JMum's Progress Journal

[skullbabyland]

JMum's Progress Journal

JM, and EMC, sounds like you both have found good results with indifference, if you can ignore the second glass or beer. That's as great a test of indifference I can think of, if you can do what most alcoholics cannot- reject finishing the second drink cuz it doesn't seem enjoyable. Great!

[Jazi's Mum]

JMum's Progress Journal

Hi EMC so good of you to post and say hi. Yes, I guess what I continue to experience is indifference. The next step is to 'not pour' and that's where I want to go. I'm wasting a lot of wine!!

I'm very very blessed to be where I am now.
JMum

[spiritwolf333]

JMum's Progress Journal

Great job Jazi. Sure seems great when an alcoholic can not fear alcohol. However, this can also be very dangerous to an alcoholic -at least for me. And really, the most difficult part of not drinking is "not drinking"; its the "what do I do now" now that I am not drinking. Dealing with one's own reality is the most difficult part of not drinking -at least for me. Just a thought.

[StuckinLA]

JMum's Progress Journal

I say go for it. It's weird and even scary sometimes on HDB when you don't feel like drinking - at least for me, since that'd never happened before. But there were times I'd go for a beer and read or grade papers or whatever, and would sit with the SAME beer in front of me for 2 hours. But you know what, it's better than 8 beers in that 2 hours, right?

My vote is to let yourself adjust. And speaking of adjusting, I'm off to therapy...

[Jazi's Mum]

JMum's Progress Journal

Thank you for the good counsel and good thoughts. And I'm off to pour, sip, and then we'll see...

But feeling great! And that's the bac!!!

[Accel7]

JMum's Progress Journal

I'm kind of there, too: not switched, not indifferent, still drinking some nights, but having more and more nights AF (at 200mg of BAC; still not indifferent). When I do drink, I've been taking 50mg of naltrexone beforehand; alas, for me, it has no noticeable effect. Still get a buzz, still want another glass or three. I must have pretty immune opiate receptors! Still, I take heart that I'm now able to string-together two, three, even four AF nights in a row without feeling unduly stressed or tense--so maybe the BAC is working a little. But I'm also at a high level of willpower/motivation to stop drinking, so I also attribute much of my behavior simply to wanting to be a better husband/father (and not wanting to fall asleep on the couch when we have dinner guests over!). Not ready to increase my dose yet, so it may be a while before I switch. But I'm hanging in there ...
Congrats on your success!
Accel7

[Jazi's Mum]

JMum's Progress Journal

It's been ages since I posted here but not because anything in particular has happened. I'm just lazy and couldn't be bothered to sit down and think through what I wanted to say.

Baclofen:

Still on 80mg divided into 4 doses. It's working very well in that I'm relaxed and nicely dopy still. I am indifferent to alcohol but have not been able to stop pouring every night. That is connected to many things and that's where my concentration is going now.

Side effects are fine, although I noticed when i went from 60mg to 80 mg daily my sleep stopped being great and I wake up often in the night, and very early in the morning. This could be because I'm doing a ton of inner work and dredging up some pretty difficult stuff so can't attribute it all to the bac. Just don't know. The relaxation means though that I can stay in bed even though I'm awake - I drift off again, wake again, drift off - so it's not like before when I was so tense - I'd get up in frustration.

My body is getting used to the bac. I remember how totally relaxed I felt with my first 5mgs!! Now at a higher dose this is still good but not the total body experience it was - or maybe I'm just used to how it feels. Again, because I'm doing lots of dredging I could be tensing up in spite of the bac. It feels like that.

One interesting side effect of the bac is total relaxation in situations that would have been filled with anxiety in the past. I had to drive across the border to pick up a naltrexone shipment. This would have had me panicked in the past. The border guards are NOT warm and friendly - either coming or going. And I wasn't really sure where I was going. When I have lots of anxiety my mind shuts down. Anyway this time I got my map out and used map quest to get directions and away I went. I went over in mid-afternoon too which is unheard of!! Usually the traffic is bad then.

