Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

[skullbabyland]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Accel7;1618824 wrote: Thank you, Ne and Skull, for the kind words. Ok, yes, I should not be afraid merely to vent--especially on a forum like this, where sharing--both ups AND downs--helps all of us in our search for common threads that can eventually tie together to form the life ropes that get us out of the bad place.

I enjoyed the Brick By Brick link. That's how it is, isn't it? In everything from artistic endeavors to climbing out of the ashes of alcoholism ... each step, however small, builds upon the other, gets us to a new destination.

Feeling better today. Now up to 180mg/day of bac. Yest I finished my dosage of 160 by 6:30 pm and ... well, I felt I wanted more. As one poster noted, the SEs actually do seem to lessen as I go up. I think a lower dosage of bac doesn't do enough to relieve the anxiety (actually seems to worsen it), but at a higher (and steady) dose, I do feel calmer. I may even be reaching a "soft switch." No clouds parting or choirs singing that I've "made it," but there is a sense of peace now ... And I did notch my fourth AL-free nite. Then, this morning, I slept until ELEVEN AM!! Good God ... I haven't done that since I was a hormone-soaked teenager. But it felt positively delicious. Wasn't groggy or anything. I just slept and slept. I'm sure part is simply the lack of AL (and sugar) in my bloodstream. My body is probably SO tired. Felt good to get the rest I'm sure I really need.

One curious side effect of the bac ... My sleeping position has changed. Normally, I sleep on my stomach, in what's known as the "swastika position" (one arm up, one down, legs the same). It's supposedly the sign of a hedonistic personality, as it's considered the most comfortable position to sleep in, so we pleasure-seekers sleep this way. Anyway, now that I'm on HDB, I wake up and I'm on my back, hands over my head--the so-called "roi" (king) position. People who sleep this way are saying, subliminally, "bring it on, I'm exposing my body and soul and I am unafraid." I have NEVER slept this way; always on stomach or side. But now ... Am I reaching a place of such calm and peace that even when in a subconscious state (sleeping) I'm feeling confident, unafraid ... at peace with myself and the world?

Really fascinating. Also, my other SEs (chest pressure, lethargy, even reduced sex drive) have diminished significantly. Dare I say it? The bac seems to be ... working.

I am sticking with this. I am starting to see that light ...

Sounds like some very encouraging progress, Accell! Great to hear that you're beginning to feel a bit of relief with alcohol cravings and SE's. How are you feeling, having 4 days AF? Beginning to feel your mood/perspective balance at all? Also, great to hear you're getting good sleep. Don't hesitate to eat lots of healthy foods right now too, like LOTS. Your body is probably loving getting some energy replenished. Sleep and nutrition are so crazy important for healing.

So happy for you that things are beginning to look up, keep it up my friend!

[Accel7]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Four steps forward ... one step back ...

I'm a bit ashamed to admit it -- especially given the new responders on this thread who were just congratulating me on my progress -- but last night I gave in. Drank a bottle of red wine while watching the Grammys, then opened another and drank nearly half of that. Didn't feel an unstoppable craving to drink, just missed it ... and I caved. Honestly, part of me was curious how I'd feel, too. I popped a 50mg Naltrexone pill an hour prior to uncorking but, again, it had no noticeable effect. I got the usual buzz, had the usual desire to keep going once I started. I DID stop before finishing the second bottle, though--and in the "old" days I'd have easily polished that off and maybe even finished with a chaser or two of vodka to seal the buzz. So in that respect I AM a little better than I used to be. Also, was a bit curious as to whether a night of drinkage would compel me to drink again the following day. Right now, I'm feeling pretty good that I won't touch it tonight. I did my experiment, but I'm still committed to breaking the chains of booze-age. So I'm motivated not to drink. BTW ... if you're wondering ... no hangover or ill effects today. Slept tip 8:30AM and got up feeling fine.

So it seems, after trying it five times now, that naltrexone doesn't appear to be a helper for me. Hasn't curbed my desire much if at all once I start. I may keep using it if I do drink, but it's not the cure I was hoping for. Maybe it's time for antabuse? That stuff scares me, but it seems a number of you--Skull?--do use it? I guess if I'm absolutely determined not to have a drop that might be the way to go. Right now, I'm happy just to curb my intake, go more and more nights AF and slowly withdraw from the lifestyle--though maybe not cold-turkey.

