May be close to the switch

[Alky]

May be close to the switch

Yes!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

May be close to the switch

Neti-pot. Hot shower. Benadryl or the like.

[Alky]

May be close to the switch

Made some serious waves at the doctor's office this morning. We were trying to get to the bottom of my high cholesterol issue when she asked if I was taking any other medications, so I came clean about the baclofen and why I use it. She knew absolutely nothing about bac's use in addiction treatment, but to her credit seemed genuinely interested. But, as she is a resident, she really has no authority of her own and went to "consult" with the attending physician. The attending came into my exam room, pissed as hell, and the exchange went something like this:

Do you have a prescription for baclofen?

No.

It's very dangerous to be taking prescription drugs without the supervision of a physician and it's my medical opinion that you stop.

(I'm still calm), 1. Is it any more dangerous than drinking myself to death? Or the falls and accidents that were getting worse and worse? I did end up in the ER this past summer not once, but twice, after all. And 2. I'm not taking random doses of the drug, I have a dosing schedule that was given to me by a Chicago psychiatrist who was treating alcoholics with baclofen. So no, now that the hell of chronic drinking is behind me, I am not going to stop.

(Attending is getting huffy) There are other drugs such as acamprosate and disulfiram that can serve the same purpose, along with counseling. No one here will ever write you a prescription for baclofen for this purpose.

(I'm starting to get a little bugged) Well thank God I don't need anyone here to write me prescription for baclofen for this purpose. And let me add my psychiatrist wanted to treat my alcoholism with a benzodiazepine. You and I both know that's a bad idea, even it has been an "accepted" treatment and it's too bad that your medical dogma prevents you from exploring baclofen as a treatment option when it's clearly working in my case and would be the less harmful option, given a choice between baclofen and a benzo.

Attending physician leaves, slamming the door behind him.

The resident looks around nervously and says, "uhhh…let me go get your flu shot…"

And that was that.

[Cassander]

May be close to the switch

Alky;1595496 wrote: Made some serious waves at the doctor's office this morning. We were trying to get to the bottom of my high cholesterol issue when she asked if I was taking any other medications, so I came clean about the baclofen and why I use it. She knew absolutely nothing about bac's use in addiction treatment, but to her credit seemed genuinely interested. But, as she is a resident, she really has no authority of her own and went to "consult" with the attending physician. The attending came into my exam room, pissed as hell, and the exchange went something like this:

Do you have a prescription for baclofen?

No.

It's very dangerous to be taking prescription drugs without the supervision of a physician and it's my medical opinion that you stop.

(I'm still calm), 1. Is it any more dangerous than drinking myself to death? Or the falls and accidents that were getting worse and worse? I did end up in the ER this past summer not once, but twice, after all. And 2. I'm not taking random doses of the drug, I have a dosing schedule that was given to me by a Chicago psychiatrist who was treating alcoholics with baclofen. So no, now that the hell of chronic drinking is behind me, I am not going to stop.

(Attending is getting huffy) No one here will ever write you a prescription for baclofen for this purpose.

(I'm starting to get a little bugged) Well thank God I don't need anyone here to write me prescription for baclofen for this purpose. And let me add my psychiatrist wanted to treat my alcoholism with a benzodiazepine. You and I both know that's a bad idea, even it has been an "accepted" treatment and it's too bad that your medical dogma prevents you from exploring baclofen as a treatment option when it's clearly working in my case and would be the less harmful option, given a choice between baclofen and a benzo.

Attending physician leaves, slamming the door behind him.

Well done, Alky. I am going to add your narrative to my "Where are the doctors thread", unless you object. Best wishes, Cass

[Alky]

May be close to the switch

No objections whatsoever!

[Alky]

May be close to the switch

In all the BS surrounding my doctor's visit last Friday, I forgot to ask a few questions. Turns out I am anemic, have high cholesterol and a vitamin D deficiency. I told the resident that I saw about my drinking history, but she seemed to be largely unconcerned since my liver enzymes were normal, which is amazing, after 23 years of binge drinking, the past 7 alcoholically. Anyway, have any of you been diagnosed with such conditions? And if so, did they disappear the longer you stayed abstinent? The vitamin D deficiency is particularly troubling, because I spend A LOT of time outside. The high cholesterol less so because my triglycerides were low. And the doctor was inclined to blame the anemia more on my vegetarian diet over alcohol. But, since alcohol inhibits the absorption of nutrients, I can't help but to wonder if it's partially to blame for these conditions.

