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**tiptronic_ct** · December 28, 2013, 06:38 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Hi Xadrian,

I did experience quite a difference between various brands, as well as liquid baclofen.

When I switched to Pacifen due to a reliable supply being available, I had to up the dose significantly to get the same effect. If I recall correctly, I went from 210 / 220 to around 270. With the liquid, I was able to reduce it somewhat. I would suggest trying a different brand and seeing if it makes a difference. Just keep in mind that you need to switch brands gradually to minimize risk, but I'm sure you know that already.

**Xadrian** · December 28, 2013, 06:56 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

tiptronic_ct;1603929 wrote: Hi Xadrian,

I did experience quite a difference between various brands, as well as liquid baclofen.

When I switched to Pacifen due to a reliable supply being available, I had to up the dose significantly to get the same effect. If I recall correctly, I went from 210 / 220 to around 270. With the liquid, I was able to reduce it somewhat. I would suggest trying a different brand and seeing if it makes a difference. Just keep in mind that you need to switch brands gradually to minimize risk, but I'm sure you know that already.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but the pharmacies over here have only 1 brand. I can ask them if they can buy the Ratiopharm again next time they order, but I don't know if they will or can (possible restrictions of the general health care).

Anyway, glad to hear that I'm not the only one and that there's still hope to switch again.

**Fred_The_Cat** · December 28, 2013, 07:07 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Xadrian,

When did you originally start taking bac? You said you switched in April, was that the first time?

**Xadrian** · December 28, 2013, 08:00 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Fred_The_Cat;1603939 wrote: Xadrian,

When did you originally start taking bac? You said you switched in April, was that the first time?

Fred, it was April 2012. I mistyped it. Sorry for the confusion, I have corrected it.

April 2012 was the first switch. After I screwed up in February 2013, I'm now trying to switch for the second time.

**Fred_The_Cat** · December 28, 2013, 08:30 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

That's worrisome. I was hoping it was possible to eventually back off the bac so to speak. I know someone on here did that with the intent of abstaining.

**terryk** · December 28, 2013, 09:09 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Xadrian;1603935 wrote: Yes, I'm aware of that, but the pharmacies over here have only 1 brand. I can ask them if they can buy the Ratiopharm again next time they order, but I don't know if they will or can (possible restrictions of the general health care).

Tell them you think you may be having a bad reaction to the excipients (fillers/binders) in the Sandoz pills, and that the Ratiopharm suited you better. Pharmacists will be (should be) familiar, and amenable with that arguement. All generic brands are (legally) required (well, depending on the country) to have the same bioequivalence as the brand name, so arguing about potency might not be the best tack.

-tk

**Xadrian** · December 28, 2013, 09:24 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Fred_The_Cat;1603949 wrote: That's worrisome. I was hoping it was possible to eventually back off the bac so to speak. I know someone on here did that with the intent of abstaining.

Perhaps it can be done, but for your brain to regain the possibility to produce sufficient GABA again is a very, very slow process.
Then again, the question is if your brain made sufficient GABA before you started drinking.
If not, you will always need a certain amount of baclofen.

I should have decreased 10 mg every 6 months or so instead of 10 mgs every week.

I think it can be done easier if your intention is to remain abstinent, rather than to drink once in a while.

**bleep** · December 29, 2013, 04:49 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

In my experience this sounds like a brand issue. I've gone up and down a few times, and indifference has always been at the same level for me (using the same type of baclofen).

**skullbabyland** · December 29, 2013, 02:51 PM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Hey X- though I'm still relatively new, I'd second bleep's comment. if you haven't already, I'd go back and do a search on the efficacy of different brands- I know that loOp and I think terryk did some significant research on different brands.

Don't give up hope my friend-- I am sure there's an answer to be found regarding this.

**spiritwolf333** · December 29, 2013, 04:16 PM

Increased or even lost switch dose

X-sorry to hear about your new baclofen challenge. I wish had some experience to offer help but I don't. I am just hoping regain your switch -at what ever dosage and/or type it takes.

**RedThread12** · January 9, 2014, 01:34 PM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Hey Xad: How'zit goin? Just making a very fast run through the threads for the first time in a while, and am just seeing this. I can think of a couple of people that I think have had a walk down this road. If you don't find someone talking about it, shoot me a PM and I'll see if the names I'm thinking about are still around.

On the other hand - it strikes me that Dr. Ameisen had been taking baclofen for some time when he figured out another approach, and actually titrated that dose down, then started up again with the intention of going as high as it took. And your mgs/day are still pretty low in comparison to most. Looks to me like you have a LOT of room for a successful re-do! If it's done already doed? Would love to hear from you. You're presence on the board is so great! Would love to hear from you about . . . NOW!

**emc** · January 9, 2014, 02:12 PM

Increased or even lost switch dose

hello Xad,
not really a super news but ok don't worry, really!
Indifference will be back, you will simply need an higher switch but nobody can preview how much.

I saw various cases in another forum and few of them had a new indifference at less than the double.
Good for you that your first was only at quite low 90mg!
Try simply to titrate up again, as you are doing, until u feel something... again.
Don't loose trust in Baclofen, is really important.
Try to don't drink too much, will help too.
About one or another brand i think is not really important, but essential that is a good "real" Baclofen, not taken online... imho...

I thought you knew that is not possible to go down on ZERO Baclo (maybe after years, who knows... but still not tested and all the cases i know went bad).
Let's spread the voice to all the newbies!
Maintneance lower dose for life, the only way nowadays.
Really strange the case of Bleep that found the indiff at the same place, never saw anyone else.

Give some news asap.
It will work again, i don't have any doubt!

**Xadrian** · January 15, 2014, 08:36 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

From December 28 till December 31, I increased every day with 10 mg until I reached 150 mg, which is more than 50% over my previous switch dose.

I experienced whole day head-aches and was extremely tired and extremely depressed.
Instead of drinking less, I even drank more: 14 beers on January 5 and 18 beers on January 7.

I concluded that this was not normal and decided to take a different approach, which was going back to zero baclofen in steps of 10 mgs a day, stay at zero for a while and start again.

So on January 8 I went to 140 mg and so on to 100 mg on January 12.
Although I had a desire for beer, I did not buy any, but it has been kind of a struggle.

I stopped decreasing the baclofen and stayed at 100 mg.
Yesterday I bought groceries and when I returned, my wife asked: "Where's the beer?"
It turns out I didn't buy any, because I didn't want to.

So, hopefully, there's my switch again, but it's really a weird switch this time.
Day 8 AF so far and feeling extremely depressed.
I will take the day off to do some things that are not so stressfull.

**Jazi's Mum** · January 15, 2014, 09:46 AM

Increased or even lost switch dose

Hi Xadrian. Sorry you are having a struggle. You seem to know what you have to do - and fast forward you will succeed in switching again.

I'm so new at this, but I dare to say: just hang in there! All the best.
JMum

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