The bac, though, does seem to be working in that I'm calmer when I'm not drinking. Those four straight AF nights I was fine; usually I'd be tense or pacing around without booze. And as I said, last night I wasn't hungry for a drink, just sort of missed it. But as several of you have noted, I do appreciate that stringing-together more and more AF nights will help the bac do its job--make it easier for the switch to take hold. So I will make an effort to stay dry, see what the positive effects are.

On the plus side, as noted the SEs have diminished quite a bit. No more uncomfortable chest pressure or significant breathing issues. My libido is even up. I have noted, however, that now that I'm up to 180mg I've started to feel that tingling in my hands that some have mentioned. It's not bad--certainly not enough to put me off this therapy--but it's there.

I'm curious: though I've read that bac is not addictive, do any of you feel "compelled" to take it? I'm finding I like the "flow" I'm in when I keep a steady and strong dose of bac in my bloodstream--which is why, the other night, I finished my daily 160mg and then popped another 20mg to keep the feeling going. I'm just a little concerned that it DOES mimic some of the effects of AL--that nice calming feeling anyway--and that I could get a little TOO used to it. Or maybe I'm just feeling a temporary buzz from this latest fairly high dosage?

At any rate ... I feel bad that I "let down" some of you who were giving me kudos for making progress, but I do feel that honesty is essential here, and that relapses are simply a part of this process--and certainly not a roadblock or a permanent diversion from finding the proper path out. So I've shared my hiccup and, if it happens again, I'll be honest about that, too. Meantime, I plan to be AF tonight, and maybe can top four straight AF nights going forward.

Thanks to all for contributing to this thread. I read all the comments with appreciation and respect. The advice about eating well I couldn't agree with more. Strange, but the bac actually seems to help curb my appetite! I've dropped 10 pounds, in part to reduced AL but also because of simple calorie reduction. Been juicing for dinner! And I'm not hungering for more. So thank you for all the support and input. This forum helps a lot.

[Yourfriend6116]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Please!! You didn't let me down one bit. I appreciate your honesty. Between you, me, and the thread I'm concerned about what I will do once I get through January. I also feel the urge to "test" the Bac. I think it's just the alcoholic in me. Keep posting. We are all just humans trying our best.

[spiritwolf333]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Accel7;1619197 wrote: Four steps forward ... one step back ...

I'm a bit ashamed to admit it -- especially given the new responders on this thread who were just congratulating me on my progress -- but last night I gave in. Drank a bottle of red wine while watching the Grammys, then opened another and drank nearly half of that. Didn't feel an unstoppable craving to drink, just missed it ... and I caved. Honestly, part of me was curious how I'd feel, too. I popped a 50mg Naltrexone pill an hour prior to uncorking but, again, it had no noticeable effect. I got the usual buzz, had the usual desire to keep going once I started. I DID stop before finishing the second bottle, though--and in the "old" days I'd have easily polished that off and maybe even finished with a chaser or two of vodka to seal the buzz. So in that respect I AM a little better than I used to be. Also, was a bit curious as to whether a night of drinkage would compel me to drink again the following day. Right now, I'm feeling pretty good that I won't touch it tonight. I did my experiment, but I'm still committed to breaking the chains of booze-age. So I'm motivated not to drink. BTW ... if you're wondering ... no hangover or ill effects today. Slept tip 8:30AM and got up feeling fine.

So it seems, after trying it five times now, that naltrexone doesn't appear to be a helper for me. Hasn't curbed my desire much if at all once I start. I may keep using it if I do drink, but it's not the cure I was hoping for. Maybe it's time for antabuse? That stuff scares me, but it seems a number of you--Skull?--do use it? I guess if I'm absolutely determined not to have a drop that might be the way to go. Right now, I'm happy just to curb my intake, go more and more nights AF and slowly withdraw from the lifestyle--though maybe not cold-turkey.

The bac, though, does seem to be working in that I'm calmer when I'm not drinking. Those four straight AF nights I was fine; usually I'd be tense or pacing around without booze. And as I said, last night I wasn't hungry for a drink, just sort of missed it. But as several of you have noted, I do appreciate that stringing-together more and more AF nights will help the bac do its job--make it easier for the switch to take hold. So I will make an effort to stay dry, see what the positive effects are.

On the plus side, as noted the SEs have diminished quite a bit. No more uncomfortable chest pressure or significant breathing issues. My libido is even up. I have noted, however, that now that I'm up to 180mg I've started to feel that tingling in my hands that some have mentioned. It's not bad--certainly not enough to put me off this therapy--but it's there.