Anyway long story short: I breezed through, found where I wanted to go, did not freak out when speaking to the border guards, found another store I had not been to before, and was home again in 2 hours, safe and sound with my naltrexone!! Thank God for bac!!

Naltrexone:

I started several days ago to take naltrexone .50 mgs an hour before I drink. The first dose kicked me in the butt and I felt very sleepy and dizzy. This was interesting but it did not freak me out - I was expecting it, and I knew what it was going to be like - so I just sat through it and it was ok. I think because of the combo of bac and nal, the nal hit me harder. The extra effect from the nal lasted a few hours and gradually faded. My husband did not notice any difference in my behaviour as I was not staggering or falling asleep. It you keep moving around the sleepy, dopy business goes away until you sit down again - weird! These side effects have abated quite a bit now.

Drinking was not appealing to me at all but I poured anyway. My addiction is not dependent on alcohol - bac and nal are doing their jobs thoroughly, but the 'drive' is driven by needs I have not dealt with. My 'numb-er' happens to be alcohol but I have not developed a way to 'not need to be numbed' yet. It's not the substance it's the drive.

So this is where I sit today:

I'm learning as much as I can about addiction. Gabor Mate, Lance Dodes, Gordon Neufeld and Robert Sapolsky (sp?) are helpful in showing me what's been going on in my head and heart.

I can see where my drive comes from. I can relate the past to the present. I have identified exactly what I need to do in order to behave in a way that meets my criteria for normal.

However, the addictive drive is so strong that I have not been able to 'act.'

There are 6 steps of change:

pre-contemplation,
contemplation,
preparation,
action,
maintenance,
termination.

Each step has to be thoroughly completed before the next step is worked through, and a behaviour changes. These ideas come from:

Changing for Good by James O. Prochaska et al. I'm still in the contemplation stage but I'm coming to the point when actually preparing (step 3) has to be faced.

Even as I sit here in my den, typing these words, I'm getting antsy over the change I want to make this evening! I feel fear, anxiety, self-consciousness, tension - all these make up my particular 'drive' to addictive behaviour.

But I have to repeat, it's only because of baclofen, and naltrexone, giving me the space to think that will make changing possible at all.

That's where I am as of today. Excited that change is possible. Excited that I have new tools to help me get where I want to go. I have the realization that just stopping is not effective for me. Each stage has to be worked through before stopping will work.

Other tools that have helped are: my recognition of traits of adult children of dysfunctional families, traits of adults with ADD, the realization that there are steps involved in successful change that must be addressed rather than 'white knuckling one day at a time,' and the support of friends on-line.

This winter has done a number on me - lots of bad roads, freezing temps and wind, not much sunshine - all make changes harder. I'm stuck in this house!!! But the Cardinals are singing again which means in spite of the weather spring is coming!!

JMum

[spiritwolf333]

JMum's Progress Journal

Hi Jazzi- good to see your post (have not read you in a few days)

There is one member on our board that often throws out some of the best -simple-common sense advice that I read on the forum. In fact, it pisses me off sometimes that he dispels such simple truisms.

A few days ago, Bleep made the short post: (Actually, one of his more elaborate posts):

Per Bleep:
Is this maybe a combination of two things? One might be dodgy baclofen. The other, which has happened to me, is expecting baclofen to do all the work, and being surprised and disappointed when it doesn't.


Having been effortlessly indifferent and seeing how easy it was, when I started drinking more than I wanted to again, my first and default reaction was to blame baclofen. Shitty habits and poor choices can overcome even the most positive level of indifference. Note that I'm not saying this happening - it is just something to be aware of. When I've looked back, it has normally been these two factors combined that have led to this sort of thing for me.


What always helped was a short period of forced abstinence. Even a few days lends a mental clarity that helps extraordinarily in getting through this. It's a shit place to be, but I am sure you will get through ok.


BLEEPS Points:
1. Expecting Baclofen to do all of the work
2. Choosing shart like choices can nullify any med -including baclofen
3. FORCED (SELF-IMPOSED) ALCOHOL FREE DAYS -Offers CLARITY
4. Alcoholism is a shit world to live in -regardless: You can escape with some booze free time and baclofen

__________________

[Jazi's Mum]

JMum's Progress Journal

Thanks for your insights (and bleep's!):h Yes, I am getting close to action. Today I've started to list the specific steps needed to take the action. This is the Preparation Step as noted in my post above.

