Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

[Molly78]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Agree, StuckinLA, same underlying brain chemistry problem working on different personalities. Actually I wasn't suggesting that drinking wine every night is less damaging than the bingeing, just that different approaches to treatment in each case might be helpful.

I'm thinking as well of what happens afterwards to the 2 different types of drinker. If, like Ameisen, you used to just get on with your life alcohol free for weeks on end, not drinking will hardly touch your day to day experience. However, if like you & me, alcohol was an integral part of your day (come home from work, open bottle...) you need a change in outlook. I am still finding this difficult 6 months on. The initial euphoria (I'm alcohol free!!) which used to hit every morning has gone. This is the rest of my life. Not a problem during the day, although I did drink at lunchtimes on days off but not missing that. It's the coming home in the evening. It doesn't help that I live alone now, children all grown up - I so wish I could have done this when they were still at home & the evenings were busy. I can't help thinking I would have been a much better parent.

Anyway, no point in regrets. This is now. I find it really helpful to read that others are also struggling with this sort of adjustment.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Molly78;1664783 wrote:
Anyway, no point in regrets. This is now. I find it really helpful to read that others are also struggling with this sort of adjustment.

I like that attitude, Molly. Welcome to the forum.

I have to say, and I hope you'll take this the right way, that sometimes disagreements need to be resolved in order for accurate information to be available for the newcomer. (Or even those of us who have been around a while.) Trying to take those disagreements offline and deal with them, especially when it's clearly an issue of misunderstanding and not of malevolence, is my first resort. But when that fails, it's vital to make sure that the information is corrected. Otherwise, these types of threads tend to stay at the top of the list, and newcomers may believe it to be true. (Plus, it's frankly very, very annoying to say the same thing to the same person for a really long time, on and off of My Way Out, and be completely dismissed. I know that's not the "right" reaction. But I'm human. It's frustrating.)

So...Hope you'll continue to participate here, for the very reason that it's important to continue to create these stories and pass on what works and what doesn't. That's my opinion, anyway. Plus, I like it here most of the time, and I like what you've posted. Glad you signed up!

[Sarah42]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Ne/Neva Eva;1664799 wrote: I like that attitude, Molly. Welcome to the forum.

I have to say, and I hope you'll take this the right way, that sometimes disagreements need to be resolved in order for accurate information to be available for the newcomer. (Or even those of us who have been around a while.) Trying to take those disagreements offline and deal with them, especially when it's clearly an issue of misunderstanding and not of malevolence, is my first resort. But when that fails, it's vital to make sure that the information is corrected. Otherwise, these types of threads tend to stay at the top of the list, and newcomers may believe it to be true. (Plus, it's frankly very, very annoying to say the same thing to the same person for a really long time, on and off of My Way Out, and be completely dismissed. I know that's not the "right" reaction. But I'm human. It's frustrating.)

So...Hope you'll continue to participate here, for the very reason that it's important to continue to create these stories and pass on what works and what doesn't. That's my opinion, anyway. Plus, I like it here most of the time, and I like what you've posted. Glad you signed up!

sometimes disagreements need to be resolved in order for accurate information to be available for the newcomer. (Or even those of us who have been around a while.) Trying to take those disagreements offline and deal with them, especially when it's clearly an issue of misunderstanding and not of malevolence, is my first resort. But when that fails, it's vital to make sure that the information is corrected.


Are u serious? B/C you and Spirit have some sort of pissing contest we are supposed to believe what EACH/EITHER is true? Who made either of you experts? If you wanna make up offline or otherwise...then plzs do cause both of you are making me want to drink/vomit!

How in the hell do you expect us 'newcomers' to read thru this shit and devise any sort of information derived from this? It seems to me you both deviated from the point of what this thread was supposed to be about. Yes your words are so eloquently put that that each of you should get a Noble Fucking Prize.... how is that working out for you?

I came here to read about possible meds to help with my drinking, and this is what I got. Does that make you feel better??? I hope not .

Thankfully, I have the NN -and Molly I hope you look in there....it's nice, warm and cozy...no matter where you are in your journey.

Love,

Sarah

[Xadrian]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: Are u serious? B/C you and Spirit have some sort of pissing contest we are supposed to believe what EACH/EITHER is true? Who made either of you experts? If you wanna make up offline or otherwise...then plzs do cause both of you are making me want to drink/vomit!
Are you on baclofen, Sarah? And did you read more threads and posts where Spiritwolf was involved? Or did you just drop in, saw some quarreling and had your opinion ready?

Before drawing premature conclusiond, you should know that, although nobody is a real expert, there's common knowledge based on common experiences versus the personal opinion of Spiritwolf, who intentionally or more probably non-intentionally is trying to present his opinions as scientific facts.

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: How in the hell do you expect us 'newcomers' to read thru this shit and devise any sort of information derived from this?
Because Spiritwolf is posting his opinions, which are not representing the common opinions, frequently and over and over again, it is very difficult for "newcomers" to overlook his posts. Therefore, there's a big danger that "newcomers" will think that his personal opinions are scientific facts and will believe that baclofen does not work or that its effects are a fairy-tale.
It's really frustrating.

