Here we go again

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Morning, all! Congratulations, Dun!! That's awesome. Thanks for posting it, I really appreciate the milestones.



Other than when I was in AA, where I never got more than 30 days, I have never counted, so I don't know about the trigger factor. I hope it doesn't happen for you and you can continue the trend. I do understand your trepidation about the med you mentioned. It's tough to think about taking anything new, and that one is a heavy-duty med. I'm pleased with the effects (and lack of side effects) with Effexor (SNRI). I wasn't so sure about it, but Ed mentioned that he thought I was a lot better, whatever that means. The comment was unsolicited, so I was really struck by it. It hasn't helped my sleep issues, but I think it has helped my mood and general dysphoria/malaise.



(That was not the case when I tried mirtazapine, by the way. It has worked really well for some other people here, but I didn't do well on it. It, like most of them, has to be titrated. I was fine, and found it really remarkable, at the lower dose. But when I increased, I became more depressed. Fortunately, it was not only dose dependent, I had almost immediate relief when I stopped taking it. I actually doubled my dosage, by accident, with Effexor, without any notable repercussions. [The doc prescribed a lower dosage for the first 30 days. When he refilled the prescription, it was for the normal dosage. I didn't read the rx, so I still took two of them. Yikes!] I guess my point is something we all know but bears repeating...There are solutions. They don't have to be completely out of the box, and that it may take some time to find one that works. I hope you can get some help, and soon!)



Stuck, how are you?



Kronk, man, I have a trigger-happy (negative) reaction when it comes to Mate. It seems to me that he blames psycho-social issues for a disease...Maybe I'll pick it up again, because it obviously resonates with a lot of people. I do appreciate a holistic approach to life in general. (Not that I'm very good at actually implementing it.) Maybe I can re-read it, or make time for some of the seminars, with that in mind. Hope you're having a nice weekend.



Lis, so happy for you about the gym. I haven't embraced it with the same gusto. You really are inspiring me to find that super-invigorated place about it all, though. Thanks. I'm also excited for you about the taper! I hope you find it easy to do. But either way, I know it will help you in the long run. I was amazed at how successful you were with it the last time. I want to point out, though, that at the time, you were really hard on yourself every step of the way. Maybe you can be more gentle with yourself this time? It's a tough thing to do, and every victory should be celebrated.



The only people in my family that are not affected by the disease (in terms of drinking) are the ones who are teetotal-super-fundamentalist. I can't blame them, and don't begrudge them that aspect of their religion. What's interesting is that I think the nature of the disease is that we (in my family) are born with it. So just because they don't drink doesn't mean they don't have the disease. You know what I mean? It just manifests itself in different ways, obviously. Their kids, my cousins, seem to be remarkably well adjusted (aside from the fact that they are fundamentalist, which is...nutso.) It is interesting, the role that religion plays in our well being. And it's worth noting that a spiritual (or even religious) life doesn't have to mean fundamentalism.



I feel similarly about what is going on elsewhere on this part of the forum. It's baffling. There was a time, not long ago, when I felt it was really important to deal with those kinds of issues by pointing out what was actually true, and defending people when they are attacked. But now I find it excruciatingly difficult to become involved. I'm really thankful that Terryk is willing to follow up, and also that he found the information about people who have used different usernames to sow discord. I can't imagine how different this forum would be if it was actually moderated and those things were dealt with before they even became an issue. <sigh> Here's hoping.



Hope you guys are enjoying the weekend.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

The last week or so has just been super shitty with some unexpected tax news (you owe more money!) and having taken on some new financial responsibilities, the timing just sucks. But it isn't the end of the world, and I really need to just relax about it. But the way my mind works is I chew on it, and chew on it -- how it's unfair, how if I had known, I would have made other choices. The mistake is a big one, made by my company. And could mean thousands of dollars in back taxes. The HR dept made the error, but they are my taxes. So I'm pretty sure I'm on the hook.

I meant to respond to this earlier.

