Here we go again

[Lostinspace]

Awww. Thanks, guys

[StuckinLA]

Happy birthday, Lis! Glad you had such a nice day with your husband.

Nothing new, really, but thought I'd drop in and say hi. Quitting smoking didn't work at all last week, and trying to continue rolling my own is sketchy at best. Oh well. Still AF since last Thursday but I did buy a fifth and left it, unopened, in the trunk of the car - not sure why I did that. Anyway, have a good one everybody.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Happy belated birthday, Lis!

And hiya to everyone else.

[Lostinspace]

Thanks, Stuck. And keep it up with making your own cigarettes. It really helped me cut back a lot. I don’t know if it helps you any to think in terms of money or not, but that’s what got me to make the switch. I don’t live in a southern, tobacco-producing state, so I get taxed to holy hell, and cigarettes are about $10 a pack where I live. I imagine they’re somewhat similar where you live, maybe even more. I did the math at one point and figured out that it only cost me 6 cents for each cigarette I made - in other words, it was $1.20 a pack! It’s worth it to make your own for that reason alone. Anyway, my point is don’t give up just because it’s a hard switch to make in the beginning. Smallish changes here and there will lead to you being completely tobacco-free in the future

Thanks, Ne. It’s good to see you I hope everything’s still going well in your world.

So, I still haven’t decided whether or not I want to go up further on bac. I’m still at 275 mg. I never did go up to 300 mg because, quite frankly, I forgot to bring the extra doses along with me for that family reunion trip a few weekends ago, and by the time I got back I was feeling pretty good. But even at three and half weeks out, I’m still having good days and bad days. Like today, I have absolutely no desire to drink and honestly believe that I’m better off without it. Yesterday was a real struggle, though, pretty much all evening long. If I had any inkling of hope that the indifference that other baclofen users have experienced is also possible for me, then I would start titrating up in a heartbeat. My fear is that, for whatever reason, bac just doesn’t work that way with me. I’ll end up going up and up and up, only to end up feeling the exact same as I do now.

Which is pretty damn good, actually. I shouldn’t even complain. When I think back to my attempts to quit drinking before I started on baclofen compared to my minor struggles now, it’s like comparing a category 5 hurricane to sporadic thunderstorms. The difference is unbelievable. I just don’t like that I’m still struggling at all - and not because I’m some big baby that can’t handle feeling tension here and there. It’s because it only takes one bad decision to ruin the progress I’m making in repairing my marriage, and to show my husband that he’s right - I’ll never change so he’d better leave. Hopefully the fact that I’m so afraid of that happening will be enough to smack any stupid out of my head if I start entertaining the thought of drinking a little too seriously. Or maybe I should go up on bac anyway just to see what happens. I really don’t know. I mean really, if I weren’t on bac, I’d say that I was doing spectacularly and could never hope for better. But the fact that I am on bac means that I keep thinking I should be able to find even greater peace from this monster of an addiction.

Anyway, sorry for the long ramble. I hope you’re all having a good one out there!

[Lostinspace]

Hello all. I just wanted to say thank you to the person who sent me a friendly little PM yesterday. I would've responded personally, but your mailbox is full :P Anyway, other than that, all is well. Still not drinking, and feeling pretty good overall. I hope everyone's having a good one out there!

[StuckinLA]

Hi everybody. Glad to hear you're doing so well, Lis. Hope everyone else is also doing equally well.

Things are bumpy over here, and I've been struggling a bit this week. Hanging in there though, and hopeful that I'll get myself straightened out soon. I teach my last class on Saturday, and then it's official: I'm unemployed. Still waiting to hear back from a few applications, and then I guess I'll try Starbucks or whatever.

And I just remembered one of the girl's friends will be in town staying with us this weekend. Like, just remembered. And she gets in tonight. Ugh. Yeah, gotta straighten out pretty quick.

[Molly78]

Hi LIS.

I just read your post of 11th August & it really resonated with me - you seem to be in a similar place to me. I'm on 100-120mg bac, doing incredibly well compared to where I was pre-bac, yet still feeling I haven't "cracked" it - this addiction thing. having days when I feel I need a drink, especially after work. Thinking I shouldn't feel like that.

And yet.....isn't this what bac promised us? That we could have a drink when we felt like it without going down the slippery slope? Isn't this how "normal" people feel? Some days having no desire to drink, other days thinking "I could just fancy a glass of wine. Or two." I suppose the problem is,not knowing how "normal" people think about alcohol. From listening to others' conversations, it seems they often do want a drink, just not all the time, & is "want" the same as "need"?

