starting a 2nd run at bac

[takeover]

I'm inspired to start a thread with my new run at bac due to Large's thread.

Today my package arrived from India, which I ordered after being declined by US doctors (as predicted), although one is willing to consider Amiesen's book. I've started with 30 mg, and feel hopeful - for the first time in a long time. It's just a great feeling to think that I could finally regain control over something I lost hold of a long time ago.

I started a baclofen treatment 2 years back when I first read the book, but abandoned it when the side effects became too much. This time around, though, after unsuccessful runs with topiramate and naltrexone, I'm determined to stick it through. I need a solution.

What titration schedules have other members used? I see generally extremely slow ones being recommended. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get to indifference, but at the same time don't want to be nodding off all day. How about Amiesen's schedule, as described on the baclofenuk website - 30 mg to start, then up 20mg every 3rd day till the "switch"?

[Colin]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Best is if you can get your doctor more positive about high dose baclofen. This will provide the scientific justification:-
Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen: A 2-Year Observational Study of 100 Patients

and this will give advice on prescribing it:-
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59463672/Prescribing-Guide-for-Baclofen-in-the-Treatment-of-Alcoholism-Don.pdf

[Ne/Neva Eva]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Dr. Ameisen was on baclofen for a year before he titrated down and then started the process all over again. He started at 30 mg because that is what he titrated down to. He was also unemployed and sober during that time.

Being in a hurry and achieving any kind of success don't often go together. It's so rare that it's an anomaly.

[chelsea98]

starting a 2nd run at bac

as advise by my private doctor i started at 5mg 3 times a day. after 5 days i upped it to 30mg and then increased by 10mg every 4-5 days. It can take a long while, i went up to 240mg per day but that's the way to do it. slow on the way up and slow on the way down. i drank at my same levels all the way up to about 170mg per day. i then stopped and soldiered on up to my peak.

[Jazi's Mum]

starting a 2nd run at bac

I too started with .5 x 3 - started on December 30. I went up fairly slowly (the fear factor!). After about a week I was at 10 x 4, then I jumped into higher doses - now after a month and a half I'm at 80 divided into 4 I have indifference.

Now, granted, I'm a quick responder, and I've since added back the naltrexone - because this is my chance and I want to be in control...and with ADD I have a tendency to JUMP before I look.

You have had experience with baclofen before - so you know already the dangers of going up too fast!!! When will we ever learn, eh?

I'm so glad you decided to start a thread! I love to read experiences like yours - it helps us all. Thanks!!!

[skullbabyland]

starting a 2nd run at bac

takeover;1626352 wrote:
What titration schedules have other members used? I see generally extremely slow ones being recommended. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get to indifference, but at the same time don't want to be nodding off all day. How about Amiesen's schedule, as described on the baclofenuk website - 30 mg to start, then up 20mg every 3rd day till the "switch"?

In my opinion/experience slower is better- the one you reference above is far too fast in my opinion. Keep in mind that after each increase it can take up to 3-4 days for SE's to pop up.

If it's worth taking the time and trouble to do this, it's worth doing right and giving it every chance for success, and there seem to be many who sabotage it by going up super fast and have to give up and go back to square one- alcoholic drinking. Though I know there are many here who have done well at faster/higher doses so it's just my thoughts.

Best of luck!

[neophyte]

starting a 2nd run at bac

takeover;1626352 wrote:
What titration schedules have other members used? I see generally extremely slow ones being recommended. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get to indifference, but at the same time don't want to be nodding off all day. How about Amiesen's schedule, as described on the baclofenuk website - 30 mg to start, then up 20mg every 3rd day till the "switch"?

I did some maths on my logs, i went from 0 to to 295 in 113 days, so that works out to be 18mg a week increase. It felt brutal. I've been through benzo, opiate and alcohol detoxes so i thought i would be fine. more or less i was, but the sleepiness and night time insomnia was very annoying. luckily my job was pretty laid back and i could duck out and have a sleep in the park, many do not have that luxury.

towards the end i tried to increase a bit faster but i got some scary side effects - increased anxiety and some weird vision things like seeing red spots, some other stuff i dont remember, so you need to be careful going up too quickly.

thinking back, perhaps even 10mg a week would have been better.

but yes 20mg every third day is way too fast imo

[bleep]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Maybe combine the two approaches - go up quickly until SE's present, and then take it slowly. No need to go up slowly when there are no SE's, would be my logic.

