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    do people actually read anymore?

    Let me start this by saying this is not so much a thread to start a flame war, but a call to action.

    There is another thread on here arguing about a subject where sweeping conclusions have been drawn from heresay and google searches. It's gotten pretty argumentative, and bringing it up here would miss the bigger point, which is this:

    GOOGLE SEARCHES AND INTUITION DO NOT CUT IT FOR RESEARCH!!!!!!

    Google anything and you will likely land on a page written by a paid content writer with no direct expertise. This person is being paid to fill up a website with information to generate revenue by landing on google searches. They usually get this information from an un-cited single source- or other google searches. This becomes painfully obvious when you research a specific subject and realize that the information you're coming across is repetitive right down to the same wording.

    For example, last year I was interested in pulling in some extra income. So I googled "how to make extra money". Not only did I get the same type of top-10 list format on almost all of my searches, but their content and the total lack of experience behind them were identical. It boiled down to:

    -Start a blog! (no one is going to read your blog unless you have actual expertise and an established name- this ain't 2005!)

    -Do Freelance work on the side! (I got accounts on freelancer.com and flex jobs.com. The sites were not only spam traps for my email address, but the jobs they offered fell into two categories. The jobs were either so specific that only someone with a narrow range of experience could do them, or so general that hundreds of foreign outsourcers would bid them down to where you could not compete. Total waste of time.)

    -Start a photography business! (I know a couple of photographers. There is a big upfront investment in equipment, software, etc before you even make a name for yourself to pay it back.)

    -Get a paper route! (This was probably the least crazy option they offered because you actually see these advertised all the time. The catch is you have to BUY the papers and re-sell them to the subscribers, effectively absorbing their risk for them.)

    The common thread in all of these is the total disregard for actual research or experience before typing it up and publishing it. This is lazy. This is intellectually corrupt. This is going on way too much.

    One of the major advances of civilization came in the enlightenment with the idea that you base conclusions only on the evidence at hand- not who said it, not how popular the idea is and not who it's going to piss off. That idea is dying- not because people are actively rejecting it but because it is seen as inconvenient chore.

    The solution? Unplug google and read a book! You will get so much more out of it, namely:

    -The author is establishing their credibility. Their future and reputation rely on getting it right. They are not fly-by-night content writers.

    -Books are peer reviewed. No publisher is going to risk their time and money on something shoddily thrown together.

    -Because of their length, a great deal of research on specific subjects is needed to avoid being transparently repetitive. Steven Pinker's book "The Blank Slate" drew some very controversial conclusions about human nature. Fortunately, he came to the fight armed. Of the book's 600 pages, the last 100 are citations of his sources. Because of his research, we are effectively getting the input of hundreds of specific viewpoints on one subject.

    -Books have the ability to change your mind. When you search for an article on google, you are likely searching for a predetermined conclusion rather than content. Books have many more opportunities to disprove themselves and have to be careful, specific and judicious in how they present information. This means that it is much harder to prod them into convenient conclusions. Example: I once did a term paper on the city of Brasilia. I found the concept of a pre-engineered city completely fascinating and wanted to write my paper extolling the virtues of this idea. My conclusion could not have been any more opposite. The process of funneling the design of a city into so few hands led to such a disregard to human needs that no one wanted to live in it. I feel lucky to have run from an idea with my tail between my legs- there are people out there with PhDs who have never had that experience!


    This last point is the most important. When people like an idea too much to actually challenge it with actual research and original sources, the ideas can take on a life of their own. Thanks to this, we get garbage like:

    - America is a Christian nation founded on Biblical principles
    - Rape is a crime of power that has nothing to do with sex
    - Alcoholism is a spiritual problem that requires participation in a 12 step program


    Mind you- these were ideas that took root long before google. I cannot imagine how much worse things are about to get if things don't change. And I hope that third point hit you close to home as to how nefarious this sense of intellectual laziness really is. How much do we continue to suffer because people like feelings and conjecture more than evidence?

    Be the change. Hold yourself to higher standards. Come to your arguments armed. This is especially important for us as we are fighting an uphill battle for baclofen to be accepted.

    That is all.

    #2
    do people actually read anymore?

    I also agree totally..
    I don't know anything about Bac.. and not going down that route but the points you make are so valid and thanks.. I will unplug google and read real peer reviewed books. I do anyway but will up it.
    Thanks Fred

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      #3
      do people actually read anymore?

      I'm not going to name the thread as it was getting really ugly. I was about to clean house and realized there was a much more pervasive issue going on, so I saw this as the more constructive thing to do.

      Comment


        #4
        do people actually read anymore?

        Good points Fred, I've often thought that internet research is dangerous, anything is out there with no validation whatsoever.
        Liberated 5/11/2013

        Comment


          #5
          do people actually read anymore?

          Wikipedia and PubMed are exceptions that prove the rule. I was very pleasantly surprised to discover that the overwhelming majority of wikipedia articles are very close to the truth.

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            #6
            do people actually read anymore?