Initially I aimed to reach total indifference. Now I wonder if that's unrealistic, if at that point I would be just too zoned out - indifferent to more than alcohol.

At the moment, my intake is roughly within government guidelines - 14 units a week for women. Should I pat myself on the back & say "Well done" rather than chasing this vague goal we are calling "indifference"? I no longer embarrass myself socially or online. I no longer drive drunk. I don't drink during the day. At social events I notice other people seem pissed compared to me (THAT never happened before!). I don't have a partner to worry about any more - I can't say alcohol wasn't involved in the breakdown of my marriage 10 years ago, but forensic examination of that event suggests problems on both sides, & the thought of us still being together & both being sober 100% of the time just boggles the mind. Alcohol was a part of our marriage for good or ill, the relationship without it would have been different from the start. Maybe it's your relationship with your husband that alcohol interferes with, & as this is ongoing the dynamic is not just ME+ALCOHOL, as it is for me. So I guess things are more complicated for you, especially if your husband expects zero alcohol intake on your part? (Sorry, I have been following this thread,but would have to go all the way back through it again to piece together your relationship).

Well this is a long post for me. I am generally a lurker, haven't always found responses are positive or sympathetic, like most online forums this one is dominated by some strong personalities who have a lot to say & think they know everything, but I exclude you & Stuck from that category & enjoy following your progress.

Kind regards,

Molly.

[Lostinspace]

You can do it, Stuck. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that these last few months you’ve been able to put together longer AF stretches than at any time since I’ve known you. We all arrive at where we want to be by taking different paths. Maybe yours is just “practice makes perfect.” As far as the job hunt goes, have you considered going through a temp agency until you land something in your field? It’ll bring in a steady paycheck, and that way you can walk away pretty guilt-free since they were never intending on keeping you long-term in the first place. Anyway, I hope you’re able to have some fun this weekend, even though your home won’t be your own. Hang in there :hug:

Thanks, Molly. I guess you’re right. True indifference is not necessarily normal per se. Most people do have occasions when they feel they could use a drink. I just never quite made it to that wanting to have only a couple stage. For me, after baclofen took the bulk of my cravings away and afforded me some self-control, it was more like I felt the need to down several shots rapid fire, but then once I got my buzz on, I was fine with stopping and didn’t need to try to maintain the buzz (the vast majority of the time anyway). That’s an interesting thought, though, that indifference might include more than just being indifferent to alcohol. I never considered that before. Maybe it really is better to go through the roller coaster ride of craving some times - so long as I don’t give in! Because yes, my husband does expect ZERO alcohol on my part, so I need to keep my mouth away from the bottle if I want him to stay with me. But it’s worth it. Honestly, I can’t see me ever enjoying just a glass or two of wine, or a couple of beers, anyway. Maybe I could learn to enjoy just the taste and savor it with practice, but for now, in the absence of being able to get buzzed, I see no point in drinking at all. Anyway, thanks for posting. It’s always nice to see you come out of the shadows

And Happy Friday everyone! Although not so much for me. I have to work both tomorrow AND Sunday Such is life.

[kronkcarr]

Lis, I'm happy to hear you doing well. Molly, you ask great questions. Stuck, I hope your weekend went well.

I don't have much to say. I am ok. I'm injured from running and--the good news is I'm taking medical steps to fix it fast (as opposed to when I'd just drink). My son and I went to an ultra run this weekend and met some new folks, some of whom may become friends in time.

I'd decided to leave MWO because of recent posts on another thread here. I so strongly hate being misrepresented. So I'll take up residence on your thread Lis. I've gotten attached to the folks here.

[StuckinLA]

Hey Kronk! Glad to see you and to hear you'll be with us for a while rather than leaving. No judgyness either way, I know how frustrating things round here can be, and that's why this is the only thread I even read anymore (except topa once in a while).

And hi Molly and Lis and everyone else. Things are all right. It's late here, we are all up drinking and talking. I'm happy to build up a slow buzz over the course of an evening, at least historically. Shots in quick succession would put me down for the count. Just saying that to note how it's funny the ways we are all different, and then each of us different at various points of time. OK, that was trying to be a little too deep, maybe I am pretty buzzed.

Just wanted to say hello. I've got work stuff the next couple days so might not be around much. Hugs to all.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

hmmmm.



I'm not going to post about the other stuff, because I would then just get burned out and delete. Again. Kronk, I feel your pain and I swear to all that matters it makes me crazy, but dammit, don't stop posting.