[Yourfriend6116]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Hey there! Thanks for documenting your story! I started going up 10mg every 3-5 days-depending how I felt. At 100, I started going up 20 mg every 5 days. I'm at 160 now--I'm not sure I feel a switch, but I'm not drinking and that was my goal. I'm also not obsessed about not drinking/drinking. At 160 and I'm so tired so I'm going to stay here a couple more days (till 7-10 days). Dr. A and others always said/say give the dosage a couple of days to set in, and the SEs will go away. I agree with Bleep-go up at your pace, but 20 mg in 3 days is a little quick. Maybe 10-15mg every 4 days? Keep sharing!

[neophyte]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Yourfriend6116;1626548 wrote: Hey there! Thanks for documenting your story! I started going up 10mg every 3-5 days-depending how I felt. At 100, I started going up 20 mg every 5 days. I'm at 160 now--I'm not sure I feel a switch, but I'm not drinking and that was my goal. I'm also not obsessed about not drinking/drinking. At 160 and I'm so tired so I'm going to stay here a couple more days (till 7-10 days). Dr. A and others always said/say give the dosage a couple of days to set in, and the SEs will go away. I agree with Bleep-go up at your pace, but 20 mg in 3 days is a little quick. Maybe 10-15mg every 4 days? Keep sharing!

sounds like a switch to me. a switch isnt a magical panacea for your cravings and anxiety. it helps a ton, but for me, there is still that voice in my head that pops up time to time and says, well the SO is out this weekend, you could have a drink. its not an obsession, but there is the opportunist devil on my shoulder. if i partake in it, ill end up feeling terrible and wont do it again for another month.

[takeover]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Day 5 at 70 mg

Got super busy so haven't had a chance to check in since the start 4 days ago, but wanted to provide an update.

Colin- thanks for the links. I'd found the 2nd link on scribd but it wouldn't let me print, so appreciate it-

Chelsea - if you stopped drinking at 170mg - why did you continue to 240mg? Were you still feeling cravings, despite having stopped?

Yourfriend - nice work. Do you feel that 160 is "the switch" then? Do you plan to increase further or start titrating down?

Thanks for the feedback all - I guess I'm of Bleep's philosophy - as long as I'm not experiencing intolerable SEs I'm going to stick to the schedule. I repurchased Ameisen's "End of my Addiction" on kindle to see what his schedule, and experience, was.

He was starting at 30mg and titrating up 20mg every 3rd day, and he literally went from 30mg to 270mg in 5 weeks, hitting his "switch" there and staying for 12 days before coming back down to 120mg.

So, almost to the month, I'm doing his journey 10 years later, and I've followed the same schedule - this is day 5 - and it's been 30mg, 30mg, 50mg, 50mg, and today at 70mg.

Actually, surprisingly, I feel fine. I've been a little sleepy, but that tends to happen as the workweek wears on for me anyway, so it's difficult to isolate if that's the baclofen. On the positive side, just like the good Doctor's experience, I experienced reduced anxiety from day one, and mentally, I've felt much more positive. I don't know how much of this is the placebo effect, and how much due to the fact that since the very beginning I've been drinking less (and not feeling like I have to drink as much!) but - I'll take it either way!

The difference between this time and my first time is the level of commitment. I'm not sure why I seem to be experiencing less side effects than last time - perhaps it's because mentally, I've committed to doing this (and have tried other things like naltrexone in the interim, so am convinced this is the ideal way.)

It's helpful for me to document this, and therapeutic to hear from all of you - feels like a bit of support, thanks! - now, some of the things that I feel the alcohol was masking come to light, and though it's a bit uncomfortable, it feels much better to be facing things up. Could it be the baclofen? Either way, I'm glad Amiesen blazed the trail.. Will continue to post.

