Here we go again

[dundrinkn]

Dang it. You made me look!! I had been just kinda cruising along, checking in on this thread on occasion. Maybe looking at a few others every few weeks. But I have to say that the levity brought to the situation by Fred-son was so appreciated and spot on. Ha!

Ne, I'm not sure what your age is, but I would respectfully inquire whether changing hormone levels could be part of your shift in indifference. I say this because I had my levels tested and am doing some BHRT of progesterone, estrodial and testosterone. Wow. Do I feel different. I have lowered my dosages on everything (gabaP, Baclofen, and alcohol). I have no anxiety. I didn't realize how pissed off I was all the time, I am now calm. It is really kinda of strange experience I am having because I feel really, really good. Just a thought. I can now trace the escalation of my drinking and increase in my anxiety to probably about the time my hormone levels also went in the shitter.

Glad to see you all posting again.

[Stevo]

It is really nice to see everyone posting again.

I needed to jump in on this one too,the question posed is such an interesting one.
I recently have found myself in a place of what I can only assume is complete indifference(I loved how Stuck said that passion was the opposite).6 months ago I was aware that I was indifferent to most things in my life but due to being hypersensitive to everything for most of my life I quite enjoyed it,it was a breath of fresh air(what a relief).
Now I don't seem to be able to get motivated to do anything,don't get me wrong I get done what needs to be done but I see it all as a chore and there is definitely no passion driving it.
I used to be passionate about my boards and would bounce out of bed each morning keen to change the molds and get to work on the newly pressed veneers,now I only do it because I feel I have to.Like I am somewhat obligated to keep the machine running.
I used to be passionate about the plight of the still suffering alcoholic,now I feel so removed from this that I don't want to go anywhere near the topic.I feel as if I no longer have a connection to the issues facing people with AUD(this is part of the reason that I don't post very much).
I sometimes feel that I should stop checking in on MWO because it is the last connection to what I used to feel about AL and as I stated before I am not there anymore(thanks to bac) and find myself questioning why I would continue to keep such a connection?
I think that the answer to that is that I have no support really and even though I am feeling the way that I do,I still need to be hooked into similar minded folk such as yourselves.Not to mention that I have become attached to most of y'all.

These days it is not a comfortable indifference for me and I am not basking in my newly found freedom from anxiety in fact it is the opposite.Even though I am indifferent to AL and can take it or leave and I do keep it in my house with no issues(this I am grateful for)I have become anxious again and it is creating depression as well.This scares me a little.

I hope that this makes sense...Cheers Stevo.

[Molly78]

Some of the comments above suggest that indifference feels comfortable at first, then it starts to feel like lack of motivation (as per Stevo today, "I only do it because I have to", seeing things you used to enjoy as a chore) then it actually begins a slide into what might almost be depression.

There has to be some degree of anxiety, maybe, to give an "edge" to life? So complete indifference to alcohol, like complete indifference to any of life's little treats, might be a step too far?

Just trying out some thoughts on you here, hence the question marks!

[Lostinspace]

kronk - I know what you mean about slowing down and enjoying things at first. I went through a couple months of that in the beginning of titrating up when my nondrinking days far outnumbered the days I drank. I thought I was beginning to be indifferent - until it stopped working and I had to keep going up. Anyway, it’s a nice feeling when you’re slowing down and noticing the world around you for the first time in a long time.

dun - Good to see you!

Stevo - I know EXACTLY what you mean. I recently started a job that is everything I could have hoped for, with never having finished graduate school and all. It is a lot better than my last job, but I have no passion for it and it still feels like it’s a chore. It really sucks. Then again, that’s how I felt in graduate school - ha!

Molly - I think you’re right that there has to be some kind of anxiety in life to give it an edge. But baclofen doesn’t take away all your anxiety. Maybe it does for some people, but I still have plenty on a daily basis. I don’t know what to think about the indifference to life in general being due to bac or not. I think it could be for some people. We’re all affected by medication very differently, and I’ve been on some medications in the past that made me feel like a complete zombie. But I think for me this is kinda my baseline when I’m not drinking. Whenever I tried to quit drinking pre-baclofen, I would feel nothing but a mixture of cravings, anxiety, and deep boredom and indifference to life. It sucks. I’m not sure how to get back my interest in things.

[StuckinLA]

Hi everyone. It's nice to see such a spirited and in-depth conversation going on. One way or another, I'm sure we will figure it all out.

So as for me, I have not straightened myself out yet. I meant to, I meant to clean up and stop drinking today. But I didn't. Instead, I've drank all day and not eaten at all, and I'm at the bar now and I've already picked up a bottle for later. Whatever goodwill I've established with the girl is surely blown - she wants to 'hang out' after work tonight but I have no idea what that means. Last night she just gave me space, which was great, and even though I was drunk we still had an OK night. Today, being drunk yet another day, might be pushing things a little far.