I don't know of any way, or anyone, that wouldn't chew on it and chew on it. Short of monks and the like.

We had a situation come up after we bought this (our first) house. And it was pretty horrific. (Utility construction in our back yard, taking up 1/2 the backyard, for ~2 years. The former owners knew about it. We didn't. The size of our yard doesn't matter. The construction was a HUGE issue.) In the long run, I knew that it wouldn't make much of a difference. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a major issue, and certainly part of the increase in my stress level-->depression.

It's over now, probably increased our property value, and we received a sizable settlement. So there was a substantial silver lining. But I didn't know that for two years.

Money problems always mess me up, anyway.

Bottom line? That's a doozy and it sucks, Dun. Sorry.

[kronkcarr]

Ne, it's interesting what you say about Mate's work. I've never looked at his overall view--now I will. I just identify with so many of the examples he gives of how addicts think, feel and the things they say.

I finally listened to everyone's music. tk, it's been years since I've heard Iron Maiden!
Reggie, I like Lambchop. For some reason the first Give It isn't legal for viewing in the states. I did like the live version. I will probably use The Herd's The King is Dead for when I hit a tough spot running. 2020 was a great video--so much crap the US has done. Ne, Know Love would have been my anthem when I was getting myself together.

tk, Brutal Gore was too much!

I'll get on my computer soon and list a few songs I use. Thanks again everyone.

[Lostinspace]

I really hate to be a jerk in saying this, but man, I’m so jealous of people that found medical answers to depression. I don’t struggle with it the way that I used to (thank all that is wonderful in the universe!), but when I did, nothing worked. I mean, out of the probably dozen options I tried, Every. Single. One. of them made things much worse. Either my depression worsened (at one time to the point that I actually tried to kill myself), or I had a dramatic increase in the number of panic attacks I experienced (which is sadly, something that will probably always be a part of my life - I’ve tried literally everything - and I mean every conceivable therapy, lifestyle change, etc., besides meds. The only thing that has ever worked is taking the occasional Xanax as needed, dissolved under the tongue). Why am I such a freak?!

I’m really sorry, I don’t mean to detract from the conversation, but every time I hear antidepressants discussed, it burns me. They’ve done nothing but make me even crazier than I already was. It sucks. Then again, I bet there are tons of people who wish their bac experience was as smooth as mine. I guess we all react differently to different drugs. OK, I’m letting it go now. Please forgive my rant.

Ne - I really hope you find your inspiration at the gym, too. I think for me it’s a product of getting my license at the same time and viewing it as gym = freedom. It’s freedom to move around both physically, and by car! I can imagine it’s probably tough in your circumstances, trying to fit in the gym with school and all that jazz. Is there anything in your daily life that you currently can’t do, and need to ask for help with, that you want to? I know for me (and this is BY FAR not the only motivation, so forgive me if I’m oversimplifying things) that there are certain things I can’t do at work.

We have 20 liter carboys of deionized water (which weigh at least 40, if not more, pounds) that I always refill at the water purifier in another lab. I used to have a lot of trouble just lifting them from the counter where the water purifier is, to the cart where I wheel them back to my lab (don’t judge me, I have shoulder instability problems, I can’t lift very much). Nowadays (already!!), I can hold them in the air for many seconds before putting them back on the cart. It won’t be long before I’M the one who hoists them up onto the overhead shelf where we sit them in our lab. I’ve always relied on the men in my lab to do it for me. I’m getting to a point where I very well might be able to do it myself, even with my bum shoulder. Maybe that sounds insanely stupid, but it motivates me. I can literally see my strength increase day by day. I hope you can find something yourself to be motivated by. Being stronger makes daily life SO much easier!

