Here we go again

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I'm not saying that my solutions are applicable to everyone and everything. I would bet that a lot of people would think I was a "bad person" for being dishonest or keeping secrets. Whatever. I know what's right for me, and us, and my loved ones in general.
After I stopped drinking against my will, I really wanted to share the whole truth with my close family. My parents, and my aunt and uncle, have explicitly told me that they don't want to know the details of the really sad/difficult times in my life. Which is sometimes frustrating, honestly. But it's their choice, for sure.

I posted the above because I want you to know that I can definitely relate. I think many of us can. The most important thing, I think, is that the shame and guilt are the things that keep us from being truly well and open and able to communicate honestly and effectively. Ban the shame, Lis. And jkttdp.

[StuckinLA]

You are neither a shithead nor an asshat, Lis. Or any of the other choice epithets. You're just doing what you can do, and even if you're still drinking here and there, you don't *seem* like you're drinking, apparently. And perception is important! It really is. If you've made so many changes that your husband is noticing a difference - and he's pleased with how you're doing - then what's the problem? You're making changes, and continuing to work on drinking less, and it's all progress not perfection, etc.

I ran into an old friend yesterday on campus. Not really a close friend, but a fellow grad student and I hadn't seen her in about a year or so. We ran into one another when I was on my way to teaching my first class of the semester, and she wanted to stop and chat for a while, and so I stopped and talked with her even though I was running late. Anyway, she kept mentioning how I looked great and looked like I was doing really well and holding everything together, then she said "you look sober, if you don't mind me saying that." Ha! I didn't get home from the airport 'till midnight and then stayed up drinking until about 3:30/4 in the morning.

Guess all I'm saying is that you just gotta do what you gotta do.

[Lostinspace]

Thanks so much for all the links to music, tk. And thanks for all the links on nutrition and strength training, as well. I appreciate as much info as I can get. I sometimes feel lost at the gym, wondering if I’m really doing things right. And I guess there’s no real right answer since there are so many different opinions on the topic. But the more I read up on it, the better informed I’ll be to design a program that works for me.

Reggie - thanks so much for all your links, too! I guess I’m gonna be a busy lady tonight listening to all that stuff, between what I got from you and tk. I never heard of that alternate meaning of “drop a duce,” either, but I guess it makes a whole lot more sense as a lyric than what I thought that song was saying - ha!

Ne - I did not see your post in time to dissuade me from going to the gym tonight, but I didn’t do anything on the treadmill. It was strength training night, and I made sure to warm up, and get my blood pumping first, on the dreaded elliptical, rather than the treadmill. God I hate those machines! You’re very right, though. I need to give myself a rest at this point. Tonight was the first time that I not only didn’t make gains in my strength training workout, I actually regressed. My body is just plain pooped. Between that and my sore, swollen ankles, it’s time to take a day or two off.

And you’re also right that my husband doesn’t need to know everything. I just felt like such an a**hole when he told me how happy and proud he is of me. It feels like a betrayal, not because I haven’t lied to him hundreds of times before, but because I actually opened up and confided in him a while back, and now I’ve gone back to hiding and lying. But in a sense, I will make it up to him all in good time when I actually do become the sober and honest woman he thinks I am now.

And thanks, Stuck. Perception *is* important, and my husband is very happy with the changes he’s seen in me. I guess I should just let him be happy and leave it at that. How have you been? Long time no update. I hope your semester is getting off to a good start.

I’m going a wee bit nutso at the moment. My windshield wipers are shot, and my husband very kindly offered to go buy me some new ones and put them on for me tonight. But he’s been gone for over an hour, so I don’t even have the new ones yet, let alone have them on my car. The only reason this is a problem is because I know that when he finally does get them on, he’s gonna want me to try them out - which means I’ll have to be able to start my car, which means passing a breathalyzer. I really kinda want to start drinking (a LOT). Where is he? Ugh!

Anyway, I’ll quit my bitching. I hope you all have a great night :hug:

[kronkcarr]

And you’re also right that my husband doesn’t need to know everything. I just felt like such an a**hole when he told me how happy and proud he is of me. It feels like a betrayal, not because I haven’t lied to him hundreds of times before, but because I actually opened up and confided in him a while back, and now I’ve gone back to hiding and lying. But in a sense, I will make it up to him all in good time when I actually do become the sober and honest woman he thinks I am now.

