Here we go again

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Lis, I saw your post on the other thread, about being nervous about going higher and insomnia and all that jazz...

Vastly different circumstances between you and the others who were mentioning that step. The first being that your titration has been very steady, very controlled, and without adverse affects. Much different than Tim's experience. Even his experience titrating up the second time! I think he went from zero to 160 mg/day in a week? Maybe a little more than that, but not much longer. I cannot imagine doing that now! It blows my mind that I have done that kind of thing, or that for a long time it was what we did around here. Can you imagine? No bloody wonder people had such a hard time taking this stuff.

The second is that you're already taking medication to deal with managing your sleep. I can attest that the same medication has made a HUGE difference for me, even though it is highly unlikely my inability to sleep well has anything to do with baclofen. (I could just kiss you for giving me the final impetus to try it again. No brain fog, no side effects, and the sleep is pleasant and not drugged. Amazing. I wish I'd done it years ago.)

More to come later-ish.

[Lostinspace]

Thanks, Ne. I think I've probably had the slowest titration of anyone in MWO history. That undoubtedly has something to do with why my titration has been so easy. I can't even say that I can't imagine going up so fast, because for me, this ride has been so smooth that I really don't know what bac side effects are all about. I hope it stays that way :fingers:

And I'm so happy you found the seroquel helpful. I know it's been an absolute lifesaver for me. Seriously. I was on the verge of losing my mind several months ago. It's funny to me how I used to drink at my current job daily, and no one ever seemed to notice or have a problem with that. But when my already bad insomnia got even worse, I was sent home from work and told to get some sleep before I come back. Of course, the fact that I was drinking 24/7 no doubt contributed to my lack of ability to act sane, but even so. Severe lack of sleep is truly one of the worst things you can do to yourself. (Not that you're really doing it to yourself, it just happens, but you know what I mean).

Anyway, I survived another day, and I really don't know how. We're in the full swing of one of our busy seasons. Both of the machines that I use to do my analyses were acting up and refusing to work. And of course, recent personal insults (in the form of my lazy coworker getting a higher raise than I did, even though I worked my nonexistent balls off when he did as little as possible), kept intruding into my mind as I tried to troubleshoot two machines at once, in between the million other things I have to do each day. I was so stressed out, and so angry, that I very seriously considered walking off the job.

Thankfully, my rational brain kicked in and reminded me that I need the money, and that walking off a job would seriously impair my already hurting resume (I've been fired a few times over the years for drinking on the job - very hard to explain away in interviews!). I ended up taking lunch at 11, so that I could get a half hour cool-off period to reevaluate things. I apologize. I don't have a point in all this. I'm just venting. Anyway, I drank again, little surprise. I'm gonna go stare at the tv and try to think about anything BUT work. I hope you all have great night :hug:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Morning, everybody!
I woke up this morning thinking about Call of Duty. (Thanks, reddit.) I have seen the game played once. The whole concept is so outlandish, I can't imagine playing it. Not to mention the hand-eye coordination. It concerns me that those people are going to be creating the technology I'm supposed to be using 20 years from now, and I can't use what they were using 10 years (?) ago. I started to think we should get an Xbox and learn. Then I got a grip and remembered I don't care and I definitely don't have time. Plus, I was the original nerdy gamer (Donkey Kong! ha!) for a minute before I discovered boys and booze in the same fateful summer. I have no doubt that if I learned to play (anything) that fun, I would be consumed.

What do you think, Stuck? Should we buy a something and learn how to play a game? Talk to people from all over the world while we blow shit up? (I mean, how amazingly, outrageously cool is that? Holy wow!) On a less random tangent: Do you want to move back to Chicago? Is that the goal? 1000 people? yikes! Do you know anyone? Are you teaching this semester? Do you think I should take English 101 again, instead of COD 101? (kidding.)

Bk, sister, it's not the fact that you feel like you have something profound to say. I think of this as a conversation. It doesn't always work out that way, obviously. Especially since I type like the wind, have more time than most, and like the sound of my fingers tapping the keyboard. Plus, you never know what people are going to find in your posts. Mostly, and I truly believe this, we are all just looking for like-minded individuals to share some of our daily stuff. My posts are probably more antithetical to that than most. Too. Damn. Long.