I used to believe that 'just stop for awhile' was the way to go. And I've been able to stop drinking for YEARS that way. But relapse always occurs because I was not prepared properly :upset:

My way may be frustrating for others to observe. But it's the way I've chosen. There are triggers I have to change before I can force AF days. And when I do have AF days they won't be 'forced' they will be the result of this long period of contemplation and preparation - before jumping to the action step.

Once the pros outweigh the cons action is possible and successful. I'm still in the process of convincing myself the cons are livable. What I did not make clear is that there are others in my life who will be impacted by my changes. Some of that will be negative for them. These are the cons. My pros have to outweigh these cons in my own mind before I can take action. My whole past experience of defences against childhood trauma also has to be overcome - what I do now numbs me from emotional pain. That has to be put on the con side, and new activities to alleviate the pain have to be listed - on the pro side. This all takes a lot of introspection and preparation.

Needlessly complicated? Over thinking? Just stop? This process is right for me.

I really do appreciate comments as I go along!! It's very kind of anyone to drop in and give me the benefit of their experiences - that's what this kind of support is all about. I also have many past 'quits' that have not been successful. Trying this new approach seems most helpful to me.

Some thoughts that jumped out at me this morning as I was reading the 6 Steps to Change book:

Self re-evaluation at each step will reveal once and for all that my essential values are in conflict with my addictive behaviours.

I let people's reactions to what I do and say decide my behaviours. I must do something or say something then defend it - instead, now, I listen to others and try to adapt to that.

It's this kind of introspection that is helping me get closer and closer to action that will 'take.'
JMum

[RedThread12]

JMum's Progress Journal

Here's what happened for me, Jazi's Mum - and I hope it helps you unwind a little bit. I, too, kept pouring 1-2 glasses of wine every night. Well, except for the 2 weeks AF I did soon after getting to the place that I could do that. I wanted to attend a week of out-patient at a treatment center whose model is in part developed by specialists in trauma and ptsd, Peter Levine and Bessell vanderKolk. I didn't do that entire 30 days, but I did a couple of weeks, and stayed AF while I was there, no problem at all.

When I came home, I got back into the "1-2 glasses of wine/night" routine. For many months, it was a big joy to know that one bottle of 750ml red wine would last 2 nights. It was also a great joy in that it cut down my recycling efforts by far more than 1/2! Anyway, one night I was upstairs watching TV and thought, "Oh, I haven't had a glass of wine tonight." I went downstairs and opened the refrigerator. Well, I'm a red wine girl, and I certainly do no keep it in the fridge. I reached into the fridge and grabbed a diet Coke. Some time later, back on the couch, I noticed that I had FOROTTEN to pour a glass of wine. Really. Just mindlessly opened the fridge, took the Coke, and didn't even think about the wine again for quite a while. And by then it was time to go to sleep, and another trip downstairs seemed useless.

The time sequence of this was probably 3 weeks of 2 glasses/night; a month or a little longer AF; another 3 weeks of 2 glass/night, then . . . voila! I forgot! That was over 4 years ago. I haven't done long periods of AF for a while, so it's time for that again. But I have not been drunk, nor had a hang over, nor had to drink against my will, since then; and I give thanks for that, every day.

It's fascinating to see how it works - or doesn't - for different people. I am still convinced that the many years I spent as an adult with no intoxicants at all contributed to the ease of my own bac path. And the "personal growth" work I did during those years - and THAT was a lot, including meditation, yoga and a host of non-traditional therapies that are now readily available. You've done really, really well!!!

[Jazi's Mum]

JMum's Progress Journal

Thanks for your insights, Red. It's great to read other's experiences - lots of sharing and support here is wonderful - I'm not able to get support for what I'm doing here at home for a variety of reasons.

Last evening was a revelation for me. I won't go into the details because I think I have before, and there is no way any of us can really explain what is so internal to each of us...