I’m going a wee bit nutso at the moment. My windshield wipers are shot, and my husband very kindly offered to go buy me some new ones and put them on for me tonight. But he’s been gone for over an hour, so I don’t even have the new ones yet, let alone have them on my car. The only reason this is a problem is because I know that when he finally does get them on, he’s gonna want me to try them out - which means I’ll have to be able to start my car, which means passing a breathalyzer. I really kinda want to start drinking (a LOT). Where is he? Ugh!

:

Lis, you know how people preface posts with, "I'm not a doctor"? Well here's my preface: I'm not married and wasn't with a man when I started bac. There are so many ways to do things and I certainly don't know what's best for you.

I'm guessing that your relationship has issues--for any sort of reason--your drinking, the lies you've said you told and years and time together. I disagree about lying about the amount you drink. For me part of drinking too much was also my anger and inability to speak up so I lied and was uncomfortable and really didn't like myself. For me bac took my habitual thinking and anxiety away but I had to take looks at myself and change. Sometimes it sucked and I waivered and cried but when I put my big girl panties on and faced my crap and changed I developed self esteem and confidence. It became easier for me to do and be who I was and be comfortable with my choices.


Reggie, thanks for the music. I've got to get some time to take a listen. Ne, thanks for your songs. I'll post some probably on Friday. Stuck, I'm glad you're back.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I missed my window of opportunity this morning, and have run out of time. Back tomorrow or Friday!

[dundrinkn]

Hi All. I thought I posted a few days back, but it never showed up. Bah. Anyway, I am in a bad, bad, mood but wanted to say that I am still not drinking, and still thinking about drinking way too fucking much. I may actually up the Bac a bit and see if that helps.

I have ordered deprenyl. I read that it boosts dopamine -- or something like that. I am trying it to help my mood and try and boost my libido.

My leg/nerve pain isn't intolerable but is a side-effect of the BAC. Colin and others have mentioned adding Gabapentin to the mix, but I've heard mixed reviews and that it can have a negative affect on weight which I am not willing to deal with. Frankly, if I didn't automatically add 5 pounds by drinking, I'd be drinking at this point.

Lis, I have lied to everyone about my drinking for over 4 years now. No one has a clue that I was sneaking drinking on and off during that time. I have kept it manageable and hidden. I have felt like shit when my partner has said how much she appreciates/is proud of the fact that I don't drink anymore. How amazing it is that I just decided to quit and did it. I did tell her about BAC about a year ago (after I had been on it for a year already). Told her I was going to take it for anxiety and try to control drink. I know it is sneaky alcoholic behavior, but I also know it keeps my drinking (when I am drinking) in check. I don't ever let myself go too far because I don't want to deal with being outed about it.

Ok. Gotta go back into the meeting that is putting me in this super shitty mood.

[Lostinspace]

Thanks for the input, kronk. There are some issues in my marriage. But for the most part, the vast majority of our arguments have been a result of my drunken stupidity, honestly. It’s taken me a lot of time to get it together to the point that I have. That said, there are some other issues in our relationship, but only smaller issues that I don’t feel I have a right to bring up.

For instance, when we first got together, we went backpacking together virtually every weekend (how I managed to do that physically laborious task with all that vodka in my system is beyond me! But that’s not the point.). We both worked Monday to Friday 9-5 jobs at the time, so we would take off on Friday night (to drive to the White Mountains of New Hampshire, the Green Mountains of Vermont, or the Catskills of New York, which were closest to where we lived back then), sleep in the car, then hit the trails first thing in the morning. We spent all weekend in the mountains. It was glorious!

Fast forward to today: he’s been diagnosed with arthritis in both his knees and his ankles (as well as all of his fingers, thanks to a lifetime in construction work!). He’s in so much pain, it’s hard for him to complete his job. It would be insensitive of me to ask if he could take me on a backpacking trip. He’s willing to go on mini-backpacking trips now, as he did with me once last summer (for the first time in years!), where the mileage is short, and I do the bulk of the work (collecting, and cutting up, firewood). I soooooooo miss the days when we would hike for miles into the middle of nowhere, but it’s not realistic. My future backpacking trips will be done solo.

