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    a word on caffeine

    Over Christmas I was off work for close to a week, and, with lots of spare time on my hands, indulged heavily in caffeine. (but, surprisingly, not alcohol)

    My logic has been something like this:

    "If I get blasted on soda/energy drinks I will be super productive!"

    When actually it's more like:

    "I'm so fucking blasted that I can only stand to pace around, do repetitive spreadsheet calculations or refresh websites over and over because I'm a nervous wreck!!"

    This is not a new development at all, as caffeine has been with me just as long as alcohol. I finally put 2 and 2 together and said enough is enough. I found a solution in buying a case of water bottles and refilling them with green tea so I'd have a mildly caffeinated beverage to tide me over throughout the day. This worked until I ran out, and I started buying Diet Coke in the company cafeteria again. It's so terrible, I just love that acidic taste and the energy rush and it goes soooo good with the greasy breakfast food...

    This has led to another ugly issue which I grasped just this afternoon. When my alcoholism was setting in about 3 years ago, I was an unemployed new grad living with my parents. I made a full time job of looking for a job, spending all day scouring the internet for jobs and getting blasted on 6-7 cans of Diet Mountain Dew in the process. Then, at 5:00 sharp at close-of-business, I'd start drinking 6-7 beers to relieve the tension and anxiety because I was completely exhausted. But that's old hat, I've hit the switch now, so I shouldn't need alcohol to combat anxiety anymore, right?

    Well, this past week has seen a reemergence of my old habits. I've been so wired at work that I start craving alcohol right around the time my workday ends. On a couple of occasions I've brought alcohol into the house, and today I almost went entirely off the rails by going out for a margarita before I had a phone call scheduled with a guy I want to take guitar lessons from. Obviously, something has gone wrong- I might just need to crank up the bac again. These are definite, undeniable cravings where every molecule of my being is screaming for alcohol to quell the riot.


    What's scary is that I've actually gone from a 75 mg maintenance dose to a 100 mg maintenance dose to fend off such a situation. I'm going to back off the caffeine and hope for the best, but I think that there is a definite link between caffeine/anxiety/craving that goes way beyond alcohol.

    #2
    a word on caffeine

    Hi Fred,

    It's your blood sugar going nuts from the caffeine. I have to eat small meals throughout the day to keep my cravings at night leveled out. Of course when we are sober we crave sugar to replace the sugar/carbs that are in alcohol.

    Try cutting out soda with caffeine, but don't deprive a cup or 2 of coffee in the morning. That's just one more thing labeled as "bad" that we have to give up. I'm trying to eat more Paleo. I eat more healthy fats, and don't count calories. If I do it correctly it keeps my wine cravings to a simmer, which Baclofen helps as well. I'm not sure about the increase of Bac.

    Sam

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      #3
      a word on caffeine

      Fred...

      This post resonated with me... I used to use various diet pils that would rev me up... And I think I used to alcohol to come down. I have since stopped all diets pills and still noticed it with caffeine. So now I limit my caffeine to one cup of black tea in the morning and that is it. If I feel tired I take a nap if I can instead of turning to caffeine... Even closing my eyes for 10 minutes helps. My craving have been diminishing a lot.

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        #4
        a word on caffeine

        I've had similar experiences, we just try and escape, alter how we feel.

        I keep a good stock of decaff beverages and try and actively get one of those before a caffeinated one.
        I used the Sinclair Method to beat my alcoholic drinking.

        Drank within safe limits for almost 2 years

        AF date 22/07/13

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          #5
          a word on caffeine

          No problems here - I drink a few strong coffees in the morning after a cup of tea - and usually have 2 cans of diet coke between 3-5pm (yes, I know diet coke is evil!). But I don't take in too much sugar and I stick to water and maybe a decaf coffee after dinner.

          In fact, I have found I enjoy coffee much more now that i am AF - including the taste and the fact that I don't get reflux and indigestion like I did in my drinking days.

          Comment


            #6
            a word on caffeine

            I love a nice cup of black tea i the morning but it can mess with my anxiety. Coffee's out of the question. A strong cup of coffee and I feel like I'm on amphetamines.

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              #7
              a word on caffeine

              Hey, Fred good topic. We are always attracted to stuff that can get us wired!!!! As for coffee there are many studies out there now that show a cup or two of coffee is GOOD for the brain. The bad effects come when we have more than that.

              I was going to give it up too but I missed it too much. The blood sugar swings come from not having enough protein and fat. What I do it have one good strong coffee when I first get up. Then I have a much weaker second cup but I put about a tablespoon of coconut oil in it, and either 5 tablespoons of heavy cream, or about the same amount of coconut milk. So I can have my coffee but not the blood sugar swings.