I'm curious: though I've read that bac is not addictive, do any of you feel "compelled" to take it? I'm finding I like the "flow" I'm in when I keep a steady and strong dose of bac in my bloodstream--which is why, the other night, I finished my daily 160mg and then popped another 20mg to keep the feeling going. I'm just a little concerned that it DOES mimic some of the effects of AL--that nice calming feeling anyway--and that I could get a little TOO used to it. Or maybe I'm just feeling a temporary buzz from this latest fairly high dosage?

At any rate ... I feel bad that I "let down" some of you who were giving me kudos for making progress, but I do feel that honesty is essential here, and that relapses are simply a part of this process--and certainly not a roadblock or a permanent diversion from finding the proper path out. So I've shared my hiccup and, if it happens again, I'll be honest about that, too. Meantime, I plan to be AF tonight, and maybe can top four straight AF nights going forward.

Thanks to all for contributing to this thread. I read all the comments with appreciation and respect. The advice about eating well I couldn't agree with more. Strange, but the bac actually seems to help curb my appetite! I've dropped 10 pounds, in part to reduced AL but also because of simple calorie reduction. Been juicing for dinner! And I'm not hungering for more. So thank you for all the support and input. This forum helps a lot.

The reality is the fact that there is so much more involved to quitting alcohol than just not drinking. This fact sucks but it is real. If quitting were easy, I would get drunk every night. Just a thought.

[Accel7]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Whoa. Last night something ... happened ...

I NEVER expected this from my baclofen journey, but of course I shouldn't have any preconceptions; I'm doing this for the first time, and everything is new and unexpected.

Anyway, I'm now up to 180mg/day. Yesterday, after taking a 20mg pill every couple of hours, by 6PM I'd taken 140mg. So I popped the final 40mg dose in one swallow. And then ... for the next 4 hours or so ... I entered what I can only describe as an almost transcendent state. Please believe me that I'm not one given to overstatement. I hate hyperbole. I always raise a cynical eyebrow when people talk about mind-altering experiences, etc. But this was ... amazing. Hard to describe, really ... I was almost floating, felt wonderful ... the nearest thing I've ever felt in my life was being high on cocaine ... yes, it was THAT powerful -- but without the attendant jitteriness, racing heart, paranoia, etc. In the afternoon I'd taken a long walk (nearly 5 miles), and already by then the bac had made me feel a tingling in the fingers and in my lips. Not unpleasant, mind you. But there. But after the final 40mg, my lips were almost numb (again, as if I'd gummed with coke). I even had a tingle at the back of my throat ... just like coke. I kid you not: I found myself snorting for a shot of "coke drip" (which of course wasn't there, but the feeling was). I felt simply marvelous. Happy, electric but not "wired," floating almost outside myself. I do NOT think this was "the switch." I wasn't feeling "indifferent" to alcohol (if I'd had some I might have been tempted); rather, I was simply too blissful in my current state to want anything else. Just totally amazing.

I don't recall Dr. A writing about something this provocative. I know he reached a sense of calm, and certainly indifference to AL, but this was much more. It was a nothing less than a drug high. Seriously, it was powerful enough that I began to worry about the coming "crash" (those years-ago coke experiences were hard to forget). By 11PM the feelings did diminish a bit, and I felt a little panicky. So I took one more 20mg tab before bed (so 200mg total for the day). Calmed me down. The feeling was also powerful enough to scare me. I mean, am I going to be addicted to bac? There's no denying this morning I was looking forward to dosing up again. It's now 11:45AM and I've got 80mg in me so far ... slight tingle in the lips, a slight "edge" on. Not as potent as last night's "flight," but not bad. Maybe by the end of the evening, with a full 180mg in me, I may again be flying high. It definitely won't bother me if I am.

I totally did not expect this or see it coming. Up until my recent higher doses, the bac has made me jittery, sleepy but also restless, with SEs from chest pressure to racing heart. But now those have all faded into the background. I can't say I'm not thinking of AL. It's more like I'm pleased with this new floaty feeling the bac has brought. This is just ... WOW. I haven't heard of anyone else talking about this (certainly don't remember anything about it in "Le Dernier Verre"). But if any of you have had such an experience, please share! Again, I don't want to risk overstating the vibe, but it really felt like a coke high without the downsides. And it lasted much longer (at least four hours; I'd start to feel the sensation ebbing then another blissful wave would come over me). I was up until 1:45AM last night, just surfing the peaceful bliss, my lips tingly and numb, my brain full of happy electricity.