[Rusty]

May be close to the switch

Alky,

When I first saw my new doctor back in January, 2008, I was so nervous about seeing her, I had downed a fifth of scotch the day before my blood tests. Of course, my liver enzymes were elevated. but when I went to see her six months later, I abstained from booze for a week and my Liver Function Test was normal. My blood tests showed that I was Vitamin D, E, C, B, and folic acid deficient due to drinking. My doctor put me on OTC supplements of all the vitamins and I was found to be ok a few months later, at a follow-up blood test. Spending a lot of time outside is not a panacea for solving the Vitamin D deficiency. My doctor told me this was one of the few vitamins that ALL of us (AL addicted or not) need to take ALL THE TIME. Hope this helps.

[neophyte]

May be close to the switch

Rusty thats true about vit d, I'm a bit of a supplement nerd. Its the single most important vitamin to supplement with, even if you have a good diet and get your sun.

If anyone is interested, you can get a cheap supply from iherb.com, i take 5000iu once daily, a years supply is less than $20.

I also supplement with life force multi, but only 1/4 of the dose, so 1 tablet out of the 4. Finally i use Creatine, 5g a day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

May be close to the switch

Alky;1596821 wrote: Turns out I am anemic, have high cholesterol and a vitamin D deficiency.
...Anyway, have any of you been diagnosed with such conditions? And if so, did they disappear the longer you stayed abstinent?

Yes to all three. My cholesterol dropped significantly when I started eating meat again. There's a lot of (legitimate) info on that on the interwebs. You just have to ignore the pseudoscience that tells us that meat is bad. (It's debatable, and sucks for the environment, and is morally repugnant. But my cholesterol dropped. just sayin') Anemia for me is based on my menstrual cycle and diet. I rarely supplement unless those two factors are in play at the same time.

Vitamin D deficiency is possibly reaching epidemic proportions. I posted this some time ago, and it's a great article.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f6...ion-51212.html

I am absolutely not into taking supplements and vitamins and pills and stuff. (HA! The irony.) I MUCH prefer the safety accorded us by the FDA. (Such as it is.) There's a very recent article about the fact that many supplements are not legit. (I don't really have time to google, atm, and I didn't save it. You can look it up. It's science-y.) And there's a really thorough research paper I posted on the holistic threads some time ago that pissed everyone off, but is worth reading if you're interested in that stuff. Basically it showed that people who took a bunch of supplements (particularly certain kinds) died younger. This was discredited by people who think that the world is out to get us, but was done by legitimate researchers and based on sound science. The one exception? Vitamin D. (Edit: There may have been other exceptions, too. I can't remember. I do remember that iron supplementation, which I was doing, was correlated with younger death. AND [this is very important] the researchers had no explanation for what they found. They did factor in as many factors as they could think of in order to try to explain the results. Still didn't come up with anything other than the vitamins, but it definitely was not conclusive.)

Cheers!

Edit: I have no opinion on supplements or vitamins other than for myself and my family. I got tired of reading conflicting information, completely overwhelmed, and just decided to eat some damn food. That in itself is a daily challenge, even now. Food is not my favorite thing to do.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

May be close to the switch

I edited the post. The whole supplement thing is not my forte, and I wasn't trying to pretend it is. And the usual caveat: Not a doctor, just a formerly drunk chick trying to figure it all out too.

[redhead77]

May be close to the switch

Ne/Neva Eva;1597009 wrote: Yes to all three. My cholesterol dropped significantly when I started eating meat again. There's a lot of (legitimate) info on that on the interwebs. You just have to ignore the pseudoscience that tells us that meat is bad. (It's debatable, and sucks for the environment, and is morally repugnant. But my cholesterol dropped. just sayin') Anemia for me is based on my menstrual cycle and diet. I rarely supplement unless those two factors are in play at the same time.

Vitamin D deficiency is possibly reaching epidemic proportions. I posted this some time ago, and it's a great article.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f6...ion-51212.html

I am absolutely not into taking supplements and vitamins and pills and stuff. (HA! The irony.) I MUCH prefer the safety accorded us by the FDA. (Such as it is.) There's a very recent article about the fact that many supplements are not legit. (I don't really have time to google, atm, and I didn't save it. You can look it up. It's science-y.) And there's a really thorough research paper I posted on the holistic threads some time ago that pissed everyone off, but is worth reading if you're interested in that stuff. Basically it showed that people who took a bunch of supplements (particularly certain kinds) died younger. This was discredited by people who think that the world is out to get us, but was done by legitimate researchers and based on sound science. The one exception? Vitamin D. (Edit: There may have been other exceptions, too. I can't remember. I do remember that iron supplementation, which I was doing, was correlated with younger death. AND [this is very important] the researchers had no explanation for what they found. They did factor in as many factors as they could think of in order to try to explain the results. Still didn't come up with anything other than the vitamins, but it definitely was not conclusive.)

Cheers!

Edit: I have no opinion on supplements or vitamins other than for myself and my family. I got tired of reading conflicting information, completely overwhelmed, and just decided to eat some damn food. That in itself is a daily challenge, even now. Food is not my favorite thing to do.