And I hear you about the fundamentalism, and it being an extension of the disease. It’s almost like all the energy that would be directed towards booze, just goes toward god-fearing stuff. My family, also, is full of well-adjusted (outside of their religious craziness), successful people. I’m kinda the black sheep. I hate it But, much to my parents’ credit, I’m still loved and accepted as a member of the family, even though I don’t practice their religion. It seems their parental instincts are stronger than the fact that I don’t share their religion. And even though my alcohol problems were known early on, my parents still love me As much as we have our differences, I love my parents for ignoring the crap about me being a Satan’s child and all that.

Hi kronk! I hope you’re having a great weekend!


Anyway, I did not stick to my taper today, and went back to my usual amount. I’m not gonna beat myself up, though. I still have plenty of time until February 1st to get it right, so I’ll just try again tomorrow. I hope you all have a great night!

EDIT: I’m so sorry for the first two paragraphs. I’m still an overly excitable FOOL!. I would delete that crap if it weren’t for the fact that a) I’m sure many people have already read it; deleting it would do nothing and b) I already referenced this in a PM to someone, in my apologies for my feelings about antidepressants. I hope you all don’t think less of me. I'm very sorry!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Thanks for the edit, Lis. It's funny, but I suddenly thought, "Well, the AD isn't working that well. Maybe it's all in my head? Maybe I should just stop now before I am entrenched!" oy vey. And frankly, I need all the help I can get. I just keep coming back to the fact that these drugs work for a whole lot of people. They aren't, as it's been suggested here repeatedly for years, just a figment of the pharmaceutical bottom line. And while they may not be perfect, there are a lot of us that need additional help staying healthy and well. I'm not really just talking about me, here either.

And here's another thought: I don't know what can work when we're actively drinking against our will. It's not the old saw that alcohol is a depressant (it's not, in the way we think about it). It's that everything sucks so much, and the brain chemistry is so messed up, I don't know what could have pierced that fog. At least in my case.

Time will tell, of course. And while I'm better, I still have a really hard time leaving the house on most days when I don't have to, and have an even harder time doing anything when I'm here. <sigh> Bootstraps and all that is where I'm at. <heavier sigh>

Rough night's sleep last night. Can you tell? haha

I woke up and started to really worry about Stuck. You out there? How's things?

The gym is liberating, and I'm so so so glad for you that it's tied up with this period of your life. (All the good things lead to better good things which compounds exponentially. Really. Look for it! )

To answer your question about UVA: It's totally impractical. The classes are once a week on campus for 20 months. It's 3+ hours away. It's not full time, so there are financial implications. If it was full time, like if I got a second degree, I'd have to live there. Ed's job is good and lucrative. He can't move. There's a decent program here that is mostly online, the campus is 10 minutes from my house, and it's cheaper and easier. But it's...not UVA. So, while the spoiled part of me is like fuck it! I want to go so I'm going! The practical part of me is wondering if that's such a good idea. Never-the-less, I'm pretty good at making impractical things work out for everyone involved. We'll see. My dad has always maintained that you can't make a decision until you have all the information. And if you can't make the decision, then you don't have all the information. He's wise. Very annoying, but wise.

There's a real, legitimate, motivation to go there. It is a world class leader in medicine, I'd get an incredible education, and have the opportunity to learn from and maybe work with some really incredible minds. The program is so competitive that there is no way I'd be able to get in under normal circumstances. However, there is a reciprocal agreement with my community college and Virginia public universities that we are automatically eligible if the basic qualifications are met. Fortunately, these qualifications do not include exhibiting the qualities of a leader, and etc. which is something the general public must do during the application process. So it's not just the teachers whose minds are interesting. Perhaps some of the students are interesting, too. (Which is not at all the case in the program I'm in. I mean, they might have interesting minds, but their interests and my interests are very different. It's been a bummer, actually.)

