Where is everybody?

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

Ne/Neva Eva;1651611 wrote: So silly.

Spirit, if you don't want to drink, don't drink. If you don't want to drink, and you still drink, then you're not indifferent.

I would also suggest that you temper the impulse to suggest that teetotal is the only measure of success. In fact, it's more than likely a way to set oneself up for failure. And success with baclofen does not require abstinence. Ever. At all.

NE, my view of success with alcoholism does not hinge on teetotalism. In fact, in my view, success for an alcoholic or an abusive drinker can begin with "just one less" than yesterday. For me, my measure of success, or better yet, my measure of real living is not drinking any alcohol to change the way the way that I feel or think. And, if I take chemicals to change how I think or feel, then perhaps I am still unwilling to accept my reality -even if just for one night of drinking.

It has been my experience that there are few things in this world that require all or nothing -always somewhere in the middle. However, for me, I still find that many of the things that I participate in require me to be "Flat Out" or "Dead Stop". I just don't know that I am willing to chance a few occasional drinks ("to feel better") -even with baclofen. And perhaps I have assumed incorrectly that many people trying Baclofen for alcoholism are doing so because they "last leg" desperately needed to quit. I guess I truly did not realize that it is just a tool in the bag for many to continue drinking without consequences.

Thanks NE

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

BetterAndBetter;1652075 wrote: No problem, SW. I hear where you're coming from. In my experience, I think it would be better for someone to abstain from alcohol, but baclofen seems to create the allowance of moderate consumption in some people. One reason I drank a lot was because of anxiety which was longstanding and aggravated by the alcohol. Baclofen really addresses that for me so I'm physically not compelled to drink. I neither have "next day" effects from alcohol or persistent generalized anxiety. I feel very fortunate that this one drug helps me so much. In fact, I have an esential tremor... causes a mild to severe shaking in the hands... had it since childhood... father, sister and kid all have it... anyway.. I used to shake severely on mornings after drinking even moderate amounts and one of the only ways to stop it was more alcohol. Baclofen, strangely enough, eliminated the shaking caused by the essential tremor... aggravated by alcohol... making it even easier for me to abstain. I'm just a lucky person who has gotten great benefit, on a lot of fronts, from baclofen. Using it low-dose is perfect for me and I can drink without fretting about it because it addresses my specific needs. I just choose not to drink much because it is a toxin and not good for me in amounts greater than moderation. I tried high dose titration, while drinking, initially, and that was pretty bad in terms of side effects. I tried high dose not drinking and still a lot of SEs. For me, 60-80mgs a day divided-dose seems most ideal for me. I get all the benefits of bac and no side effects at all. It's really just been about personal experimentation and I suspect the effects will be similar but different for each person. Without an attentive MD we all have to figure out how to personalize this, IMO, amazing pharmaceutical tool for ourselves. All the best!

Thank you B&B

This truly is the type of information that a newcomer as well as ongoing taker of baclofen can use in helping him or her make their own alcohol intake decisions.

From what I understand in your post:
(1) Baclofen truly does/did give you the option to drink or not to drink -even if only 1
(2) At a low maintenance dose of 60mg to 80mg, the alcohol problem does not exist
(3) Baclofen not only addressed you some non-alcohol physical problems, it conquered physical alcohol addiction illnesses.
(4) There does exist a realm of personal experimentation time that is required to finally find out what works for each individual.

Again, thanks for a great informative post.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Where is everybody?

spiritwolf333;1652092 wrote: I just don't know that I am willing to chance a few occasional drinks ("to feel better") -even with baclofen. And perhaps I have assumed incorrectly that many people trying Baclofen for alcoholism are doing so because they "last leg" desperately needed to quit. I guess I truly did not realize that it is just a tool in the bag for many to continue drinking without consequences.

Thanks NE

No one said anything about drinking to "feel better" or that it's a tool to "continue drinking without consequences."

No one. Not ever. Certainly not me.

I know you don't get it, Spirit. I get that you don't get it. Your choice is to remain completely abstinent. Mine is that a glass of red wine with a good meal has absolutely no ill effects on my life or my health. I'm not escaping anything. I'm not trying to feel better. In fact, I have only a couple of rules about drinking...

I don't drink to celebrate and I don't drink to wallow. I don't drink when I'm stressed or because I had a bad day. Drinking stole enough of my good times so it doesn't have any place in anything I have to celebrate. And drinking makes everything worse, and there is no need to prolong a bad mood, or a bad day, much less a life tragedy.

I share that not because I think it's a Good Rule for other people to follow. I share it because I want to be clear that what you think about drinking is not what I think about drinking. And your perception of how or why I drink is simply...wrong.