              I'm sorry, Fred, that you are feeling that old pull to drinking - or to 'something' that is disturbing you. From what I've read in the baclofen threads you might want to go up in dose a bit to see if that helps. If the Se's don't get too horrible you might be able to re-enforce your switch.
              JMum
              My first "indifference experience" Saturday January 11, 2014. Thank God for Baclofen!

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                #8
                a word on caffeine

                thomas m;1611212 wrote: A strong cup of coffee and I feel like I'm on amphetamines.
                That's why I drink it! It's also why I'm cutting back on the stuff. I like Sam's plan. Just do a couple morning cups of coffee and keep it reasonable. Gonna start tomorrow

                Comment


                  #9
                  a word on caffeine

                  coffee is definitely something ive used to make myself feel different. that said, that first coffee in the morning is just too good to give up...
                  01-01-2014 - Indifference reached, success with high dose Baclofen 295mg.

                  Baclofen prescribing guide

                  Baclofen for alcoholism - Consolidated Information - Studies, prescribing guides, links

                  Comment


                    #10
                    a word on caffeine

                    Caffeine is a major problem that is not talked about much. I never thought it was such a bad thing; after all, in all of the meetings I use to attend, the coffee pot was the most important thing -right? Well, I never was a coffee drinker but I had to have my diet cokes. And I am talking 10 to 12 a day -when sober. I would always be so jittery throughout the day. I blamed the lack of alcohol to calm my nerves and just remained jittery. Now the funny thing was (is), I switched to carbonated water. I convinced myself that it was the carbonation I needed and not the caffeine. After three or four days, I had no interest in the diet cokes -but I still thought I needed the alcohol for medicinal purposes-lol.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      a word on caffeine

                      Just got done with a book on caffeine written by a dietitian. He takes a very anti caffeine stance which I don't entirely agree with, but he pointed out an interesting point about alcoholics:

                      “Dr. Michael Liepman, a clinician who works in addiction psychiatry at Michigan State University/Kalamazoo Center for Medical Studies, has identified the following types of patients who commonly abuse caffeine. Are you among them?
                      1. Patients with insomnia who are unaware that caffeine can disturb sleep for up to eight hours. These individuals often obtain sleep medications (from physicians who do not take a caffeine history) and then become doubly addicted, often escalating dosages of both drugs over time.
                      2. Patients with anxiety disorder (panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder [GAD]) whose symptoms are aggravated by caffeine.
                      3. Alcohol abusers who drink to counteract the anxiety and/or depression produced by excess caffeine intake.
                      4. Recovering alcoholics who switch to caffeinated beverages once sober from alcohol. They become anxious, experience an overwhelming craving for alcohol sedation, and then relapse.”

                      Excerpt From: Cherniske, Stephen. “Caffeine Blues.” Warner Books, 2008-11-15. iBooks.
                      This material may be protected by copyright.

                      Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=357376876

                      Scary, especially since in the bottom of my drinking history I would have to use caffeine to blast through hangovers. He points out in the book that abusing caffeine will push your body and mind past the brink of exhaustion- which sounds a lot like a HALT scenario.

                      I'm stockpiling my green tea arsenal and will probably do 100 mg in the morning followed by 20 mg in the evening. I just moved back into the city away from the horse farm which is ground zero for bars, so I really have to be careful here.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        a word on caffeine

                        thats very interesting stuff Fred, i tick 3 / 4 boxes and at some stages all 4. When i was 16 i was able to drink a can of coke before bed and fall asleep with no problems. Now at 29 if i have any coffee after 3pm i have difficulty falling asleep and my sleep is less restful.

                        I like your approach of switching out green tea for coffee. I think a lot of the times I just need a hot drink for a break and the buzz from coffee is nice though too strong. Green tea would be a good substitute as it only has 1/4 the amount of caffeine. I think ill do the same, first ill have to slowly substitute green tea in place of coffee.
                        01-01-2014 - Indifference reached, success with high dose Baclofen 295mg.

                        Baclofen prescribing guide

                        Baclofen for alcoholism - Consolidated Information - Studies, prescribing guides, links

                        Comment


                          #13
                          a word on caffeine

                          Fred_The_Cat;1611517 wrote:

                          Scary, especially since in the bottom of my drinking history I would have to use caffeine to blast through hangovers. He points out in the book that abusing caffeine will push your body and mind past the brink of exhaustion- which sounds a lot like a HALT scenario.
                          I was doing the same thing. Energy drinks got me through a couple of years of nasty hangovers and undoubtedly added to the afternoon angst that could only be relieved with alcohol.

                          Since taking bac, I don't get the jittery tense feeling consistently like I used to. It feels different, but good and I have to admit I've been abusing caffeine for about a month now. I am going to be more careful with this.

                          Thanks for the post Fred

                          Comment


                            #14
                            a word on caffeine

                            I remember when Red bull first came out. I thought I'd give it a go to see what all the fuss was about. I swear to ch**st I very nearly had to go home fro work "sick" with panic.

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