Anyway. Some good things are going on right now: Ed started his first (ever) college class last week. I'm very excited for him. He may actually pursue a degree! Which would increase his potential immeasurably. (It might also further tie us to this area, but I'm not thinking about that yet.) My dog is crazy adorable, and much less annoying. She still doesn't know basic commands. She still loves to find and chew on my stuff. (Just mine, not his.) But she wakes us up by jumping into bed for a cuddle. We call it family time. After much furniture arrangement and rearrangement and re-rearrangement, I think I am starting to like the way the house looks. And I've been experimenting with recipes from a cookbook that was my Italian grandmother's favorite. (Not the one that just died last year. This is the one that lived all over the world, was very cosmopolitan, and died when I was 9.) It's very fun to see her handwriting in the book. My mom just gave it to me.

And speaking of my mom, my parents just got back from an 8 day catamaran trip in some islands with 6 of their best friends. Here's hoping that we all have the time, money and inclination to live as fully as they do.

Cheers to that!

[Lostinspace]

Wow, Ne. I had no idea that there was ever a consensus on this forum that antidepressants are a crock. I certainly don’t believe that. I’ve known quite a few people over the years whose lives turned around greatly after finding the right one. It just never worked out that way for me.

And thanks for being nice about it. I had a full-on shame attack last night while I was sitting on the couch and suddenly remembered both what I had posted about, as well as the wishy-washy, dumb-sounding PM that I had sent to someone. I hate shame attacks. They’re as bad as panic attacks. Only instead of suddenly being gripped by terror and hyperventilating, I feel an electric jolt of shame through my body, followed by shuddering/shaking and feeling as though I’m throwing up out of every pore in my body.

Anyway, as far as UVA goes, that sucks that it’s so far away. However, if it turns out you’re accepted, a long trip once a week might well be worth it to have access to that kind of education, as well as similarly minded peers. As you said, you don’t have all the information yet. And that’s excellent that Ed’s starting back in school, too Besides improving his own potential, it’s always nice to have a partner who is in a similar situation in life to what you are. It gives you more shared experiences together, both to be happy about, and to commiserate over.

I’m glad the puppy is getting past the “terrible twos,” so to speak, and that your home is coming together in the way that you like. And the cookbook sounds awesome. I always love seeing old things that my grandparents (or even older generations) have written in. It’s really cool to see a part of your family history like that, and all the better if it’s something you can actually use, like a cookbook.

And Stuck - it would be very nice to hear from you. Just a quick hello if you’re really busy, to let us know you’re doing alright.

Anyway, not much out of me tonight. I’m a little in shock right now. I just got a call from a woman who was a really good friend of mine in my 20s, but I lost contact with. She got my number through contacting my mom through Facebook (I don’t do Facebook myself). Anyway, she has stage 4 colon cancer. I’m completely blown away by it all. She’s so young, it makes me sick with sadness. And I hope to god that talking to me was helpful, and not hurtful.

All I could think was to infuse her with stories of my mom overcoming cancer, against all odds. And when she talked about all the things she still wants to do, I told her she could, she just needs to get well first. I hope I didn’t say the wrong thing. Some people are resigned to death, but it sounded like she took comfort in my words. And I know from personal experience (my mom) that some people who are given a death sentence do live on, and live healthy and happy lives thereafter. I want her to join those people. At least I now have her number and we can keep in touch.

Sorry to be a downer. Things are otherwise OK. I stuck to my taper tonight. And now I’m gonna go join my husband and try to forget how awful life can be. I hope you all have a great night!

[StuckinLA]

Hey everyone. Stupid phone. I either didn't respond to a PM or I responded 4 times. If only there were a way to know! (Sent Items folder...) EDIT: Nope, their PM inbox is full.

Anyway I figure I've been MIA long enough that people would start to think I'm dead. I'm not. Busy, and stressed, and overwhelmed, and working. Stringing some AF days together here and there, mostly <4 but on an ok streak at the moment. Lots of anxiety when I go out anywhere, but I'm managing. We have a friend in town over the weekend until tomorrow. It was her birthday yesterday, which is why she came out to visit. The girl has been entertaining her mostly, during the day, so I've been able to stay at home and write, but man I'm still just SO OVER having people here. It's been almost nonstop since before Xmas: home, then a friend here, then Vancouver, now another friend here. I just want to f**king relax a little.