My post ^^ in response to the other thread (about insomnia as a side effect) was a bit of a rant, though I think I hid it well. I have been suggesting for years that titrating up too fast is a great way to hit a wall or end up in the ED/ER. I've actually had battles, offline and online, with some of my friends about the subject. But part of the rant is that we know so much more now than we did even a year ago. It's also frustrating when people don't take that into account. Titration can be too slow, too. And finding solutions to really uncomfortable or debilitating side effects is more important than rushing up the ladder to find "the switch" (which I have always maintained doesn't exist for most of us--that's not really how medicines work).

None of that is to suggest that side effects don't exist or that they can be completely avoided. It just ain't true. If you take enough of these pills, you're going to feel...different. Speaking of, in an effort to find a solution to my inability to concentrate, I took 300mg of gabapentin the other day. I really can't believe that it doesn't affect some people. I was absolutely stoned. Didn't know what to do with myself, either. Finally relaxed when I reminded myself that some people enjoy the feeling and I didn't have to freak out about it. (Very funny in retrospect.) I cleaned out my closet. It was very satisfying.

Seroquel, on the other hand, has been a dream. (Pun intended.) Absolutely no side effects, other than peaceful, blissful 7+ hours of sleep. Unlike the other sleep meds I've tried (and the antianxiety meds, too) I don't feel groggy in the morning, and don't feel drugged at any point. I sleep really soundly, but not so much that I don't hear the puppy when she needs to go out. And I'm dreaming again! (But not scary or weird stuff. Just dreams.)

I'm about to get back on the effort of trying to find a damn doctor in this area who has heard of but is not frightened by baclofen. I really need some solutions for the ADD symptoms, and there is the whole validation thing that comes with having an actual prescription. For the official record, for the people out there who are wondering why I have the nerve to try these drugs on myself without a doctor's blessing: It isn't by choice, dammit. And if you happen to live in California, New York, Florida, Chicago or any other major metro area in the U.S., you will very likely be able to find a doctor. Just start calling addiction psychiatrists!

Rant over. So where were we? Ah, yes. Time for some homework and stuff. Hope it's a good day! xxoo

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I forgot to mention: I'm really sorry about the job stress, Lis. It's super-frustrating when it works out like that. My husband is going through something similar, and it's very hard to figure out what's the best approach to address the situation. His boss is a bloody idiot, who literally doesn't know how to use the computer. He's never worked anywhere else and has no applicable skills to do what he does in the real world. It's bizarre. And one of the funniest aspects of this is that the boss insists on being in all of the promo stuff that the company does surrounding my husband.

Ed's kind of a big deal in the area. He does a lot of TV and radio, as well as print ads, related to his skillz. It's a draw to the community where he works, so they promote the hell out of him. We went to a show last week and there was a glossy picture advertising the community. The boss is standing in front of my husband, in chef's whites, even though he doesn't (and can't) cook, and only gets involved in the kitchen to muss things up. It's actually very, very funny. What's worse is that the boss has relatives who work in various departments, and one of them is a purchasing agent in the F and B department. A purchasing agent who should make $8/hr and makes a lot more. The purchasing agent is also in the picture. Seriously. In a chef coat, with the title in the blurb. (Which the boss insisted on rewriting, because what the marketing department wrote was all about Ed, and the boss didn't like it.)

The list of this guy's egregious and sometimes borderline illegal behavior is pretty amazing. If anyone knew the truth, he would be fired without hesitation.

I sometimes wonder if that's just part of working? I shudder to think about what I'll have to deal with in a hospital.

So, I'm sorry. It sucks. But you're not alone! (Not that it's any particular comfort, I know.)

See what happens when I take a day off? It's not just a tome, it's a Robert Browning epic poem without the benefit of any skill or point. Sorry for your luck, peeps!

[bkyogagurl]

OMG NE..... Can I just say I love you. I love everyone here.

I love checking in and reading. Never apologize. This thread helps me feel *normal* and reminds me that I am ordinary in a good way... please take more days off.

We all have struggles. Its especially special here because each of us are at different points in our journey.
I love reading about Stuck because he has tried so many different avenues and still is struggling which is nice for me because I am too...