Furthermore, he’s become boring in general (I feel REALLY guilty even saying this). Because of all the pain he has to endure each day, just to get through his job, he doesn’t want to do ANYTHING when he’s done. This presents a problem, especially now that I’m (very relatively) sober. I get bored easily. I keep pushing him to do things and he doesn’t want to. AAAAAAA!!

Anyway, I honestly think that these are the only *real* relationship issues I have in my marriage at the moment. I’ll take a good hard look at everything, and I appreciate your bringing this up, kronk, because I do have very real self-esteem and assertiveness issues elsewhere that I haven’t even begun to address.

Ne - I’m sorry we won’t hear from you today. I hope your semester is off to a good start

dun - I’m really sorry you’re in such a crappy mood and still craving alcohol so much. I’ve never heard of deprenyl, but I did a very quick google search, which told me that it’s an MAO inhibitor. Have you looked into possible dietary restrictions that you’ll need while taking it? There are certain foods/beverages that you CANNOT ingest while taking MAO inhibitors. Please be careful!

And thanks so much for saying that. I know it feels awful when we let our partners tell us how proud they are, when really we’re still drinking. But you, my dear, have been doing wonderfully as of late. You must be close to three months AF now! That’s amazing! I’m sorry you feel so bad, though. Are you still exercising? I know it’s not a magical cure-all (it’s not), but it can make you feel better in the moment. And if you’re feeling really down, feel free to imagine yourself kicking me in the virtual face for asking such a dumb question. I don’t know what else to say to help you is all. I hope things look up for you soon. Keep checking in and let us know how you’re doing.

Anyway, I took the night off from the gym. I’m kinda glad actually because I barely made it through work (I’m on my feet ALL f**king day long, and it HURTS). I did find some quick and easy answers through a google search last night, though. My ankle swelling and pain is partly to blame on my newness to running, and the overly enthusiastic overuse. BUT, it is also to blame on my shoes. I’ve seen many people online (newbies to running - on a treadmill or otherwise) who have the same problem.

One simple answer, besides the fact that I overdid it from the start, is that I was using sneakers that were never intended to be running shoes in the first place. And they were worn-down, already cast-aside, sneakers at that. In my enthusiasm to start at the gym, I never bothered buying myself proper footware. Well, now I know the folly in that. Tomorrow, assuming I’m feeling motivated (i.e. pain-free enough) to do some extra walking after being on my feet all day after work, I’m gonna go runner shoe shopping at the mall.

Other than that, I’m fine. I drank the same. I’m planning on going up in dose again soon, although, it’s a “loaded” (in my mind) dose increase. I always told myself that when I go up to 300 mg, I’ll go AF no matter what. I don’t feel ready yet and it’s not February 1st yet, so . . . should I?

[StuckinLA]

Hi everyone. Yes, it's been a while since I updated. Just haven't really felt like posting, to be honest. I've been drinking too damned much, since the last weekend in Vancouver. I had a few AF days to start the trip, but then backslid and drank all day yesterday. It's affecting work, my relationship, everything. Sober today. Really trying to sort myself out. I'll try to be around more soon. Hugs.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

So much to respond to!

Dun, I hope that the new med helps. I'm sorry things suck for you. Have you ever taken more bac than you are now? Is this a new development? Has something else changed?

Stuck, hang in there. <hugs>

I went to rehab in 2005. (Or 2006? 2005, I think. Anyway.) Everyone in my family, and most of my friends, thought I was sober for the 5 years following that. (I admitted to drinking again when I confessed that I was taking baclofen. Both the admission and the confession were based on lies, since I had never really stopped drinking and was taking way more baclofen than I said I was. And for longer.)