But of course the new semester started, and my dissertation is due, etc. anyway, that's my update. Haven't read back too closely but it sounds like y'all are having a great conversation here. And it sounds like everybody is doing pretty well. Hugs all around.

[Lostinspace]

Hey Stuck! Good to hear from you. I’m sorry life is so stressful right now. Hopefully after your current visitor, you’ll get a little time to yourself. All that socializing can be really draining. I can’t imagine! I’ve never done quite as much as you. But having to deal with all that while you’re beginning a new semester probably makes it extra wearing on the nerves. I’m glad to hear you’ve been stringing together some AF days here and there, despite the stress. Hang in there. You’ll get a break soon :hug:

[Lostinspace]

I FINALLY had a chance to listen to all that music. I thought I could that night, but I’ve had a series of distractions (as well as simply forgetting other nights) since then. Anyway, tk, your music really brings me back. Outside of Iron Maiden, I’m not familiar with the other groups, but whenever they’re from, it sounds a lot like the stuff I sporadically screamed to in high school. Oh, and lol about “Brutal Gore.” Although, I actually have an old time song that I like cause it’s kinda cute. I found out about it from “The Clockwork Orange” soundtrack (don’t judge me) and it’s called “I wanna marry a lighthouse keeper,” or something like that. I have it on my iPod because I really do love it. Ooh, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKhso6odZpI. Don’t make fun of me.

Reggie, I really like your taste. I never heard of either group before, but I like them both, despite their very different musical styles - although I couldn’t view the first Lambchop video :/

Anyway, I feel stupid posting. No one else is posting and I feel like an idiot posting right after myself. My taper, outside of a couple days here and there, is so far an utter failure. I have no pressing need, the way I did the first time around. All is well in my world. My marriage is stable. My husband is actually thrilled with me. My job is stable. No one is questioning my conduct (or my odor - oh my god, that’s almost worse. Soooo embarrassing! I once got fired because I reeked of booze, not because of how I acted or performed my job. That is the definition of embarrassing. How do they have such sensitive noses? And why are they standing so close to me? Ugh!!!!). I’m driving, despite the intoxalock, with no problem, because I only drink at night now.

I’m starting to wonder if this is as good as it gets for me. I’ve made tremendous gains. Things are good, things are stable. I still get a good buzz going every night, but does that really make me so different from so many other people (aside from the amount it takes to get a good buzz going)? I’m honestly scared of my quit date.

As much as my cravings are lowered, I don’t think I can do without at this point. I will try my best. I know I’ve done days here and there without it, but it still scares the crap out of me. And I’m willing to go a *little* higher in bac dose, but not much. If it turns out I’m one of those people who needs 450 mg, or some such nonsense, then I’m out. I’m not willing to do that. Maybe I should just accept that this is as good as it gets.

Anyway, I hope you all have a good night!

[Lostinspace]

Yeah, it's me again. Just want to share a little music inspiration of my own. I haven't been into music in a veeeeery long time. But here's a song that meant a lot to me when I got out of my first rehab about 12 twelve years ago (yeah, it's dated): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYwndYSA6-U

I hope it means something to someone.

[kronkcarr]

Hey Lis,

I'm here. I'm just overworked and tired of driving my son here, there and back here.

Lis, I don't know how much baclofen you're taking now so I'm not sure how much you need to be thinking of 450 mgs. I guess the moving forward with bac and either stopping drinking or not drinking daily depends on how content you are with yourself and relationships and goals.

Here's one of the songs I love when I'm cranking the last bit of a run (although I've been injured and haven't cranked a workout in awhile):

http://youtu.be/Eajk2uDWaP0

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I'll update about me in a sec.

I??m starting to wonder if this is as good as it gets for me. ...I still get a good buzz going every night, but does that really make me so different from so many other people (aside from the amount it takes to get a good buzz going)? I??m honestly scared of my quit date.