I'm glad you added that last part in an edit, Ne. Did the research paper you posted study people who abuse alcohol? Alcoholics are very likely to be vitamin deficient. The standard where I work of anyone who is admitted to the hospital, who states that they are abusing alcohol, is to place them on the CIWA protocol. Along with it to start them on a multiple vitamin, B1, and folic acid. Those are just the vitamins that we know could be deficient. This is done by Western medicine doctors, who likely believe that supplements only make normal peoples' urine more expensive! It's a good idea to supplement with vitamins even when you're abusing alcohol, but from a reliable source. Do your research to figure out what's reliable. *Certainly supplementing with iron when not necessary has been implicated in increased death from certain diseases.*

There's also the issue of just getting your vitamins from food when you abuse alcohol. Many alcoholics don't eat enough, but there may also be damage to the gut lining, as well as to the pancreas that produces digestive enzymes. Add with it that the process of detoxing alcohol use more vitamins that is usually required by the body not trying to detox.

Many of the people who are reading these threads are still abusing alcohol, and their cells are continually trying to detox.

As far as Joan Larson, and that being "snake oil" and all the other stuff I've read you write about supplements over the last couple months, that again is hard to measure. You'd have to travel to Minnesota, and then follow patients over a period of time, and then figure out if they were adhering to both the supps AND the diet.

Vitamin D deficiency is very common, indeed. My 11 year old son was deficient (ADHD), and I was just over the line of deficiency. Certainly not an ideal number. Many physicians are starting to check a 25(OH)D level on their patients who suffer from depression. The number is often low.

Alky, sorry for the hijack! Ne, I'm glad you keep posting for all the people who need you! I know you have your opinions, but I certainly have mine.

EDIT: Not that you hear them much.

[Alky]

May be close to the switch

Thank you Red, NE, Neo and Rusty for your feedback. I'm scheduled for a follow-up next month and I think I will request to see a different resident (I go to a family practice clinic at a teaching hospital). I am a fairly fit, active person, and what she said to me regarding the vitamin D deficiency made me feel like a slothful couch potato who never gets outside. As far as the cholesterol goes, I went vegetarian two years and one month ago after attending a health fair at work. My combined cholesterol at that time was 278. It did go down to 240 without eggs and meat, but it should have gone down a lot more than that. Since it did go down some, though, I'm not sure if resuming meat consumption is the answer. I do have a month's supply of simvastatin (zocor) to see if that will have any effect. Otherwise, the only supplement I've been taking regularly is a B-complex.

[skullbabyland]

May be close to the switch

I can't speak to the others, but I agree with what Neo's said on Vit D supplementation. From all I've read, it's a really important one, and some sources say that we should be supplementing significantly higher than we previously thought. Here's a video link I found helpful-

Why We Need Vitamin D with the Bulletproof Executive | WellnessFX

I personally take 2000iu/day. I believe I've read that searching for a Vit D count of 50-100 in your blood test is good- with 60-80 being optimal (but double check in case I'm wrong about those numbers). I'll follow up on this.

On my next blood test I'm going to see where my number falls- I suspect I'll want to bump up to 5000iu/day for a while to get my VitD up to 80-ish.

All that being said, I know supplementation can be quite a rabbit hole, and I don't blame anyone who doesn't care for it. I get most of my vitamins from whole healthy foods, but I supplement with Vit D, B-complex, and C. I also take a cal/mag/zinc supplement.

Anyway hopefully that is helpful and not a bunch of useless babble As far as alcohol, I think it's a pretty good bet for most of us when drinking in our alcoholic way that it's gotta be the main culprit for most of our health imbalances, even inhibiting vitamin absorbtion, etc. I believe most things in our bodies balance out nicely with some sober or at least sober-ish time.

[MissIndygo]

May be close to the switch

I've been taking B-Vits for years. Thinking I was doing the right thing.
Since then I've learned that:

Imho what drunks need most is: Thiamine hydrochlorice 100mg (Vitamin B1).
In a regular or even a superior B Vitamin supplement you will never find 100mg of Thiamine.
However, it is easy to get if you just ask your chemist for it!

[redhead77]

May be close to the switch

MissIndygo;1597163 wrote: I've been taking B-Vits for years. Thinking I was doing the right thing.
Since then I've learned that:

Imho what drunks need most is: Thiamine hydrochlorice 100mg (Vitamin B1).
In a regular or even a superior B Vitamin supplement you will never find 100mg of Thiamine.
However, it is easy to get if you just ask your chemist for it!

B1 could be the difference between alcoholic brain damage and not. We give B complex (with vit C) on top of thiamine to our peeps in alcohol withdrawal too. The B's do help with withdrawal, but they also help when one is actively drinking.

EDIT: Unless they're too sick to swallow anything. Then we mix it up in an IV for them. We call these banana bags, because they're yellow from all the B vitamins, lol.