Baclofen not working

[935matthew]

Hi all. My husband was on 300 mg and went down to 280 mg and now is on pills like Xanax or something. So it's not working, don't think. Very devastated. I can't even get to him because there's freezing rain blizzard til Sunday between Indiana and Illinois where I'm at. Should he keep going up higher? Usually that won't matter because once he's on the pills next stop is crack and just goes off the baclofen. I wonder if baclofen really works for everyone or anyone at all. Like I said, this is truly devastating. I do have a hope maybe his indifference dose is just higher like 360 or more.

[Alky]

Baclofen not working

I learned the hard way what "indifference" means. "Indifference" for me meant that I finally had the option to say no to drink. I could just as easily drink on bac as I could without it. And I did, and had a relapse. And once I was back in that cycle, the bac did nothing. I'm just coming back to the point where I think it's having an effect, and that's having a period of abstinence now behind me. Based on my experience, your husband is trapped in a cycle that is negating any of the positive effects of the bac.

Your husband clearly needs a medically supervised detox and a stint in rehab. If I were you, I'd take him against his will if need be. It's dangerous to keep riding this out on your own, especially if his next stop is narcotics like crack.

[YouKayBee]

Baclofen not working

I am beginning to believe baclofen is similar to naltrexone TSM, each method gives you the option to slow down or quit, but you can still revert back if you chose to.

I know for TSM sedatives such as benzos lead to a reduction in success rate and I would guess that's partly because they are lowering your resolve, that said baclofen is said to help with other addictions so I'm not really sure. What I have gathered from reading stuff on here is that baclofen is an 'alternative', ie with baclofen there shouldn't be any 'need' for drugs ie it becomes an active choice.

[935matthew]

Baclofen not working

Thank you for your help. After reading the book, I came to the idea that baclofen would make you no longer even want to choose to use the substance you were addicted to, because it loses it's allure & the old reward it used to give. This is different because with alcohol, it seems many of you dabbled in drinking and then realized it didn't hold the allure it once had, and didn't bother to finish the drink or left it in the fridge or threw it out. So it could be he may have some type of similar reaction although I do not know since most people on here are using it for alcohol dependence. I'll keep this thread updated, so if anyone else is using it for crack cocaine in the future, we can begin to understand differences or if it will actually work. Just hard for me to wait as he tests the waters with baclofen, as I need/want an immediate end to this.

[935matthew]

Baclofen not working

Alky-
Thank you I reread that and a lightbulb went off in my head. I see exactly what you mean. One can easily revert back and run back to their old "friend" out of habit or what have you, and then the horrific cycle takes over, the addiction becoming fueled each time you use it. He has to decide not to run to crack and use the ability baclofen gives to say no- much easier said than done. But it gives him way more of a chance than with no baclofen.

And as I've read the study someone posted on here, some in the study saw a measurable reduction in their substance use, at least, which I'm sure is still preferable. He should also keep up with AA, counseling(too bad no financial means for that), and church (which helps him the most, getting 2 years in the past). It's a tough struggle (felt like a horrific nightmare this time after thinking it was over with the baclofen), but I still have hope. I guess the rest is up to him learning like everyone else did that you don't actually want the substance any more, and just say no to it & goodbye since now you are better able hopefully. I think it's hard giving up something that has dominated your life, thoughts, soul & existence and kept you in bondage to it for most of your life. You needed it to survive before like oxygen almost, and hopefully baclofen can allow you to say goodbye and good riddance.

I'll post updates, hoping they are good ones. It's nice how others share learning experiences.

[Alky]

Baclofen not working

Dear Mrs. 935 Matthew, AA and church are all fine and well after your husband is clean. Pardon my bluntness, but I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. He is at an extremely high dose of baclofen. Baclofen's primary use is as a muscle relaxant. Depending on how much xanax (or whatever other benzo he is taking), worst case scenario, you could wake up one morning to find out he just stopped breathing in the middle of night. And it's dangerous to cut him off the benzos cold turkey as well because he could have a seizure that might kill him. Your husband is treading extremely dangerous waters. I know medical detox can be expensive, but is your husband's life worth it? Think of it this way - it's money that would have otherwise been spent on drugs. He needs to go ASAP.