[takeover]

starting a 2nd run at bac

Also - 2nd attempt at GP support, and citalopram (celexa)

I should also note that I have a 2nd appointment, with a different GP than the one that denied my baclofen request.

I am assembling studies to give/mail to him before our appointment because he actually responded to the baclofen off-label inquiry with an open mind. Unlike the 1st - who physically refused to even LOOK at Addolorato's study - he expressed interest, asked who Amiesen was, but since we had 15 minutes like almost all GPs, he instead prescribed citalopram (celexa) and asked me to try it for a month.

Given his reaction - not one of a mind firmly closed - I intend on sending him some literature, and having a discussion at my next appointment in 3 weeks in the hopes of getting medical support for the high-dose baclofen. So thanks again to Colin for studies sent along and to others that may want to send...

I'm generally anti-SSRIs, given my experiences on them (vomiting, sexual side effects, etc.) However, I sort of feel like I want to give it a good-faith try - at least a week or so - just to let the doctor know I've tried the more traditional ways. Do we have any threads on the interactions between celexa and baclofen, or SSRIs in general?

Again, I'm predisposed against the SSRIs - but I would really prefer to be able to work with a GP on the whole baclofen thing- just not sure about mixing the two.

PS Just came across this thread - has me rethinking celexa-
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...l-5-43035.html

[neophyte]

starting a 2nd run at bac

im not a doctor, but this is my opinion

takeover - there is a lot of anecdotal claims of ssris increasing the cravings on alcohol, many members on MWO have experienced this, do a search online and you will see more claims. i dont know if there are any studies backing this. i do have my own experience. i've been on 50mg of zoloft for years and i believe it partially caused my alcoholism. when i was stable on bac i updated the zoloft to 100mg and the cravings came back stronger, so i went back to 50 and i plan on discontinuing it completely and reducing my bac down.

your experience with general doctors does not surprise me, i encoutered the same thing in Australia. you come in with a specific psycholigcal complaint of alcoholism and its therapy + ssri all the time. the therapy can work for some but it didnt for me and my cravings in particular. I believe the problem is that with your day clinic doctors they arn't well versed in addiction/ alcoholism and don't appreciate people coming into their office to "school" them on their line of business. the majority see alcoholism as a self inflicted disease, their opinion like so many ohters in the general public is "if alcohol is a problem, stop drinking and it will get better, it will be hard at first, but it will get better over time". i had one therapist tell me to log my drinks, then aim to reduce it by 10% and then continue to do so each week until i was off and if i had cravings to go for a walk. This is clearly someone who doesnt understand. alcohol when consumed reduces inhibitions, so there goes this idea which any person would have tried when battling their addiction.

i find that doctors have it all backwards people who come in feeling a bit sad / anxious should not be given drugs but to be told to improve their life style - go out for a walk, exersize more, aim to socialsie more, eat better food etc. alcoholics and people who have in no uncertain terms disrupted the chemical balance in their brain and should have medication and psycholical help, much higher up the totem pole as a first/second line treatment then a 5th or 6th as it is now, especially when this has been going on for some time, a 5 year alcoholic whos tried and failed multiple times shouldnt have to keep visiting doctors, telling the same story with the recieving doctor, not even looking them in the eyes

[freedom4me]

starting a 2nd run at bac

I'm new to the forum and I'm not on baclofen yet (it should come in this week), but I read Dr. Phillip Thomas' Baclofen Handbook which was very, very helpful and I will read and reread it once I'm actually taking baclofen.. It also gives the interactions of other drugs you may be taking. His website: baclofen4alcoholism.com has a link to download his book if you have an iphone/ipad/mac from ibookstore. He also has the book for sale through amazon.com & through lulu.com (lulu.com is cheaper). You can also email him (see his website) as I did and ask questions if needed, be aware he may take 3-4 days to respond. God Speed on your journey. Please give us many updates as we all learn from each other.

[Xadrian]

starting a 2nd run at bac

freedom4me;1627896 wrote: I read Dr. Phillip Thomas' Baclofen Handbook which was very, very helpful and I will read and reread it once I'm actually taking baclofen.. It also gives the interactions of other drugs you may be taking.

Personally, I don't like the guy, but I think much of his information is correct.