            As an academic, I've got to disagree with Fred on several points.

            Books:
            First of all, there are plenty of books out there that are garbage as well. If you have a manuscript, you can find a publisher that will publish the most outlandish, fringe material. These are the publishers that out-of-the-mainstream (and not in a good way) or mediocre academics/researchers go to when mainstream publishers tell them to take a hike, just so they can say they got something published. You write it, someone will publish it. And in the very unlikely event you can't get something published, SELF-PUBLISH! It's never been easier!

            Second, let's say the information contained in a particular book published by a mainstream publisher is valid. The editing and publication process take a while. That information is at least several years old by the time it reaches your hands. That is why when I require my students to write a research paper, I at least half their sources to be scholarly journal articles or articles from established print news organizations dating from preferably the past 24-36 months.

            Google searches:
            Fred makes a valid point when he says a good deal of the information found on Google is garbage. But I think most users of this forum know how to intelligently sift through that garbage. We all seem like fairly educated people here. Just as an example, I just googled "baclofen alcoholism." Here are the first eight hits, in order:
            1. Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen (a Frontiers in Psychiatry journal article, link provided by the United States National Library of Medicine)
            2. Treating Alcohol Addiction: Can a Pill Replace Abstinence (Time Magazine)
            3. The Little Pill That Could Cure Alcoholism (The Guardian)
            4. Baclofen (Wikipedia)
            5. Baclofen in the Management of Alcohol Dependent Patients (Alcohol journal, link provided by medscape.com)
            6. High Dose Baclofen for Alcohol Treatment (practicalrecovery.com - a rehab center in LaJolla, California with possible ulterior motives)
            7. Clinical Effectiveness of Baclofen for the Treatment of Alcohol Dependence (dovepress.com - dovepress is an online journal dedicated to "open access to scientific and medical research," a possible red flag - check the credentials of the authors - three of the four authors are associated with among the most highly respected institutions in the USA - the Mayo Clinic and the University of Pittsburgh and Duke University Medical Schools - this is credible)
            8. Baclofen4alcoholism

            So 1. you don't need access to academic databases to find credible journal articles (most of the time the abstract suffices anyway) and 2. I hope Fred and all the others who took his rant at face value and wholeheartedly agreed with him are not insinuating that the average user of this forum does not have the ability to arrange these hits into a credible hierarchy because that would be offensive.
            In the middle of my life's journey, I found myself in a dark wood, as I had lost the straight path. It is a difficult thing to speak about, how wild, harsh and impenetrable that wood is. Just thinking about it recreates the fear. It is scarcely less bitter than death, but in order to tell of the good that I found there, I must tell of the other things I saw there. --Dante, paraphrased

            Comment


              #7
              do people actually read anymore?

              Google is a wonderful tool if u know how to use it and understand how to weed through BS. Just like with books, u need to read many points of view on a subject and formulate ur own opinion. I would never google How to Make Extra Money. Hahahah that's just asking for spam. AA and the spiritual remedy to alcoholism has helped a million fold more people than medication. I think we have about 20 years to go in here before we can knock AA with a straight face. Not saying this post did that, but I see it in here a lot. There are like 20 people posting in here saing they are sober, trying to be, or were. At the same time, there's about 10 million people in meetings across the world doing the same thing.
              When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

              Comment


                #8
                do people actually read anymore?

                Alky;1593006 wrote:
                First of all, there are plenty of books out there that are garbage as well. If you have a manuscript, you can find a publisher that will publish the most outlandish, fringe material.
                It's pointless nowadays to send manuscripts in hope someone will appreciate your work. It takes $2-3K for anything to be published in paper, and if you have services like Amazon self-publishing available... I hate to say that, but you can't trust books anymore.

                Google requires skill or intelligence allowing you to run through 20-40 search results to form an initial opinion on any topic. Relying on just one or three would be just foolish. Two days ago I read OA book in one evening, very interesting, but what I read was a biography, something I would call belletristic (do you native speakers use that word?). It was $8 and got delivered to my kindle within 60 seconds, boy I love this toy. Next in line is "Brain in Balance" of Fred von Stieff. Coupled with several hundreds things I read on the internet, I hope to start Bac on Wednesday (I'm seeing a shrink), but with an assumption I'll keep educating myself in the meantime. I'd love to see a topic on books and whatever academic material worth reading, but certainly would not judge stuff as: book - good, google - bad.

                Comment


                  #9
                  do people actually read anymore?

                  I think search engines are one of the greatest inventions of out time. Books can be full of shit as well. Its one persons opinion really. At school you we told this was true and that's that.

                  With the web... search... search and search some more then come to your own conclusion. Every books got there own slant. I personally think a lot have some degree of fiction.

                  Slightly off topic..... Take wars for example. I live in the north of Ireland. Fill a room full of a cross section of the community and 90% of the time it'll kick off.

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                    #10
                    do people actually read anymore?

                    tl;dr

                    Comment


                      #11
                      do people actually read anymore?

                      crawling_key;1597881 wrote: tl;dr
                      :H

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