Yes. Sadly it does make you different from almost everyone else. Which isn't the reason that you should care about not drinking against your will. The reason you should care about not drinking against your will is because you don't want to be needing alcohol for everything to be copacetic. You, YOU, want to decide. Am I right?



I'm not a fan of quit dates, mostly because they always made me feel like a failure. I had already pointed out that perhaps picking a hard and fast date might not be the most productive thing at this point. Maybe the most productive thing at this point is just to keep doing what you're doing. Because of this:

All is well in my world. My marriage is stable. My husband is actually thrilled with me. My job is stable.

When was the last time, if ever, that you were able to say that? Why don't you sit back and enjoy it? The rest, as they say, will come.



I'm not suggesting that you should ignore trying to taper, or be unconscious of how much and when and why you drink. Those things are very important. Looking at, and remembering why you don't want to drink is even more important. And here's one really good reason: it never gets better. If you continued to drink what you're drinking now, you'll end up drinking more or in some other way the booze will wreak havoc in your life. Or both. That's a guarantee.



You're in a really good place and I'm really happy for you. I remember distinctly what it was like, right before I got free. You're right there. And things get brighter and better, but it is never easy.



It doesn't just take milligrams, remember. It takes time, too. Keep your eyes on the goal.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I'm in a really bad place. I don't think I want to write about it. But I'm horribly depressed and really not functioning. I can't even bother to figure out a way to help myself, or do the things I know would help me with this. I haven't done any school work, and I'm already very behind. I haven't left the house in several days.

This is not atypical behavior. It's reminiscent of every other time in my life that I've worked really hard to get to a particular goal, and then given up right before the goal happens. The thing is, even though I know that is what's happening, I can't do anything about it. And I mean nothing. I can't open a textbook. I've missed two assignments this week for which I will get zeroes. And the grading scale is such that missing any points for anything could mean failure. (That's not even me being pessimistic. That's just how this program is. Anything less than 80% is failure, and there isn't any wiggle room because there are usually only about 120 points. Anyway...)

It's bad. Not sure how I'm going to pull this off.

[terryk]

No good, Ne, no good. Take a hot shower. And go for a run, even if it's only around the block. Get some sun, even if it's cold out.... I know that nothing is worse than hearing these things from someone else when you feel the way you do right now, but those are the things that are going to help make you feel better. Then go talk to your instructors/professors, explain your situation and see if there is any way to can do a make-up or an extra credit project - I know from experience that that can go along way to put you back on track, especially with the professor. It's never as bad as it seems from the dark place that you're in, and I only know this because of the special people in my life that keep pushing, pulling, and talking me out of all the dead-end scenarios that continually I work my self into. It's going to be alright, you *can* do this, and the first step is the hardest part.

-tk

[dundrinkn]

Ne, listen to Terry! Go talk to your instructors. Get out of the house. Just move!

Of course, I too am so fuckin' depressed I can hardly move. I think the tax thing is all worked out and I won't have to pay back taxes. But the whole episode tanked me. I guess it was that. I don't know. But I am struggling to put one foot in front of the other. My anxiety is off the charts whenever I am not sleeping, and I read Lis's comments about drinking and was about ready to go buy some beer. But I won't. Not today.

But Lis, if you are dreading your stop date, remove it. Just monitor your drinking and try and taper, and then maybe try and go to every other day. Then see about 2 days AF for every day you drink. Play around with it, but don't set yourself up. Enjoy that everything is great, and then just play around with scheduling and controlling your inebriating time.

OK. I am going to meet a friend for coffee. I would rather chew my arm off. Which reminds me -- Kronk, I so relate to your feeling compassion for furry creatures, but not people. That is so me!

And when I am in this awful fucking space, it really seems that the world is going to end any day. Then I start thinking about being dead, and what that would be like, and if that's preferable to living through the world coming to an end. No worries. Not suicidal. Just fuckin' crazy.