And Lis.. on your Bac journey is so informative to me as I may choose to go down that road. Your warmth toward me has meant alot. There are days that it is nice to just be acknowleged. I love reading the your posts because you are so well spoken I feel like I am taking to you in person.

And having you Ne as sort of the Matriarch to be a guide for us still stuggling is a true gift.

I have had a chance to drink all week... The cat is away hunting and this little mouse usually take full advantage... but I have to be honest.... Something happened after I read the <ping> post... I don't know...
I haven't drank all week and am dreading even thinking about... haven't bought any alcohol. Have a nice bottle of wine 3/4 full. Took the kids to a fun restaurant where they serve ice cold draft beer~ can't remember the last time I went there and did NOT order beer...
I had an Odouls and just one. I laughed with my kiddos and came home hung out and went to bed.
got a decent nights sleep... wa lah.

It. Wasnt. That. Hard. To. Not. Drink... I call <pings> epiphanies.

Believe me I know my drinking journey is not anywhere near done.. but something is going on. I like it.

I love using my desktop cause I can type faster on it than my ipad.. but it times out and if I don't save my post I lose it.
Maybe I should hop on our big Mac instead of this dinosaur HP...

wishing all of you a fabulous day...

[Lostinspace]

I haven't kept up with modern gaming systems either, Ne. The last one I had was Nintendo (the original). What do you mean that most people don't hit a switch? It seems, from what I've read here, that reaching indifference seems to be the norm for people who stick it out and go up high enough in dose. I really hope so because, my god that bac purchase I just made was expensive. I'm used to paying $9 a month for my prescription.

I'm sorry Ed's going through so much stress at work, too. It makes each day awful. And yeah, stress is just part of work, but some jobs are definitely worse than others. I've worked places before where everyone pulled their own weight, I was treated with respect for my contribution, and I was paid a decent living wage. I miss that. I'd like to think there are more jobs like that out there, waiting for me to get my license, so that I can travel to them. I really hope so.

Bk - I'm so happy to hear you're doing so well. That's awesome, going to a place you normally would, and getting an NA beer instead. And thank you for saying what you did. That was really sweet. Also, I'm not sure what kind of writing app your iPad has (I don't have one - only an iPhone), but I always write out my posts in Note on my iPhone first. That way, it can take me as long as it takes me, without this site timing out on me. After I type, I just hold my finger on the screen, "select all," "copy," and paste it into a response box here. It takes the pressure off that whole timing off thing.

Well, I feel terrible today because I saw my bac-prescribing doctor, and for the first time in our three? four? year relationship, I lied to him. He told me the last time I saw him that he was never comfortable prescribing me bac, but he was happy to see me doing better, and then doing so well (mostly AF) at 160 mg. He said so as long as I continued not drinking (or very rarely so), he would continue prescribing. I can't afford to lose that prescription, so I told him everything was still the same as it had been last month. I hate having to lie.

I really don't think I'll have to go up much higher anyway, though. After several (not sure how many - haven't kept track) days at 180 mg, even the mild pull towards the liquor store has gone - at least today. Of course, I still drank because I'm a moron. I really can't account for why, outside of habit. But I KNOW I can easily do some AF time, if I make it a mission. I'll be making that my weekend (tomorrow through Sunday) goal, then hopefully longer than that, but I'm not going to think longer than three days at a time for now.

I was mostly indifferent already at 160 mg, up until I quit smoking. I have no idea why that threw me for a loop, but it did. I have high hopes that indifference is just around the corner for real this time, because I was almost just there. And I will seriously - from now on - put in some AF time, to help further my goals. I hope you all have a great night :hug:

[StuckInCA]

Quick flyby from me tonight. I gotta say, Ne, the new Call of Duty does look badass. Kevin Spacey is in it. Though I'm not going to get a next-gen system anytime soon - I just finally quit playing the online hockey thank Christ. I did pick up a game the other day, because it was like 12 bucks used, and I think I just wanted to purchase something, anything. Haven't played it yet though and don't have much desire to do so.

Whatevs. I've got deadlines. So there'll be no gaming for me. There will be drinking, though. Hmmmmmph. Not sure how well that's working for me. After this weekend a lot of the pressure will be off. And it looks like next weekend the girl and I are finally going to get up to Big Bear to house sit for this friend. A couple nights in a cabin on the lake, out under the stars, with almost no people around, that should do us both some good.