It was brutal. All of it. I would be on the phone with my parents and have them tell me how proud they were, while I was sucking down 2 bottles of wine. (I had to be very careful with the phone. I know we all know those stories!) My brother, who doesn't communicate well or often with me, would say the same, and ask me how I did it. He was (and is) desperate to stop drinking against his will. I finally told him the truth last summer. He was flabbergasted. And secretly relieved, since he thought there was something that I was doing that he just couldn't do. My parents and other close relatives? They don't want to know the truth. Really. I've tried, repeatedly, to share my story. It pains them. I think my uncle still has a lot of resentment about it all, and he expects some sort of 12-step amends or something. But you know what? I have a bit of anger about it all, too. I know it's not their fault, and I know it was a HUGE burden on them that I was so sick for so long, but it wasn't my fault, either. If I could tell them the truth, then they would know that things have changed and will never be the same again. That's one of the reasons I encouraged you to be honest! But honesty doesn't necessarily mean sharing the brutal parts. Next time, you could just point out that it's a struggle not to drink and will be for a long time. That the medication helps, and is the most important thing, but the disease is forever. He won't like it, but it's truth. He doesn't (in my opinion) need to have his hopes dashed when he's starting to feel comfortable.

As for abstinence and a magic number...It takes what it takes. I don't think it would be healthy to go from what you drink now to zero in a short period of time. Avoiding withdrawal, or any other major discombobulation of brain chemistry, including emotional upheaval, is a priority.

About the gym: STAY OFF YOUR FEET! Seriously, though. Shoes or not, let your ankles heal completely before you start working out again or it's only going to get worse. I know this from repeated experience. Do other things, limit your time in the gym to something much more reasonable than 6 days a week, and take it easy when you're there. You WILL get strong, and fit, and lose weight. It won't take any longer, because you'll actually be able to keep it up without injuring yourself.

Stonglifts and Starting Strength are good places to start for lifting. If you want to read something about running, I loved Born to Run. And once again, the mind thing is also important. John Kabat-Zinn's meditations are easy to get and a good starting place. I'll do that with you, too, if you want to do it. I generally skip the taste meditation, because it irritates me. (That is a joke. It's a whole meditation about a raison, ffs. Very annoying, in my not-so-humble-opinion.)

Alright, I'm out! Hope it's a good day. Mine is not stacking up to be what I hoped, and isn't helped by the ridiculousness from the other thread. I hope you guys are having a better time ignoring the drama Spirit's posts have imposed on us.

Cheers.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Sorry if some of that is lecture-y!

[Lostinspace]

Stuck, I’m sorry things are so rough right now. Please take care of yourself and get back to us when you can :hug:

Thanks for the advice, Ne. I will eventually share with my husband that it will always be an ongoing struggle, but for now, I just can’t bring myself to say anything other than “you’re right! Everything’s great!” And as far as the family goes . . . that’s even hairier. My parents have both told me they’re proud of me for overcoming drinking and you know what? I don’t even feel guilty lying to them - how horrible is that!

The vast majority of my immediate and extended family are conservative Christians (except for one atheist aunt and uncle who have no children, and one bisexual brother who still calls himself a Christian and attends, albeit a more liberal church, regularly - god, I love that brother. He’s the only person in my entire family who I can *almost* be myself around). They’ve disapproved of pretty much everything about my life that they ever knew about. I just don’t feel bad lying to them - terrible I know, but lying is my regular habit where family is involved.

And thank you for once again bringing up tapering. I know you did several days ago. I noticed it and quickly forgot about it - I’m sorry! I’m actually OK right now, physically, to go off alcohol completely. I’ve done it here and there without concern. (OK, I did use a little Xanax to combat withdrawal, but otherwise, it’s not dangerous for me to do - I have the tools. It’s NOTHING like what I’ve gone through in the past, when I was drinking at much heavier levels). But mentally is another matter. I’m not quite there yet. And maybe the best approach is to do a taper down towards February 1st. I was successful in my taper when I first started here, as you mentioned earlier, why not again? After all, they have to sell all those overpriced single shot bottles for a reason, right? I can literally dial it down a shot a day when I get closer to my quit date, without having extra lying around to tempt me.