I guess anxiety is probably behind all of this. Part of me is freaking out and thinking I have to clean up right now or all will go to hell, and another (large) part of me is thinking fuck it. Just drink all day every day and whatever. I used to be a really great, relatively high-functioning alcoholic so why not get back to that...

Well, anyway whatever. My ex texted me the other day - I only hear from her when there is tragedy, and this was no exception. Her cousin passed away - 22 years old - and he has the same first name as me so when she first heard she thought it was me that had died. Then so she ended up spending the whole day crying and grieving and at the same time being really relieved that it wasn't me. And then feeling guilty about feeling relieved.

Guess there are some unresolved feelings there.

[Spiritfree]

Hi everyone. It's nice to see such a spirited and in-depth conversation going on. One way or another, I'm sure we will figure it all out.

So as for me, I have not straightened myself out yet. I meant to, I meant to clean up and stop drinking today. But I didn't. Instead, I've drank all day and not eaten at all, and I'm at the bar now and I've already picked up a bottle for later. Whatever goodwill I've established with the girl is surely blown - she wants to 'hang out' after work tonight but I have no idea what that means. Last night she just gave me space, which was great, and even though I was drunk we still had an OK night. Today, being drunk yet another day, might be pushing things a little far.

I guess anxiety is probably behind all of this. Part of me is freaking out and thinking I have to clean up right now or all will go to hell, and another (large) part of me is thinking fuck it. Just drink all day every day and whatever. I used to be a really great, relatively high-functioning alcoholic so why not get back to that...

Well, anyway whatever. My ex texted me the other day - I only hear from her when there is tragedy, and this was no exception. Her cousin passed away - 22 years old - and he has the same first name as me so when she first heard she thought it was me that had died. Then so she ended up spending the whole day crying and grieving and at the same time being really relieved that it wasn't me. And then feeling guilty about feeling relieved.

Guess there are some unresolved feelings there.

Just dang stuck. I hate to read and think that you are suffering from the beast. Stuck, of all the things that you said, please don't give in and say f-it -just drink all day -every day. I know and hope perhaps that this is just the alcohol talking right now, but if it talks that way to you often enough, it will eventually win -or at least in my case, that is what happened. Wow, has/was this been a journey back from hell -drinking sun up to sun down (or pass out(s)).

Just damn Stuck, can you take 90 and exit stage left -get some rest and renewal? You already know this Stuck, but it now all has to be about you now and changing course, or none of it is going to matter anyway.

--sf--

(I truly wish you some kind of peace right now)

[StuckinLA]

The advantages that I have are definitely contributing to my problems. Or I should say I am exploiting those advantages - the girl, no set schedule and a summer job that provided way too much free time, an emotionally and financially supportive family, etc.

And yes, the multi-day benders are ridiculous and not good. Not good at all. And I'm not sure quite how to get out of the cycle. I mean, I hit my limit for all day drinking and I am ready to abstain today. Maybe a week, or whatever but I guess I probably need a longer term plan than that. Is that even how one goes about it? Or is it just "I am not going to drink today"? Either way I'm not, today. I haven't been keeping up with water intake the past couple days, which is great for the California drought but not great for my kidneys, and I haven't eaten much the last few days either. So today I am drinking water, and I'm going to eat something small pretty soon, and I'm going to stay in bed most of the day probably and then just slowly dust myself off and get back on track.

[Lostinspace]

Stuck - I’m glad to hear you’re ready to take a break and are taking care of yourself physically today. And yes, it IS a matter of just not drinking today, but it’s also good to have a longer range plan. Is there anything you can do to structure your time a little more while you look for work? Maybe even find some place to volunteer or get a temp job in the meantime? It really is helpful when you’re trying to kick the habit to have something fill the days and distract you. There’s only so much you can do to try to fill your time with a self-made schedule. At least that’s what I’ve found. Weekends can still be a little tough for me. Anyway, it’s just something to think about in the days ahead. For now, rest up and get yourself back to feeling human.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I have never been more passionate or motivated than the 6 months to a year after I reached indifference. The only thing I was indifferent to was alcohol. Good lord, the sex was amazing. And life was full of opportunity. Part of it, I think, was that I was exercising so regularly.



Now? Not so much. Everything is tainted by depression, which is thankfully on the wane because of good meds and a good doc.



I went from ~320mg of bac in 2011 down and up and down and up again, settled around 240mg for a couple of years then went down to 80mg. That's why I started drinking against my will again.