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: It seems to me you both deviated from the point of what this thread was supposed to be about.
This thread was supposed to be to present the personal opinion of Spiritwolf as a scientific fact. I don't believe that Spiritwolf has bad intentions, but he shouldn't preach his opinions like that.

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: Yes your words are so eloquently put that that each of you should get a Noble Fucking Prize.... how is that working out for you?
The sad thing is that when someone disagrees with Spiritwolf, he often will attack that someone, which will provoke similar replies.

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: I came here to read about possible meds to help with my drinking, and this is what I got.

If you want to read about possible meds to help with your drinking problem, you should read some "journey" and "experience" threads of individual people and some threads about the science and trials behind it instead of this type of threads which are launched over and over again and stay on top of the list.

You could do some effort if you really looking for help, instead of only reading top of the list threads.

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: Does that make you feel better??? I hope not.

Do you really believe that, or are you just frustrated because there's some arguing over here?

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: Thankfully, I have the NN -and Molly I hope you look in there....it's nice, warm and cozy...no matter where you are in your journey.

Nice. warm and cozy. Just like the feeling the alcohol gives you, right?

Well, I have some news for you: there's a real world that's not so nice, warm and cozy and when you gotten rid of the alcohol, even the sharp edges will become more clear.
And it's not easy to deal with that. When the addiction is gone, other problems remain and even may appear larger.
It will be a huge challenge, but now we're sober, we don't want to trade it for the alcohol.


Sarah42;1664822 wrote: Love,

Sarah

We all can use some love. Love is an underestimated medicine.
Good luck, sister.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Sarah42;1664822 wrote: sometimes disagreements need to be resolved in order for accurate information to be available for the newcomer. (Or even those of us who have been around a while.) Trying to take those disagreements offline and deal with them, especially when it's clearly an issue of misunderstanding and not of malevolence, is my first resort. But when that fails, it's vital to make sure that the information is corrected.


Are u serious? B/C you and Spirit have some sort of pissing contest we are supposed to believe what EACH/EITHER is true? Who made either of you experts? If you wanna make up offline or otherwise...then plzs do cause both of you are making me want to drink/vomit!

How in the hell do you expect us 'newcomers' to read thru this shit and devise any sort of information derived from this? It seems to me you both deviated from the point of what this thread was supposed to be about. Yes your words are so eloquently put that that each of you should get a Noble Fucking Prize.... how is that working out for you?

I came here to read about possible meds to help with my drinking, and this is what I got. Does that make you feel better??? I hope not .

Thankfully, I have the NN -and Molly I hope you look in there....it's nice, warm and cozy...no matter where you are in your journey.

Love,

Sarah

Sarah,

Just keep reading. I hope you find the answers you're looking for here. I did.

Love,
Karen

[StuckinLA]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Molly78;1664783 wrote: However, if like you & me, alcohol was an integral part of your day (come home from work, open bottle...) you need a change in outlook.

Indeed! (Un)fortunately, my change in outlook came as a giant Karmic slap in the face. Anxiety. Crippling, immediate, crushing anxiety. Panic attacks like I'd never known before in my life. Any time I drink - the withdrawal is heinous - but even when I sit down to have a drink, it doesn't make me feel good or even better. It takes 3 or 4 drinks to get past the initial anxiety that having the drink causes. And I get super-high blood pressure if I drink. No idea why, it just happens (and I've read that it happens to a not insignificant portion of the alcoholic population). So if I drink I have hypertension, and it takes about 3 weeks of abstinence for my blood pressure to return to perfectly normal.

All that is to say that for whatever reason my habits were able to just simply change and I don't even think about a drink as the answer - to any question. It's just off the table. I do believe that my experience on baclofen has helped immensely and, if not made my current outlook possible, at least set the stage for it.

Also with that said, I don't consider this "the rest of my life." This is a stage in my life, a part, a section of the continuum of experience that is making up my life. I hope to drink again at some future time - hell, I hope to drink alcoholically again, daily, destructively. But that's not what I'm doing now, and so I (try to) use this time for other things.

Best of luck and keep reading and posting! And apologies to you and to Sarah for my part in the catfights that are stubbornly staying at the top of the threads. I do feel they are important and necessary - I feel very strongly about having accurate (NOT to say one-sided) information here.

Even if I might be the cattiest of the bunch.

:l

[spiritwolf333]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Cassander;1664124 wrote: This is all a bit sad.

Both for us and for newcomers.

For us, because no one posting on this thread disagrees that baclofen is an effective treatment for alcoholism. Baclofen works.

I dare say:

---(01) Everyone of us agrees that high dose baclofen is hard to take and that some quit over the side effects without reaching indifference.

---(02). Everyone of us agrees that drinking excessively while titrating up may exacerbate the side effects and the whole trip might go smoother if we drink less while going up.

---(03). Everyone of us agrees that it is possible to drink, even heavily, while titrating up and still reach indifference.

---(04). Everyone of us agrees that alcohol is a tricky adversary and that drinking after reaching indifference entails some risk. For many reasons.

---(05). Everyone of us agrees that if you reach indifference on baclofen and keep taking your maintenance dose, you can probably drink occasionally without major risk.