And I am staying off those feet I took another night off from the gym. My left ankle is actually fine at this point and all I need is new sneakers. My right ankle *was* doing OK, until the last few hours of work (god I hate being on my feet all day!), at which point it started hurting more and more with each passing minute. All I can say is, thank god for my intensive ballet training earlier in life. I have a wrap-around desk at my computer, and my right leg is currently on top of it, out to the side of me behind the printer, so that I can keep it elevated while typing.

I do plan on returning to the gym tomorrow, but only for my strength training workout. And I LOVE the book Born to Run! I read it a long ass time ago (while I was inpatient for mental health issues that I won’t talk about here), but it still sticks with me. Running is the natural state of our human-ness. It’s high time we reclaim that. (When I recover, of course).

Anyway, that’s about all out of me. I hope you all have a great night!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

One of the reasons, maybe the only reason, it was so important to me to share my experience with my family is because they all have the disease, too. My parents refuse to take baclofen, which still confuses me. They go through periods where they dry out for a little while. Frankly, it's painful to watch and tough to be around them! And my brother isn't able to give up drinking. It's a lifestyle and a business model for him, one which isn't going to change anytime soon, regardless of the cost to his health and well being. It kind of breaks my heart for him.

The plans sound good. I really can't imagine that tapering wouldn't benefit you more than trying to go cold turkey. Regardless of the amount, alcohol affects everything, and a gradual transition is a good idea. I tapered my drinking the baclofen way. I kept drinking even when I couldn't drink much, despite the fact that I didn't like it and didn't want it. ha.

I woke up this morning completely convinced that I'd missed the deadline to apply to UVA for the fall. I lay in bed for quite a while berating myself for not caring enough about something so important to me that I couldn't even get the application in on time. (Mind you, it's highly unlikely that UVA is the most practical option, or that I will choose to go there. But that's not the point!)

Turns out the deadline is March 1. But the anxiety stems from the fact that I haven't gotten organized around deadlines and goals for the semester, so that's the focus for the weekend.

As an aside, it looks like I don't need the chemistry class for any of the programs I'm applying to, so I may drop it and take it at a later date. Haven't decided yet...

When're you going up in dose?

[dundrinkn]

So, today is 90 days AF. I wasn't tracking it too much until Lis mentioned it a few days ago. From all the many, many times I have done this thing, I know that those milestones (30/60/90 days, 6 months and a year) really are triggers. I am hoping that things ease up for me going into the next phase.

The last week or so has just been super shitty with some unexpected tax news (you owe more money!) and having taken on some new financial responsibilities, the timing just sucks. But it isn't the end of the world, and I really need to just relax about it. But the way my mind works is I chew on it, and chew on it -- how it's unfair, how if I had known, I would have made other choices. The mistake is a big one, made by my company. And could mean thousands of dollars in back taxes. The HR dept made the error, but they are my taxes. So I'm pretty sure I'm on the hook.

I haven't drank over it yet. Probably won't today. I might try and get some exercise in today. My neck and back completely tweaked out the past week due to the stress, so that's put a damper on working out.

Ne -- I have been about twice as high on my Bac dose. I think my switch dose is higher than where I am at 80mg. I think it is closer to 150 or 160. I was avoiding going that high because the higher I go, the more leg pain I get. And I'm not drinking. And I'm not miserable all the time. I think the misery isn't related to the alcoholism -- but it's all a brain thing, so who knows. I have been reading more on the Deprenyl, and have some concerns about it now. It's all a chemistry experiment.

Need to kick my whiney self in the ass and get motivated on writing an article I have postponed for too long. Thank you all for posting regularly. It is so nice to come here and read about how everyone is doing. Such a weird shit show on other threads. I am such an avoider and that's how I have been dealing with it. I have absolutely no tolerance for uber crazy folks. I have been wondering why I don't feel more responsible or compassionate about others who suffer. I just kinda keep my head down and do my own thing. It isn't something I'm proud of, but I don't have the energy to jump into other people's drama.

[kronkcarr]

dun, it's good to see you here. I'm sorry your world sucks now but it sounds like you have a good handle on it. Happy 90 days to you.