I gave it a lot of thought in my first year, too. Now? Not so much. If I wanted to live my life in fear of my next drink, I'd still be going to AA. Instead I take all those steps that we know help people to live full and productive lives. You know what they are. Therapy. Support. Exercise. Nutrition. I mostly suck at them, but I still do it. What about you?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Where is everybody?

I need to add the disclaimer that I am not suggesting that drinking is a good thing. If someone is new to baclofen, or still titrating up, it makes life almost excruciating. At least that was my experience. I wasn't sure I would live through it on some days. Seriously. I wish that I could have talked old self into attempting some sort of control over my drinking. At the time, I felt like I tried, but now it's impossible to imagine how I was so compelled to drink even when I didn't want to do it.

Most people quit taking baclofen before it has a chance to work. Anything you can do to give yourself the chance to let it work, you should. Anything.

And one more thing: If you think that baclofen is going to let you keep drinking, you're wrong. It doesn't work like that. If you don't change anything, nothing will change.

I have had long periods of abstinence. I have had times when I thought that all I wanted was to get out of my head, and resisted drinking because I knew it wouldn't solve anything. I knew it would make everything much worse. But I still wanted to get out of my head. I hate those times. If anything, baclofen makes it impossible to avoid reality in that way. (At least for me. I know of others who still use other things recreationally, but I don't. After Evan's death, I am even more wary of taking anything that is even remotely "feel good".)

My point is:
If I give the impression that I think it's a reasonable goal to take baclofen just so one can keep drinking, then keep reading. You haven't heard a word I've written.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Where is everybody?

Ay, Carumba.

This is an example of a perfectly good post that should never have been written for public consumption.

These are my experiences with baclofen and getting sober. I got sober with baclofen when all else failed.

I would never (neva eva eva) suggest that anyone should stop doing something that is working. The whole purpose of all of this, everything, is to stop being a slave to alcohol. However you can see fit to do it, you should do it. I don't care how you do it. Life is incredibly beautiful and richly rewarding sober, even when it sucks.

So do the steps, go to the meetings, make some friends, start running, or take the pills (preferably not all of the pills, and not all at once).

[Samandkatharine]

Where is everybody?

Ne/Neva Eva;1652342 wrote: Ay, Carumba.

This is an example of a perfectly good post that should never have been written for public consumption.

These are my experiences with baclofen and getting sober. I got sober with baclofen when all else failed.

I would never (neva eva eva) suggest that anyone should stop doing something that is working. The whole purpose of all of this, everything, is to stop being a slave to alcohol. However you can see fit to do it, you should do it. I don't care how you do it. Life is incredibly beautiful and richly rewarding sober, even when it sucks.

So do the steps, go to the meetings, make some friends, start running, or take the pills (preferably not all of the pills, and not all at once).

Amen...

[kronkcarr]

Where is everybody?

Ne posted:

I share that not because I think it's a Good Rule for other people to follow. I share it because I want to be clear that what you think about drinking is not what I think about drinking. And your perception of how or why I drink is simply...wrong.

I've thought a lot about whether to share on this topic. I'm sharing in case a newcomer reads this. I took baclofen because I understood that I could drink ocassionally on baclofen and not fall back into mindlessly drinking to escape the world.

I'm not posting to convince anyone to do his/her recovery my way nor do I want to be told to do my recovery someone else's way.

Once during my baclofen journey I got so angry at someone that I had a drink. I realized that I drank at her. I realized that she probably had no idea I was angry and the drink was just stupid. I haven't drank over emotions since. I am indifferent to alcohol. I don't think about it. I don't plan about it. I don't use it to escape. Alcohol has no hold on me.

My experience with baclofen has allowed me to mature emotionally and to stop people pleasing to my detriment. I no longer suffer people and feel miserable so I no longer drink because of that. When I drink it's because I want to taste that glass of wine or because that drink is part of a ritual with friends. I don't fear that a drink with dinner will lead me back into an entire bottle every night because I take baclofen.

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

Ne/Neva Eva;1652318 wrote:

I know you don't get it, Spirit. I get that you don't get it. Your choice is to remain completely abstinent.

(When did I ever say this?)


I don't drink to celebrate and I don't drink to wallow. I don't drink when I'm stressed or because I had a bad day. Drinking stole enough of my good times so it doesn't have any place in anything I have to celebrate. And drinking makes everything worse, and there is no need to prolong a bad mood, or a bad day, much less a life tragedy.

Ne -When you now drink, does it change the way that you feel or think?

