Increased or even lost switch dose

[Fred_The_Cat]

Increased or even lost switch dose

I thought I had lost my switch last week- but it turns out all I had to do was hang tight and stay away from booze for a few days. I think once the switch occurs the real struggle is a mental one.

[spiritwolf333]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Fred_The_Cat;1613413 wrote: I thought I had lost my switch last week- but it turns out all I had to do was hang tight and stay away from booze for a few days. I think once the switch occurs the real struggle is a mental one.

Fred -I think your point is very-very real and I hope others will read this.

[RedThread12]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Ya-hooie, Xad!!! THANK YOU for getting your arse here so we know what you've doing - AGAIN! And for adding the next entry into "what to do if I lose my switch" library of information. We've missed you. And your really, really helpful perspective and insights. Hope you hang around a while again some more!!!

And keep reading . . . where you are is NOT unknown to many ex-alkies. Looks like you are still on your way out.

[skullbabyland]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Xadrian;1613385 wrote: From December 28 till December 31, I increased every day with 10 mg until I reached 150 mg, which is more than 50% over my previous switch dose.

I experienced whole day head-aches and was extremely tired and extremely depressed.
Instead of drinking less, I even drank more: 14 beers on January 5 and 18 beers on January 7.

I concluded that this was not normal and decided to take a different approach, which was going back to zero baclofen in steps of 10 mgs a day, stay at zero for a while and start again.

So on January 8 I went to 140 mg and so on to 100 mg on January 12.
Although I had a desire for beer, I did not buy any, but it has been kind of a struggle.

I stopped decreasing the baclofen and stayed at 100 mg.
Yesterday I bought groceries and when I returned, my wife asked: "Where's the beer?"
It turns out I didn't buy any, because I didn't want to.

So, hopefully, there's my switch again, but it's really a weird switch this time.
Day 8 AF so far and feeling extremely depressed.
I will take the day off to do some things that are not so stressfull.

X,

I'm so glad to hear that you've experienced your desire to buy alcohol diminish, that is great!! That said-- this fast of a titration (both up and then down) sounds really scary to me. I'm not trying to criticize at all-- just the opposite-- just concerned about depression SE's at such a fast increase/decrease. Are you concerned about this at all?

I know I am about the most wimpy person on this board when it comes to sensitivity to SE's, so maybe my worry is unfounded, but just thought I'd throw out the question. Would it be good to slow down the titration?

EDIT- Oh I see now that you're holding steady at 100mg now... I missed that in my original readthrough. Good luck X and keep us updated!

[Xadrian]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Last Friday I drank 10 beers, Saturday again 10 beers and yesterday the last 4 to empty the case.
I have thoughts of buying a new case today.

Although I am extremely stressed, still being at 100 mgs baclofen and possibly not able to drink more than 10 beers per day, this is ridiculous.

Two possible scenarios: Either I really lost my switch or the Sandoz brand is crap. At least, for me.
Anybody else on Sandoz?

Anyway, I'm done with it for now and I will get down to 0 mgs in intervals of 10 mg per day.
I know that it's pretty fast and it will not be fun, but in the event I will experience unbearable negative thoughts or other withdrawal effects, I will stay on that dose for a while or even increase a little.

I will keep you updated. Possibly I will trying to switch again as soon as the local pharmacies have another brand again. I will keep asking them.

[kronkcarr]

Increased or even lost switch dose

X,

Crap. 😬. I hope it's the brand. Keep posting.

[Xadrian]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Instead of going down to zero, I dropped only 10 mgs and stayed there. My SE's almost were gone and I figured that it would be better to stay at 90 mgs until I can get access to another brand than to start all over again.

After calling around for the last week, yesterday afternoon I finally got another brand: Actavis. Instead of slowly mixing it with the Sandoz I have left, I immediately switched ton Actavis.
The size of the pills is smaller and they don't taste like chalk, like the Sandoz do.
Since yesterday afternoon I have 90 mgs in by now.
I will keep you informed if I notice any difference than with Sandoz.

[skullbabyland]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Hi X, glad to hear about your decision to stay at 90 and find a better brand. I think you've made a really really good call. How have your drinking levels been recently? Any change, any luck, or?