I hear you about the conflict. I go back and forth about being involved. I think I finally hit on how I'll move forward with it. It's silly for me to keep banging my head against the wall. I feel sad for any animal that's hurting or dead but I don't for people who repeat the same behaviors or choices again and again. I've decided that some feel unable to change and others are more comfortable in their mess.

Lis, I don't think you were here when some of us talked about Dr Gabor Mate. You might like his book In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. It's about addiction. His web site says he "marries science and compassion".

My weekend starts now and I'm very happy. I have little plans other then running my son to the mall and going to a memorial gathering. The weather is cloudy so I probably won't go to the beach. Happy weekend to all of you.

[Lostinspace]

Ne - I can certainly see the difference in wanting to share with your family if everyone also suffers the same disease. One thing that’s interesting (to me anyway) is that alcoholism is rampant on all sides of my extended family in generations past. Three of my grandparents’ parents, their siblings, etc., were raging alcoholics. (We don’t know anything about my maternal grandmother’s family because she was adopted). Those three of my grandparents sought out religion to escape that. They all strongly discouraged drinking as being a sin, and as a result, all but of couple of my extended family are complete teetotalers.

The first time my mom caught me drunk as a teenager, she screamed that “alcohol is of the devil,” among many other things about how sinful I was. I thought she was nothing more than a religious nut. By that point in life, I had experienced enough of the outside world (in public school) to know that most people aren’t as insane about certain things as she is. She is a religious nut, but what I didn’t realize until years later, when my parents finally decided to confide in me, is that alcoholism was a massive problem in my family. And, given all the research on there being a genetic component, and what they had learned from that in addition to their belief that it was purely sinful, they were always worried that their children might develop the same problem. Luckily (or unluckily, depending on how you look at it), only one of their three children ever did.

Sorry. That was an aside. I just find it interesting. I guess “AA” worked for my family - they never developed alcohol problems in the first place because of their obsessive reliance on religious practices.

I’m so sorry about the nightmare. God, I hate those nightmares! I had similar ones all the time when I was applying to graduate school (which I never finished). Why is UVA not a good option? You’ve obviously been excited about the possibility of going there. If it’s a dream of yours, there are always ways of making it practical.

Oh, and when am I going up in dose? Today. I just bumped it up to 300 mg. I didn’t really plan it to be honest, but I realized this morning that I’ve been taking 275 for what seems like a really long time now.

dun - Congrats on 90 days!! I really hope I didn’t cause an additional trigger for you by pointing that out. I know those milestones can cause unintentional, self-sabotaging freakouts. My only intent was to compliment you on how f**king awesome you’re doing! And unexpected tax news like that is unbelievably stressful! I’m so sorry that happened. I hope you’re not beating yourself up for taking on new responsibilities. The fault lies with the company you work for (how maddening!). I hope you are feeling well enough to get some exercise.

If not, treat yourself extra nice. In fact, treat yourself extra nice regardless. Do whatever you want this weekend. Kick back and watch some movies or read a book, have a nice dinner with your partner, etc. There’s time to figure out all that financial hassle later. You have enough on your plate just trying to get well. I hope you’re feeling better soon :hug:

Also, I don’t think any of us has a tolerance for uber crazy folks. That’s why we’ve been either staying silent or going at it. Nothing wrong with the way you approach things.

kronk - I don’t think I was here for the discussion (maybe I was?). I’ve heard of Dr. Gabor Mate and his book before, I can’t remember where. I never read the book, but I’ve read a lot of what he has to say in interviews, and I really liked it. Maybe I should get the book. Happy weekend to you, too.

So, not much new to report except I love Planet Fitness more and more every day. I went for my strength training workout today and remembered once again that they have personal trainers available four days a week. I figured that they were just around to answer a few questions here and there (because for $10 a month, come on. What do you expect?). But when I asked the guy at the front desk when they’re working, he signed me up for a full HOUR of personal training this coming Wednesday! I hope they’re certified, and not just seasonal landscapers or something, looking for winter work - ha! It seems too good to be true.

Anyway, I began my taper down tonight (in addition to going up to 300 mg). I bought one less shot than I otherwise would have drank (Oh my god, so many little bottles!). I’ll see how it goes. That’s about it. I hope you all have a great night!