I share that not because I think it's a Good Rule for other people to follow. I share it because I want to be clear that what you think about drinking is not what I think about drinking. And your perception of how or why I drink is simply...wrong.

When have I ever-ever commented on your drinking? NEVER EVER. I was not even sure whether you drank or not. Selfishly, I have just never thought too much about your drinking or not drinking or your other choices.


I gave it a lot of thought in my first year, too. Now? Not so much. If I wanted to live my life in fear of my next drink, I'd still be going to AA. Instead I take all those steps that we know help people to live full and productive lives. You know what they are. Therapy. Support. Exercise. Nutrition. I mostly suck at them, (say its not so)but I still do it. What about you?

NE -There are a lot of things that I "don't get". One thing that I don't think that I will ever-ever (Never) get is illogical-irrational human behavior -ESPECIALLY My Own. Sure does seem that my ego gets in the way of my otherwise well intended words and actions.

NE -Your opinion of me is NONE of MY business.

NE -Does drinking alcohol change the way that you feel or think?

NE -Overall, I am glad that you still have an open mind to the thoughts and opinions of others. It would be a shame if you lost this ability.
Thanks Ne

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

Ne/Neva Eva;1652342 wrote: Ay, Carumba.

This is an example of a perfectly good post that should never have been written for public consumption.

So do the steps, go to the meetings, make some friends, start running, or take the pills (preferably not all of the pills, and not all at once).

Sounds good to me -just takes some pills (not all the pills of course). (Free at last-no more meetings-lol)

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

Hi Skull -Thank you for this thread. I think perhaps discussions (posts) that are not productive and somewhat confrontational can become discouraging -or at least to me.

The greatest and most helpful tool that an alcoholic in transition can use to his or benefit is that of having an open mind to ideas and thoughts that don't coincide with their own. Often times I find that I struggle with having an open mind to the opinions and thoughts offered by others. I further think that I see this struggle occurring with certain other members on this forum. I must try and remember that inflated egos and the "need" to be right often times minimize or eliminate the chances for a successful transformation out of alcoholism.

When all is said and done, I guess we all are still learning and trying our own best to be better. It can sometimes feel extremely discouraging unless I truly try and look at the communications as a learning process. After all, don't we all have to deal with different types of people -both on and off chat boards?

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

kronkcarr;1652545 wrote: Ne posted:

I share that not because I think it's a Good Rule for other people to follow. I share it because I want to be clear that what you think about drinking is not what I think about drinking. And your perception of how or why I drink is simply...wrong.

I've thought a lot about whether to share on this topic. I'm sharing in case a newcomer reads this. I took baclofen because I understood that I could drink ocassionally on baclofen and not fall back into mindlessly drinking to escape the world.

I'm not posting to convince anyone to do his/her recovery my way nor do I want to be told to do my recovery someone else's way.

Once during my baclofen journey I got so angry at someone that I had a drink. I realized that I drank at her. I realized that she probably had no idea I was angry and the drink was just stupid. I haven't drank over emotions since. I am indifferent to alcohol. I don't think about it. I don't plan about it. I don't use it to escape. Alcohol has no hold on me.

My experience with baclofen has allowed me to mature emotionally and to stop people pleasing to my detriment. I no longer suffer people and feel miserable so I no longer drink because of that. When I drink it's because I want to taste that glass of wine or because that drink is part of a ritual with friends. I don't fear that a drink with dinner will lead me back into an entire bottle every night because I take baclofen.

Kronk -I think that your type of experience is important for many people to read -just as the experiences of others might be important as well.

Borderline alcoholics might find your experience extremely helpful -imo. By taking a somewhat low dosage of baclofen, they may be able to control their drinking and never have to stop altogether.

I know this; if I had read your threads and information many years ago, I would have taken baclofen and probably saved my self from future years of alcohol hell. I imagine many lurkers on MWO are in somewhat the same condition that you were in and would love to believe that they could do what you have done to curb their drinking and get a handle on their anxiety.

[bleep]

Where is everybody?

While we are the topic, can someone explain why everybody seems to have a dog avatar all of a sudden?

[Samandkatharine]

Where is everybody?

bleep;1653226 wrote: While we are the topic, can someone explain why everybody seems to have a dog avatar all of a sudden?

I'm changing mine soon. Dogs don't judge our faults. They love us unconditionally. I don't have a pitbull or a baby.

Sam

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Where is everybody?

All the cool kids were doing it.

[spiritwolf333]

Where is everybody?

bleep;1653226 wrote: While we are the topic, can someone explain why everybody seems to have a dog avatar all of a sudden?

I've been told that we try to match an avatar to our perceived personality and to the way that we think we physically appear.