Nice to see you, BK. Great job on the NA beer!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Morning!
Bk, so, so great that you had an NA beer. I happen to like those, too. For a while there, we had quite a collection. I can't remember which one was my fav? Maybe the one that starts with a W? (Warsteiner or something?) And I like the dark Odouls, which is much more available. Concocting fun AF drinks is something I used to do quite regularly, actually. Stuff with seasonal fruit, or mint, lots of different kinds of herbal teas. Now I just stick with seltzer water and the very occasional Coke. (omg. Why is Coca Cola so damn good?)

Stuck, it's the learning curve that prohibits spending that amount of money and getting into it. Well, and the money. And the getting into it. Maybe, though...
Glad you guys are going to get away! Hope you have a nice, relaxing couple of days. How is she doing about her dad?

LIS, you're absolutely right about the job thing. It is not an unreasonable expectation to get paid fairly, in a place where your contributions are valued, in a constructive environment. Something for all of us to keep in mind. Quality of life is determined by what we do for a living!

As far as the switch is concerned, I was referring to the nuance in the word. Most of us didn't have an "off" light-switch experience. Even those that did have an off-switch, if you read their threads closely, you can see that the desire to drink waned progressively. (Though with blips, not unlike what you're going through now.) And then, one fateful day, the desire to drink is gone and the thought of drinking is actually repulsive. That is the "switch". Indifference is not the same at all. The repulsion doesn't last, but the indifference can last. (It isn't a given. If life revolves around drinking, even after indifference, then life will eventually lead to drinking. Right? How could it not? I remember a guy who went clubbing regularly, and reveled in his new found freedom to stay sober, if not abstinent. But...the fun of participating outweighed the lure of sobriety and gobs of baclofen coupled with gobs of booze and drugs, is a very scary combination.) So indifference (and a switch) is very much in your future.
I'm sorry you had to lie to your doctor. I don't know what to say about that. My decision about these things is clear to anyone who has read more than 6 of my posts. For me, self-preservation outweighs any other convention. Even the ones that, presumably, are there to help us and keep us safe. And while I TOTALLY understand why doctors aren't prescribing HDB, I know that there are many who do, and I trust that eventually more will. It will save too many lives, help too many people, for it not to happen. Plus, there's a patented drug in the pipeline and that will make things much more simple (and lucrative for them).

Which reminds me of two things I've been meaning to post on my own thread. It's getting late (5:30am!) so I'm not sure I'll do it this morning, but I really should.
Oh, and LIS, (and others) EXERCISE. I'll do it, too. We all need those brain cells to be plumped up and full to the brim with happy neurotransmitters, sending positive juju at lightning speed.

Peace out, peeps! Hope it's a healthy day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Also, thanks BK. Love you (all) back. :hug:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Four o'clock in the afternoon and I have have not moved from in front of the computer all day. I'm going to walk/semi-jog-ish. Because of you people. pffft.

[StuckInCA]

I went for a jog earlier, Ne, and yeah it DOES help. I don't want to be athletic or any or that shit, but I sit around, anxious, worried, and feeling like I can't breathe. Ugh, I hate that. So I go jog for about 3 miles or so, up hills, down hills, walk when I have to, then get home and think - duh, of course I can breathe... Obviously not smoking would help though

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Barely raised my heart rate on my walk. But you're right, and I need to remember that feeling when I'm out and get bored.

I'm off to my parent's weekend house for the day. I shouldn't go, I have too much to do here. Including making room for the stuff we're getting when they sell the place! But it's the last weekend before the movers and I'm going anyway. We got married there. What's more, it was my "safe place" when I was really sick and needed a place to dry out. I also have very fond memories of getting drunk, there, too.

When I got out of rehab the last time (2005?) I lived with my aunt and uncle and couldn't really drink. I was going to the weekend place a couple of days a week to help out there. I made it exactly one night alone without booze. Went to an AA meeting the day I got there, and the second day. Bought a 12 pack on my way home from the meeting and spent a glorious night under the stars, listening to really loud music and just being...It became the place I ran to when I needed to drink, rather than the place I ran to when I needed not to drink.