I'm not cuckoo, guys! I'm a natural-born cynic, and if you'd told me you had an experience like this I probably wouldn't have believed you. But it happened to me. A bac trip! I wonder if it will go away; maybe it was just a one- or two-time jolt from the newer high dosage. I hope not. I like the feeling (and I awoke with no hangover or any ill effects). And, of course, notched another AF night. Not planning to drink tonight, that's for sure. I may not be AL-indifferent, but I wouldn't mind another high flight like last night.

Curious as to your thoughts ...

(PS: Thank you, Yourfriend6116, for the supportive comment. I'm finding that, my missteps aside, there are big pluses to be had in this journey. Let's both keep at it ...)

[Samandkatharine]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Hi Accel,

Wow! What brand of Baclofen do you take??

My switch wasn't like your experience last night, but others may tell a different story.
I had the stomach flu 3 weeks ago and was AF for that reason for 3 days. I took advantage of that and went up on my Bac dose to 70mg. I'm sure it was my sober time that let my switch happen. I was walking thru the wine aisle at Trader Joes and couldn't be bothered. Not mind blowing like yours, for sure. The one glass my husband had after that experience tasted aweful...and it was good wine!!

Try not drinking at all, and see if the feeling continues. :goodjob:

Sam

[spiritwolf333]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

[QUOTE=Accel7;1619689]Whoa. Last night something ... happened ...

* So I popped the final 40mg dose in one swallow.
* I entered what I can only describe as an almost transcendent state.
* I was almost floating, felt wonderful ...
* the nearest thing I've ever felt in my life was being high on cocaine ... yes, it was THAT powerful --
* again, as if I'd gummed with coke).
* I even had a tingle at the back of my throat ... just like coke.
* I found myself snorting for a shot of "coke drip"
* I felt simply marvelous. Happy, electric but not "wired," floating almost outside myself.
* I was simply too blissful in my current state to want anything else. Just totally amazing. (Except Alcohol per your words -would have drank if available?)
* It was a nothing less than a drug high.
* Seriously, it was powerful enough that I began to worry about the coming "crash"
* coke experiences were hard to forget
* The feeling was also powerful enough to scare me. I mean, am I going to be addicted to bac?
* There's no denying this morning I was looking forward to dosing up again. It's now 11:45AM and I've got 80mg in me so far ... slight tingle in the lips, a slight "edge" on. Not as potent as last night's "flight," but not bad. Maybe by the end of the evening, with a full 180mg in me, I may again be flying high. It definitely won't bother me if I am. (Looking to stay high or get sober?)


* It's more like I'm pleased with this new floaty feeling the bac has brought.
* certainly don't remember anything about it in "Le Dernier Verre"). (Who? -Wow!)
* really felt like a coke high without the downsides. And it lasted much longer
* I was up until 1:45AM last night - "my brain full of happy electricity."

*I'm not cuckoo, guys!
*But it happened to me. A bac trip! I wonder if it will go away; maybe it was just a one- or two-time jolt from the newer high dosage. I hope not. I like the feeling
* I may not be AL-indifferent, but I wouldn't mind another high flight like last night.

*Thank you, Yourfriend6116, for the supportive comment.QUOTE] (Sounds like you are?)

January13, 2014: Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?


Hi Accel -Sounds like you found the next "miracle" cocaine mixture. Looks as though you have found and published "the hidden secret" regarding baclofen. It is time for all baclofen takers to fess up and admit the secret.

Great question though; "Started Bac -But Will I Stop?"

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Hi Accel,

At the risk of freaking you out, I'm going to suggest you chiiiillll out. There are several of us who have experienced hypomania, and then severe depression, from taking too much baclofen too quickly.

Dude, when I shared my experience about getting relief from SEs by going up a little bit I specifically said 10 mg! You've increased your dose 60 mg in the last 8 days! There are many accounts around here of people who have done just that and ended up in the ER, and worse. Seriously. drb120 has an experience that is worth reading, and Golfmonster. Both of these guys got a really hard time from people here (including me) because of the way that they posted and the things that they were saying, but their experiences seem to me to be a lesson.

The lesson? DON'T MESS AROUND WITH THIS MEDICATION. Seriously. You're in dangerous territory. I don't often (almost never) write this kind of thing to strangers on the internet who need to take care of themselves with no support, but I'm hoping you can navigate the whirlwind of super-calm, best-feeling-ever, and find yourself a stable place.