But the usual situation presented itself and I was prepared for it. I decided I was going to do something different and I did. My Sweet Darling was not happy with my choice - he's been very down the past few weeks for his own reasons and it was important to him to do what he always does....anyway I had poured a glass and sipped at it.

We went our separate ways and this usually would have caused me to stop doing what I wanted, and do what he wanted. I stuck to my guns - not in a nasty way, but just calmly and it was fine.

The breakthrough is this: I did top up my glass to 'full.' But at the top of my usual anxiety at how things were going I just looked at the glass and said: I really don't want that.

When I was cleaning up I just dumped it in the sink and continued on. End of story. This is huge for me.

It's the beginning of change in my behaviour. I was able to suffer through the uncomfortable vibe without drinking the rest of the alcohol.

Sweet Darling was still unhappy and he's still down. But I was able to think this through and KNOW that finishing the alcohol was not what I wanted.

Naltrexone and baclofen have given me this head space. Those two tools, as well as the books and videos I've referenced in older posts have filled in the blanks.

JMum

[spiritwolf333]

JMum's Progress Journal

A change in alcoholic behavior and reactions effects more than just ourselves. Too often, when we change (stop drinking), we become much less controllable. Our change in alcoholic behavior is HUGE - a huge change. It not only scares us, it might even frighten those around us who know us. Not that this is your situation, but it is often a reality. In some kind of way, even though we are suffering like hell, we have to remember that others have a difficult time -initially- accepting our new, sober kind of life. It is our responsibility -opinion- to help them accept our new way(s). Sober alcoholics are the best people in the world to associate with -again, opinion only.

[Jazi's Mum]

JMum's Progress Journal

Spirit, you are so right. The last two nights I've changed some habits that I didn't enjoy and others were uncomfortable with that.

But my growth is so important to me that there is no going back.

What's interesting in this exercise is that the first night I did drink some alcohol and poured the rest away. Last night I felt really pumped because of the first night's success - so I poured but the glass just sat there while I ate dinner and I didn't touch it. Just not interested.

My thought process was: I made a change to a behaviour that feels more comfortable to ME even though the others were uncomfortable. I have a glass of alcohol sitting right there so if I need it to cope with this dis-comfort I can have it.

But I realized that I didn't need it. And I didn't want it. So it too got poured down the sink.

My strategy would only work for me in this way: My particular problem is not volume of alcohol, it's the control of my situation - the nightly habits around me. So with baclofen and naltrexone doing their wonders in my brain, I'm able to sit with a glass of alcohol right in front of me and not drink it. Because I felt in control of my own situation - that's what the change was.

This is very important to me because I live in an environment where alcohol is front and centre every day and that will not change. I never want to fear this. I don't want to white-knucke this. I don't want to have to take it one day at a time.

I want each exposure to alcohol to be neutral. I could have it. But I don't need to have it.

For me that's success. No counting days, no fear that I'm not in control - that I must submit and confess that alcohol has power over me. That's just not realistic for me.

The above is what baclofen and naltrexone combined has done for me. But I've also been doing a lot of work, a lot of reading, and a lot of thinking. I've mentioned the books I'm using in posts above so I won't repeat them but I would not have been able to sit and look at that glass of alcohol last night and not touch it, or want to touch it without doing the inner work I've done.

And of course the support of many here has been invaluable. Just being able to post here and say what I feel has been wonderful.
JMum

[Colin]

JMum's Progress Journal

Jazi's Mum;1626073 wrote:
I want each exposure to alcohol to be neutral. I could have it. But I don't need to have it.

For me that's success. No counting days, no fear that I'm not in control - that I must submit and confess that alcohol has power over me. That's just not realistic for me.

Me too. Counting days has too many overtones of the failed AA mumbo-jumbo.

[skullbabyland]

JMum's Progress Journal

Good for you Jmum.... just as important as tools like bac and nal is doing the work we need to do in regards to triggers, pressure, dealing with others, all of that. So important to learn how to live with challenges without relying on alcohol... you're doing great work, well done