That's all way in the past, though. I think we can all relate to how wonderful it feels to find that solace when the white-hot-need overrides everything else. I'm eternally grateful that I don't live like that, or feel that ever. I hope, more than you know, that you guys get here. It is...freedom and the ability to just be whenever I want, without needing booze to get there.

Just occurred to me how difficult it was to post when I drank, even when I didn't want to drink and said I wasn't going to drink. Whatever. We've all been there. Worst thing I ever did was punish myself for something over which I had no control. I remember one night when I posted so drunk that a guy (who turned out to be a horrible troll later on) was urging me to go to the ER. THAT was embarrassing. And a story for a different time. ha.

Back on Monday!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Just occurred to me that no one has said anything about my puppy avatar. What is up with that? Do you need a full blown picture? Let's see if this works...



Yay! Here's another one...

[Lostinspace]

That sounds like a really nice, peaceful mini-vacation, Stuck. You deserve a break like that after all the hard work you've been putting in And I'm glad to hear you're still going for your jogs. That is a great stress reliever, but so easy to make excuses not to do when you're super busy. Good for you for making time for it.

Thanks Ne. It's good to know that the kind of roller coaster I've been on with cravings, followed by a complete lack thereof, is the norm as people are approaching the switch, or whatever you want to call it. And yeah, regardless of indifference, whenever I finally do reach it for good, my life has to stop involving nightly trips to the liquor store. So I'm going to try my absolute best to start another enforced AF period today. I was planning on starting yesterday, but I needed just a tiny bit of liquid courage in order to face going home, for reasons I'll explain in a minute. At least I bought even less than I have normally been buying recently.

And I will definitely heed your advice to start exercising again. Picking my walks back up also begins today. Although to be honest, I really don't have to push myself all that hard to go for walks when I'm not drinking. I have so much energy to burn that it would be difficult not to do something active. The only thing that ever makes it difficult is bad weather. It's supposed to rain today, and we're supposed to have our first snowstorm of the year tomorrow. I'll make sure to push my butt out the door no matter what, but I do have to say that snow in the beginning of November makes me angry. That's a December through April thing. I'm not ready for this yet!!

I hope you have a good time at your parents' weekend house, even if you feel like you don't have the time to be there. I can see why that feels like a safe space for you. And that was pretty awful to have a troll embarrass you for posting drunk. I'm glad you weren't deterred from sticking around here. And you do indeed have a beautiful dog. I actually did almost comment on your avatar when I first noticed it, but I had been drinking at the time and started to doubt whether it was truly new or not. Maybe you brought back an old avatar and I'm just too clueless to know? So I'm sorry I didn't say anything - I was just trying to keep from embarrassing myself.

So anyway, the reason I needed at least a tiny bit of liquid courage last night is because my husband and I had a huge fight on Thursday night and I was dreading seeing him. Ever since I had that talk with him about me still drinking and needing to go up on bac, he seems to be looking for signs of me drinking now, as well as reinterpreting events from the past in a much more negative light. And I honestly don't know what I said or did that tipped him off that night, but he knew I had been drinking, and was furious with me, and very loud about it. He really has a talent for making me feel like absolute sh*t. You would think that after all these years, he would realize that screaming and name calling doesn't help me to stop drinking. I really wish I could have found a way to order the bac without saying anything to him.

Anyway, I apologize. I've gone on way too long once again. I hope you guys are having a great weekend :hug:

[bkyogagurl]

Well after my oodling about how great I was doing I got completely trashed on crown last night and beer the night before... Ended up calling my parents I haven't talked to for years.
Ugh... They are divorced so I even made the effort to call both of them..
I just sat there and bawled.

I feel like total emotional shit. I wanted to post yesterday but felt so guilty about drinking that I didn't.. I should have it might have saved me from last night.

Lis- I'm so sorry you had a fight with your husband. Name calling and belittling never helps with esteem. My husband used to do that but started seeing the damage he was doing to my being and stopped. I'm living up to some of the names he called me.

Ne- your puppy is so adorable. When I feel like shit my doggie sleeps so close to me. She is so kind to me.

Hey Stuck- nice to see you too.

I justed needed to touch base as I'm feeling super emotional...
Thanks for being here.