, I came up with a surprising answer: I got an all-inclusive package. Let me elaborate: both of my parents show symptoms of anxiety, both of them like a drink as a stress reliever, although drink less and less frequently than me. I assume for now that my anxiety could be a combination of: genes, what I observed and learned subconsciously as a child, and the wisdom of life I carried out from home (be prepared for the worst, people will try to take advantage of you, have savings, etc.).

I don't know if my judgment is correct, but an interesting question for the scientists: if both parents have anxiety "tendencies", is the child doomed (destined) to anxiety as well?

[skullbabyland]

Baclofen and anxiety

Calikime;1579642 wrote: Alky, yes it is every five days.

After reading the thread Cassander re booted on this same subject of anxiety and baclofen (thanks Cassander again for doing that!), and some of the comments posted here, I am wondering how those of you who did not get anxiety relief from Bac treat your anxiety symptoms? It seems like if you are able to get the "indifference" to alcohol with Bac but nothing for your anxiety, that the persisting anxiety might still push you in the direction of alcohol for the relief of stress. I am just wondering what your experiences are in that regard if you don't mind sharing. Obviously I don't know yet how I will respond to Bac one way or the other yet since I just started recently but would like to be as prepared as possible if the anxiety component does not resolve by hearing other's experiences. I currently take Clonazapam but I only take it a few times a week because i will get tolerance to it and need a higher dose, so I live with the symptoms in between.

Cali- I can chime in as I have some experience with this... Baclofen did help me to be less anxious, day to day. Significantly so. I also take an antidepressant, Effexor, that for me is an effective anti-anxiety as well as antidepressant. In fact, I credit it with saving my life. ADs are not for everyone and opinions are mixed but for me it is a game changer. Between both baclofen and effexor, I am VERY significantly better able to handle things in life. I still get raw, stressed, anxious from time to time, but I am not the super stressed out, worrisome people pleaser I once was.

The other thing that is important to consider is how to lower stress factors in your life. Whether it's managing/changing situations at a job, relationship, whatever- it's important to try to figure out how to achieve more harmoniouis surroundings, whatever they may be.

Then, things like meditation, yoga, good nutrition... all really do help significantly. If you do even a few or some of these things you should notice a difference.

Believe me, with a few of the right tools, whether medications or actions, or both, confidence can be cultivated, learned, achieved, and practiced. In hindsight, I consider it absolutely crucial to becoming a whole, healthy human being.

Best of luck
Skull

[skullbabyland]

Baclofen and anxiety

And-

You bring up good points and I hope you're getting some good answers. I think you bring up an interesting point that is worthy of more thought- particularly the stigma around anxiety- you mention in Poland it's synonymous with "fear".

To me, though anxiety and fear do have corellation, I think of anxiety more as a fight-or-flight response that we all possess in some way. In the ancient days it developed to protect us. We still have it running in our brains now, even in non-life threatening situations, so we have to adjust. It's important to understand both anxiety and fear are not things to be ashamed of in ourselves-- they are evolutionarily important traits that we all possess for our own survival.

The trick comes when we need to adjust to them in modern life, which is well worth learning to do, of course, and I'm glad you're doing so.

Sorry if this post comes off as rambly or unfocused- it just struck me that I think it's important to be accepting of all the traits in ourselves-- both the good ones we're proud of, and the ones we need to work with because they're challenging to our lives and goals.

Best of luck
Skull

[And]

Baclofen and anxiety

Skull,

On that note, there was a sentence in Dr. Ameisen's book that literally struck me as either genius or outrageous. In his opinion the reason for which Jews are or are seen successful professionally / economically is because they have a higher anxiety level as a specifically experienced ethnic group. This leads them to better securing their interests. Of course I'm reluctant to bring any ethnic issues to discussion, but such hypothesis could be extended to the anxious in general.

[skullbabyland]

Baclofen and anxiety

And-
Well, I don't remember reading that in particular, but that's a whole other topic and one that I don't have any knowledge of.

But, best of luck in dealing with your challenges, there are many options for tools and treatment. Keep reading and let us know how you progress.