Fred-son, I swear I thought your post on the other thread was serious and my ears were flaming and my blood pressure was dangerous. Then I got a grip. So ha. hahahaha. But dammit, you ought to put a little note at the bottom or something, because if I didn't know better, I would've lost it.



I think I can share some thoughts about my experience with indifference vs. ? (I'm not sure what the opposite is. Help me out, Stuck.) Having recently-ish gone from a place of relatively contented indifference to slavery, again...Indifference has meant different things at different times, all of them revolve around the fact that I just didn't care about booze.



Indifference:

• Now I wake up and it isn't long before I think about booze. Before, I rarely thought about it.
  
• Now I keep track of how much alcohol we have in the house. Before, I knew we had some good wine for company, and some good wine to keep, and maybe some other stuff. Maybe. Usually much more than I imagined, since we buy new stuff whenever we entertain.
  
• We used to have a liquor cabinet. For the first time ever. It's dry, now.
  
• Then I made a decision not to drink, and I barely freaked out. Now? ha. I make a decision not to drink and I still drink.
  
• At a bar/dinner/wedding/funeral, not drinking, don't care.
  
• At a bar/dinner/wedding/funeral, forget to finish glass of wine.
  
• 
  
• 
  

I left the last two blank, because I have run out of steam. There's more, for sure. And I don't really think I got to the crux of it. So maybe someone else will fill in with their personal experiences.



PS. I know I'm one of those personalities on here. Love me or hate me, it can't be denied. I'm actually bummed about that. But I am what I am. I'm trying to tone it down in my 3D life, at least. ha. Maybe someday I'll be zen? Or not.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I left the last two blank, because I have run out of steam. There's more, for sure. And I don't really think I got to the crux of it. So maybe someone else will fill in with their personal experiences.

I left two asterisks, but they didn't show up. Just so you don't think I'm nuts. ha.

[StuckinLA]

Opposite of indifference. What we all fear is that the opposite is passion. If we are indifferent it means we are passionless. That does not have to be true.

I've always wanted a liquor cabinet, or a bar set up on a little stand at the edge of the living room. You know, one of those classy kind of things where there are lots of shiny bottles and a cocktail shaker and maybe a bucket of ice. That's what middle age looks like to me.

Never been able to have that. Because it doesn't matter what the bottles are - I wake up and drink whatever is there. Sweet vermouth? Well, if that's what is left then all right I'll drink that.

Indifference means that you can keep a bottle of sweet vermouth around that you only use once in a while to make drinks.

[Lostinspace]

kronk - I’m really glad you decided to stay. Just chill with us. You know we don’t bite

Fred - Thanks for adding some levity around these parts.

Ne - So great to see you around! I’m sorry to hear you’re still not back to indifference. You’ll get there eventually. Are you still going up on bac? I hope the rest of life is still treating you well since the last time you posted. And I’m not sure what you mean by “one of those personalities,” but I love ya.

Stuck - Yeah, I guess the opposite of indifference doesn’t have to be living a passionless life because I’m not even indifferent to alcohol and I’m still living a passionless life - ha! (Seriously, the longer I stay sober, the more I’m realizing just how boring my life is. I need to change that, and I am, but it’s baby steps). And I could never be one of those people with a fancy liquor cabinet either. I’ve always been mystified by people who come home, surrounded by multiple bottles, and yet don’t touch any of it . . . or have just a little. What?! Crazy stuff.

Not much else to say. I’ve been bogged down with work the last few days and I just want a damn day off! Anyway, I hope everyone’s having a good one out there.

[kronkcarr]

I have felt like I'm indifferent to much. Initially I liked being at home and not being so social. Now I'm not so sure. I have had low level nausea since I started bac so I'm indifferent to food.

I think, for me, there was indifference. When I started baclofen I slowed way down and enjoyed sitting and looking and being. Somewhere along the way stress and life came back in and it was more of a choice to drink or not. Maybe it wouldn't be that way if my maintenance dose was higher? I'd love to hear from others with more time on baclofen.

Molly, I understand what you say about not being drunk and not making an ass of yourself. That was the reason I wanted/needed to quit getting numb/drunk.

Funny, I've never really kept alcohol in my home. I always liked when people chose wine from their wine rack or could mix many drinks--of course I did.

Thanks to all of you for your support. I appreciate it much. Fred, your humor is much appreciated and Ne, thank you. Shoutout to Steveo and MJM--I missed saying hey in my last post.