[Alky]

Baclofen not working

You mentioned you were in Illinois or Indiana:

Here is a link to the Illinois Department of Human Services Division of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse:
DHS: Division of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse - DHS 4650

Here is a link to the Indiana Family and Social Services Administration Division of Mental Health and Addiction:
FSSA - DMHA: DMHA

[neophyte]

Baclofen not working

usual disclaimer - im not a doctor

Just a word of caution at this stage on a medically supervised detox, remember that he is also dependent on high dose baclofen now. Sudden withdrawal from baclofen is dangerous, similar to benzos you run the risk of seizures and other nasty effects. I remember reading here that benzos DO NOT alleviate the seizures from baclofen, only more baclofen does (correct me if im wrong here). Given that unique aspect of baclofen withdrawal, the detox facility needs to know in no uncertain terms how to deal with someone who is going to withdrawal cold turkey from baclofen, alcohol and potentially a benzo addiction. Thats probably something that isn't treated very often and perhaps there is not even a protocol in place to handle it. They may just try and alleviate any withdrawal symptoms with benzos and if that does not work for baclofen, it could be dangerous. Alternatively, you could ask the clinic to not withdraw him from baclofen, but you would need to talk to them about it, they might just see it as another drug of addiction, it is a gaba agonist after all.

As for failure to reach the switch, i reached mine at 295mg but i also have problems with codeine addiction. As to baclofen reducing the desire to consume other drugs, it does, but i am still consuming codeine, though at a reduced amount. I plan on going further once some current life stressors improve, in the next few months hopefully.

The point im making with my switch dose is that it was quite high at 295mg, doing some reading of the 2 year study shows that people with dual addicitons require higher switches. so 300mg for your husband might not be enough. Though its a complicated situation with crack, benzos and alcohol plus any other drugs consumed. Ideally you need a professional who understands addiction well and knows baclofen treatment. but those are hard to come by.

Could he perhaps try and stick to crack and alcohol and wait for the baclofen to work, avoiding benzos?

[Alky]

Baclofen not working

Neo, we're usually on the same page, but suggesting that he "avoid benzos" after being on them God knows how long is potentially asking for serious trouble. You are right in that there might not even be a protocol in place because I, too, think these are uncharted waters. That notwithstanding, the responsible thing to do is for his wife to get off this message board and get him into detox.

[neophyte]

Baclofen not working

Alky;1621668 wrote: Neo, we're usually on the same page, but suggesting that he "avoid benzos" after being on them God knows how long is potentially asking for serious trouble. You are right in that there might not even be a protocol in place because I, too, think these are uncharted waters. That notwithstanding, the responsible thing to do is for his wife to get off this message board and get him into detox.

true, if he is dependent, then he should definielty not just avoid benzos.

[RedThread12]

Baclofen not working

Not to up the alarm factor - in fact, if Matthew is even minimally managing where he is, I would vote for staying right there for now. What is his source for baclofen? The range you report is not stratospheric, but the benzos and cocaine must have set up his brain chemistry to be tolerant to everything.

I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice. This is what I would do if it were me or you. I would continue to titrate up with baclofen pills. The benzos are malevolent, but cannot be dropped immediately. Does Matthew have unlimited sources for all of this? Is he in charge of what he is taking? Is he sleeping?

Of the entire scenario, I hate Xanax the most. If you could get Klonopin and begin to substitute that for the Xanax for a while, the "rebound" panic will diminish. Pardon my French, but hey . . . Matthew . . . why TF does crack cocaine sound like a good idea? Aren't you climbing out of your skin as it is?

Mr. and Mrs. Matthew, I really think that if you get very serious. Because this is very serious. You can gradually increase the baclofen, substitute Xanax with Klonopin (longer half-life), ditch the crack. Yes, baclofen probably works for that addiction, but if you could reduce the sheer number of conditions you want it to help you with, my thought is that you need to be taking more baclofen than the rest of those things. Eventually, you will want to switch from Klonopin to Valium.

If you are not sleeping. I suggest Seroquel - quetiapine fumarate. But ONLY spaced wide away from any benzo. I have combined very modest doses of them with no issues. In fact, if sleep is the issue, wait & hours after taking any benzo before taking Seroquel. A lot of people don't like the "groggy," but sleep is sleep, and our body's have to have it.

I am reading this late at night. This protocol will take some time and some monitoring. And Matthew, there will be times it could be pretty uncomfortable. Just upping the bac, switching to Klonopin and getting some sleep may make a world of difference.

[Mandiekinz]

Baclofen not working

Look, I'm sorry you're going through a very difficult time. It must be very hard on you...try to understand it from our point. And know that this DOES WORK...we just have to work with it.

I did that to my SO just last year. I took off from Missouri to Chicago at 250mg and went insane, shredded it up. I was also doing coke, drinking heavy, eating acid and popping x almost every night.

I used to have a very serious crack addiction as well. All the drugs I was taking, I used to take all together on a daily basis years ago.

I never had a problem with xanax though.