[spiritwolf333]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Ne/Neva Eva;1619768 wrote: Hi Accel,

The lesson? DON'T MESS AROUND WITH THIS MEDICATION. Seriously. You're in dangerous territory.

Chasing the highs from medications and then advertising your highs? Who is this to benefit? As Ne points out, baclofen is a powerful medication that can be harmful if misused (as can most meds).

[Accel7]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Well, sorry if my most recent post offended. Wasn't meant to. I'm certainly not suggesting a switch from one drug (AL) to another (bac) to get "high." And, in retrospect, using the words "high" or "trip" or "coke" probably wasn't smart on my part--especially in a forum where we're all addicts and my intent could be mistaken. No, I was simply trying to express this strange feeling that came over me.

I disagree completely that I have been abusing bac or titrating too quickly. I have read all through this forum, many others, lots of scientific papers, and of course Dr. A's book, and I have been keeping a log of my intake and my side effects. I've been doing this as purposefully as I can, and I have certainly never been chasing a "high." I'm only trying to get out of being addicted to AL. The episode from last night was simply completely unexpected, and so I wrote of it as such. I'm not "hypomanic." I was not acting strangely or doing anything out of the ordinary (my wife said only that I seemed relaxed). My titration is not any more rapid than any number of other people on here, and I've been VERY careful to monitor SEs--talking to my doctor (who checked me thoroughly when I felt I had chest pressure; nothing was wrong), taking my BP regularly, monitoring my moods, etc., with my wife as a very alert witness. I'm not headed to the ER, I can tell you that for certain. And I have no intention of "using" bac as a recreational drug. Then again, perhaps I am reaching MY switch (we are all different), and the pleasant side effects of achieving a proper dosage of bac may be my mind telling me I don't need to think about AL right now.

I get that anyone using the word "high" around here sets off alarms (I should've been more considerate of that fact). And I appreciate the immediate concern and offers of counsel. But I'm fine. I have no intention of abusing baclofen. I'm not switching one drug for another. Indeed, I plan to titrate down (yes, very slowly and carefully) as soon as I'm confident I can turn away from the bottle. I did coke a few times in my youth but was never a user, and though I'm an alcoholic I'm not a pill-popper--and won't become one.

My intent with my post was simply to share my experience on this ongoing human experiment we're all taking part in. I'm not condoning anything, not suggesting in any way that bac is a "recreational" med or any such nonsense. I simply had a unique experience and thought I'd add to the info pool.

I'm going about this whole thing as carefully as I can--and putting my progress forward (and, yes, back) out there for all to read. I shouldn't expect the forum members here to "get" who I am or where I'm coming from; you know nothing about me other than what I've shared in a few posts. So, yes, I'll be much more circumspect if/when I post going forward. My aim was simply to share, not to inflame.

[spiritwolf333]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Great info... But, you started BAC....will you be able to stop?
I just hope baclofen did not trigger your cocaine needs. Just a thought. I understand that baclofen may help cocaine addicts -just a thought.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Whew. Glad to hear all that.

I gotta tell you, I felt my response was a little out of line and had less to do with you than with a history of hearing other people overdo it and then regret it. It's come up a couple of times recently, and Spirit and I actually talked a bit about this offline. So. Sorry. (I can't help but point out that your titration is remarkably fast and while others have done it, it doesn't always result in something positive. Just had to say that. Like a bulletin, or something. Okay. I'm done.)

I hit a place when I was titrating up on baclofen that was really...lovely. Everything was copacetic, in a way. I mean, I was still drinking, so that wasn't good, but I could tell the stuff was working (FINALLY! :H) and I was just...calm. Obviously that didn't last.
EDIT TO ADD: The drinking ended, but the calm, not-reactionary Ne was replaced with just regular-old-me, minus the booze. It's still lovely, even if it's a bit uncomfortable sometimes.

Glad you're in a good place. Grab on to those good feelings! It makes the AF ride much more pleasant.

[Yourfriend6116]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

Accel7 I'm still here reading and following. I also am documenting everything and have my husband monitoring me. Thanks for sharing.
:thanks:

[kronkcarr]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

I had a similar experience my first month on baclofen. I likened it to taking acid. I spent hours outside watching hawks and butterflies. I was able to stop and just be present.

A year later I realized that I loved it because it was an altered state! It didn't last but the lack of desire to do anything lasted months!

[bleep]

Started on Bac ... But Will I Stop?

I got it too, it felt like an Ecstasy buzz. Bloody brilliant. Enjoy it while it lasts.