Wishing you the best of luck, buddy. And glad to hear you found another brand to try. Keep us updated.

[bleep]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Was going to chime in that I didn't see the point in going down to zero only to titrate back up, but you seem to have got that.

Is this maybe a combination of two things? One might be dodgy baclofen. The other, which has happened to me, is expecting baclofen to do all the work, and being surprised and disappointed when it doesn't.


Having been effortlessly indifferent and seeing how easy it was, when I started drinking more than I wanted to again, my first and default reaction was to blame baclofen. Shitty habits and poor choices can overcome even the most positive level of indifference. Note that I'm not saying this happening - it is just something to be aware of. When I've looked back, it has normally been these two factors combined that have led to this sort of thing for me.


What always helped was a short period of forced abstinence. Even a few days lends a mental clarity that helps extraordinarily in getting through this. It's a shit place to be, but I am sure you will get through ok.

[Xadrian]

Increased or even lost switch dose

After I changed brand, my mood has changed quickly for the better. Just like in the "old" days when I first started taking baclofen.

Being on 100 mgs of the new brand, I still drank 4 beers at night. The day before yesterday I increased to 120 mgs. Yesterday, I had no beer left and had no appetite for buying new. There's wine and distilled in the house, but I never was much of a wine drinker and I really don't like whisky or rum.

So yesterday, I drank nothing. In the past, "normally" I drank 12 beers or so every 3 days, so 1 day AF doesn't mean much, but I feel the difference.

It's too short to draw conclusions, but it must be the brand. My preliminary conclusion is that the Sandoz brand contains too few baclofen. Since regulations require that it has to contain as much baclofen as on the box sais, I conclude that it might have too few active baclofen in it.

Could it be that Sandoz bought baclofen from a manufacturer that extracted most of the R-baclofen and sold them the rest, containing S-baclofen for the biggest part? That way it still would contain 10 mgs baclofen per pill, but it wouldn't be very effective.

Does anybody know if it can be tested what percentage of each stereomere is in it?
Would that be expensive and where can it be done? I really would like to know and I have some stock of it left.

I really don't hope that the University of Amsterdam's trial uses the Sandoz brand, because in that case I'm afraid for the results.

By the way, I didn't tell the pharmacist and the doctor that the Sandoz didn't work, because I already know what their reply would be. I told them that I got severe headaches from Sandoz and I was blaming the additives.

[emc]

Increased or even lost switch dose

hey Xad,
nice to see this update!

As you said it's early to draw conclusions but i do beleive a lot on that "feeling" you said to have...
This 4 beers of last night they don't mean nothing i think, but much more important is this "not appetite" of the day before.

I don't have any info about how to test different brands of a drug but i can search for it, i'm really interested too (i'm using a "local" brand of Baclofen - not an international one).
Both different addittives + not exactly the same quantity of L and R probably made you this effect.
Really important to know it and "prove" it!

Keep us updated, i know u will ;-)

[skullbabyland]

Increased or even lost switch dose

So glad to hear that you're experiencing better effects both with mood and lessened interest in drinking, X. Keep up the updates and glad for you!

[Colin]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Xadrian;1625570 wrote:
Could it be that Sandoz bought baclofen from a manufacturer that extracted most of the R-baclofen and sold them the rest, containing L-baclofen for the biggest part? That way it still would contain 10 mgs baclofen per pill, but it wouldn't be very effective.

A likely story. Still - just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Xadrian]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Colin;1625620 wrote: A likely story. Still - just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

You mean, they just extract the R-baclofen to affect me personally, like in a conspiracy, right?

Well, I meant, they extract it to use it for other purposes (because another company ordered specifically R-baclofen) and sold the remainders (mostly S-baclofen) to make extra profit instead of throwing it away, which would still be 100% baclofen but not as effective .

Thanks for your contribution, pal. Valuable input is always appreciated. Do you have another plausible explanation why the Sandoz brand doesn't seem to work for me? If so, I'd like to hear it.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Increased or even lost switch dose

Hey, X.

So, so, so glad that you are on the mend. That was very worrisome!

I've got no idea if someone could split up the molecules like that, but suffice it to say that it's such a relief that the change resolved things. Whew. And yay!

Thanks, too, for continuing to post.