Throwing him in rehab, could hurt him as they don't understand baclofen and will ween him off it abruptly. Causing catastrophic problems for him.

The point of my story is, I missed my old crazy ways, I wasn't ready to give it up. I even jumped up to 320mg right after my SO drove up to Chicago and drug me back home and I was STILL drinking heavy.

I finally had to stop my "one manned partying" b/c my body and mind was literally going way out of whack. I didn't sleep for 2 months after I stopped. I ended up having to take a lot of xanax at that time. I'd highly suggest you get some seroquel in him and force his butt to get some good needed rest.

Once he finds just a moment away from the drugs and alcohol...he'll find comfort.

I went straight back down to 270 shortly after I made it to 320 due to the massive toxins I put in my body and continuing up seemed to make things worse. I finally started to feel better and started to take better care of myself as I picked that spot and stayed at it for awhile. Moving all around in dosages seemed to wreak havoc. Dry time will HEAL. Is he really wanting sobriety?

I pulled through the massive chaos of months of fighting sobriety with baclofen, from drug addiction and alcohol. He can too. Just get him home(when it's safe), get him some sleep. Supplements, hydration and vitamins are ESSENTIAL. I suggest omega's, magnesium citrate, b-vits and a mild multi vit.

Now, I still drink from time to time, I never reached my switch, and rarely it can get a little out of control. But I am not anywhere close to where I was. But I have an understanding of where he is, and where he can be too.

Understand, everyone goes through different events, sometimes catastrophic, some with ease...but those that stick with it and pull through to the other side...will find some balance.

As for you, and your sanity. My SO asked if I would put you in contact with him. He has a HUGE understanding of the hell we can put you guys through. So if you'd like some support in that aspect, b/c trust me...he used to call up Lo0p threatening to throw me in rehab too...he can help.

You can find him here:
Stories from the Other Side... - This Is Who We Are - Baclofen For Alcoholism and Other Addictions

Best of wishes to you both..strength is in your future.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen not working

Great thread and input.

[Alky]

Baclofen not working

Mrs. Matthew935, how is your husband doing? Mandie, Neo and Red are very knowledgeable and well-meaning people. But the only people you should be taking advice from right now are people that have "MD" or "DO" after their name. And none of us qualify. Benzo and alcohol withdrawals are the most dangerous drug withdrawals there are. To just keep going up up and up on baclofen hoping that you'll hit that magic "switch" while maintaining a benzo and alcohol addiction is dangerous and irresponsible.

The other thing I wanted to say was that a good many of the people on this forum who trash AA, medical detox or rehab have never been themselves. You don't need to let their prejudices color your views of what needs to be done. Your husband, at the minimum, clearly needs a medically supervised detox to wean him off the benzos. And as far as rehab goes, Dr. A. said it best when he said in his book "rehab is a respite, not a cure." The reason rehab alone doesn't work is that once people leave and figure out all the reasons that made them want to drink, shoot up or pop pills are still there, they relapse. But that's the miracle of bac. Bac gives you the distance to "just say no" (to quote Nancy Reagan) and then apply what you learned in rehab or in AA to deal with your problems.

[Mandiekinz]

Baclofen not working

Very valid points, Alky.

All due respect, I have been through many medical detoxes and several rehabs and hundreds of AA. Medical detox could be necessary for him. The only thing I'm showing concern about is lack of knowledge that detox units and rehabilitation centers have about baclofen. As noted when the lady from The Priory(a rehab I was at once) committed suicide from being detoxed off of baclofen far too quickly. It's not about prejudices, it's about being fearful for her husband's safety due to ignorance of baclofen in the medical world. I also never insisted he continues to go up in dosage. That's one of the worst things he could do.

Mrs. M, when you call around to find a detox center and/or rehab, be sure to find out about what they plan to do about his baclofen. If they tell you they plan to ween him off of it, be sure to ask how quickly they plan to do it. My S.O. is well educated on all of this to know that if I were to be needing to get back into rehab or detox, that if they plan to ween me off more than 10mg every 5 days, to hang up and find a place that will if it's absolutely necessary for any rehab's protocol to get you off all medications.

It's a double edged sword if you're not thoroughly educated on the situation around baclofen. There's the potential for seizures and death from rapid baclofen withdrawal. There's potential for seizures and death from benzo withdrawal. When you're at home and taking benzos, it's very possible to safely and slooowwwlly ween off of them. When you're in an under-educated detox unit(on baclofen), it's not very possible to safely and slowly ween off baclofen when it is out of your control.

Just food for thought. I hope all is well and you both are safe and WARM.

We're eagerly awaiting your updates.