---(06). Everyone of us agrees that discontinuing baclofen altogether after reaching indifference is risky.

---(07). Everyone of us agrees that reaching indifference is only the beginning of learning how to live normally without alcohol.

**** I might even say that this thread is conclusive proof of that!
(Especially for me; Spirit)
I think this thread is also a bit sad for newbies if the takeaway is that baclofen is something less than promised.

(If this has happened as a result of my posts, I am disappointed in my self for making such posts that contributed to the negativity -and I apologize to the newbies -because baclofen can work for the reduction or elimination of alcohol from one's life. It did and does for me.)

...(08). I think this thread is also a bit sad for newbies if the takeaway is that baclofen is something less than promised. Its not. Its a powerful drug. It deserves respect. It has side effects. It takes time. You might want to stop taking it. But if you don't and you just keep taking the damn pills you are more than likely to reach indifference. Baclofen works.

**** I think alcoholics just love to argue. Especially with each other. Big surprise. If we were so well adjusted in the first place we might not be who we are. Don't let the bickering on this thread stop you from trying baclofen if you really want to quit drinking alcoholically.

Cass -Very disappointing to read this last paragraph. I highly REPRESENT such remarks. Was there not a kinder-gentler way of stating the truth? (JK-needed to hear the truth again)
I am in no position to speak for my bully playmates(lol), but my senseless arguing serves no positive outcome -maybe just some sense of ego boosting or deflation.

I hope I have not offended anybody. We are who we are.

Cassander

Thank you for the input and summary. Also, thank you for offending me. I am always in need of wake up calls.

[Sarah42]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Thanks guys/gals...sorry I was frustrated and angry! I think I'll keep reading and maybe order the Dr.'s book. X- thanks for pointing me to reading others' personal experience with Baclofen...I'll do just that as well.

I wish all of you much success during your journey of being AL free!

Much love,

Sarah

[bleep]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

Ay Caramba.

[chelsea98]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

+1 for bleep

[spiritwolf333]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

terryk;1663528 wrote: Oh the tyranny of malignant cluelessness....

Spirit, thanks for being the cure for me spending too much time on this forum.

-tk

p.s. and for fucks sake, the man's name is Olivier not Oliver. Fix it in your damn signature, it's like you've been mucking around here with grape jelly on your tie for months:

Hi TK -again, thanks for your post. You post about your indifference -and wow, how awesome. But have you had periods of total abstinence? Your input could greatly help others if you so choose to post.

[guapo]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

What is the purpose of baclofen?

Is the point of baclofen to reduce your drinking, or to stop drinking, and if you do stop drinking, will that be something that you'll be needing to take for the rest of your life, because that's the way it sounds to me.

Just curious people's thoughts on that ?

[terryk]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

spiritwolf333;1671559 wrote: Hi TK -again, thanks for your post. You post about your indifference -and wow, how awesome. But have you had periods of total abstinence? Your input could greatly help others if you so choose to post.

Spirit - It's been 3 weeks, are you still playing the holier-than-thou shame game?

I've been indifferent and sober on high-dose baclofen for nearly 4 years now. I'm pretty confident that I have the experience and perspective to know that my recovery from alcoholism is both sound and sustainable. The 1 or 2 beers I have at infrequent social occasions are such a miniscule part of my life that they are hardly worth mentioning. If anything, the only impact they make is to affirm that baclofen has enabled me to beat my addiction: gone is the euphoria during drinking, and gone are the cravings after. More often than not, my glass is left on the table half full. Even so, I'm not foolish enough to believe that my experience is universal, or that it makes it okay to say that anyone else can, or should, continue to drink on baclofen.

It galls me that you think that your perfect attendance record (of what, a year?) gives you license to pass judgement on whose recovery is a valid one, or that you possess the clout, comprehension, or clarity to *lead* discussions on what treatment protocols and medications are effective, and what are not. I don't post much here anymore largely because I feel that *your* inflammatory, confused and confusing input (especially in threads like this one, "** BACLOFEN IS NOT THE SOLUTION **", etc.) has done a lot of damage against the meds forum functioning as a useful place for finding quality information about real, viable pharmacological solutions to addiction. Is it a coincidence that the traffic here has dropped to near zero lately (and I'm talking about before the recent spam attacks)?

-tk

[Fred_The_Cat]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

TK, that's no way to talk to a decorated veteran. He got a medal for being sober, so have some respect.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Do You Want to Get Sober or Just Reduce Intake?

terryk;1672577 wrote:
It galls me that you think that your perfect attendance record (of what, a year?) gives you license to pass judgement on whose recovery is a valid one,

Perhaps it is that his attendance record is not perfect, and he still drinks against his will and feels terrible about it (by his own account, five times) that this is an issue for him?

I honestly can't figure out why someone who doesn't care about booze, and is actually indifferent to it, should care so damn much about it. That is one explanation. If his recovery is not valid, if he's still insecure about it, then perhaps that also explains why there is so much insistence on finding a different solution.

But we won't actually know, Spirit, until you actually write something about your own experience. Until then, it's all just conjecture. Much like most of what is posted by you, Spirit.

conjecture - Google Search