You've got a good and valid point, Dun, about my hormones. They're definitely out of whack. It might be less to do with menopause (I'm 45) and more to do with my thyroid. I really need to follow up on that. The last testing I had done (2013) indicated that I was still fertile. ha. And dammit. Glad to hear that you are being treated and doing well.



Kronk, what's up with the injuries? An Ultra??? As in 50 miles? Are you KIDDING me? That's amazing. Also ridiculous. Those people (and I say this with utmost affection and admiration) are nuts. I've just begun walking the dog again and going about 3 miles. Walking, mind you. Amazing how good it makes me feel for the rest of the day. Also, it's more than enough for me at the moment. Part of it is hormonal. A 3 mile walk, at dawn, leaves me soaking wet. It's mortifying. I just remind myself that people must think I just finished running a marathon.



I sweat like I'm a 69 year old obese smoker who hasn't left the house in 40 years and is running a race. Seriously. Even my husband is amazed by the amount of water oozing from my pores. And I'm not a sweat-er, so something is definitely going on.



Stuck, I'm really sorry things are so tough. I feel for you and hope that today is better. You know there are tools, right? Things you can take and do that could really, really help you get and stay sober? I love you, brother. Hang in there.



Stevo, I wonder if your lack of enthusiasm has to do with the fact that it's no longer a hobby and is now a job? Sorry to hear about your malaise. And I can TOTALLY relate to being ambivalent about relating to people who are still dealing with the disease. It's tough when you get so far removed from it. Are you still drinking regularly?



Lost, I keep meaning to send you an email...I don't understand why you aren't going up on bac?



Hi to everyone I've not mentioned.



Peace out. Fer real.

[Lostinspace]

Ne - I’m sorry depression still has a hold on you, but very glad to hear that it’s getting better. Exercise definitely helps, and don’t worry about the sweating. I sweat like a beast, too. It’s embarrassing, but we’re not doing it to impress anyone, just to feel better. I do think about going higher on bac, but I’m worried that it’ll either be pointless, or that I’ll have to go up to an intolerably high dose to reach indifference. I’ve been on 325 mg in the past and it wasn’t enough for indifference. But then I think maybe it would be different this time since I wouldn’t be drinking on the way up, that maybe indifference would hit me sooner because of that. I really don’t know. I’m indecisive, and so I sit at 275 mg. I’ll figure out what I want to do eventually. By the way, it's great seeing you post more

[kronkcarr]

Happy new week. All's well as can be here. I hope the same for all of you. I had a crown come off and finally called the dentist. I don't know what it is with me but I hate calling to make appointments.

I can't decide if that's a lack of self care or just something I don't like doing. It seems some of us have touched on quitting drinking because others demand it. I don't think I'd have gotten serious if I hadn't kept messing up relationships.

Ne, it's the same injury I had last fall but on the other leg. I had a great sports massage last week and got some guidelines about working out in water with a floatation belt. Yes, ultras but not 50 miles. I'm doing a stage race next March. It's a week of running on dirt roads and seeing historical things from as far back as the 500s. I told myself I'd do it so I'm doing it.

[MeJustMe]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I was on here; it's been good to catch up on everyone's news. Not much has changed with me; I get up to a week AL and blow it. The Antibuse works to put the brakes on while I better regulate the Bac intake (I forget doses when drunk) but then I feel as though I've sorted it out and stop taking the Antibuse. Then either something happens - a life 'event' - or nothing happens, but either way I get into a funk. I feel depressed, as though nothing will lift it no matter what I try. Except the one thing, of course...

I went on a 4-day work trip last week where the AL flowed freely and I had only one night off AL. I though I was going to be right for the rest of the trip, then I came back into cell range and got an email from an old friend of mine. We grew up together and while we grew apart when we went to Uni, we always stayed in touch and each time we caught up it we would take it up from where we left off - no awkwardness. Well I found out that he had been in jail for two weeks as he 'allegedly' pulled his wife's hair and is facing up to 4 years jail for domestic violence. It is a long, long story but while I always suspected drug abuse was his problem he has always been very careful to hide it from me and others. Well it was confirmed by his wife that it is heroin, and that his addiction has been off and on for years. Side effects including paranoia, constant lying and most recently, it seems, physical aggression. I had a feeling he wasn't working last time we spoke, and his mother actually told me last week he lost his job 2.5 years ago. When I spoke to him on the weekend, he said the possible jail term would ruin his future job prospects. That gave me the in to innocently ask what about the job he has. He said he'd lost it when in he went into jail two weeks ago. A lie. It makes me so sad that someone I've known since 6 years-old, and who I've shared my life with warts and all, can be so deceitful. I know more than most that it is part and parcel of addiction, but it still has shaken me, the whole thing. I thought he was going so well - met a girl, married two years ago and had a baby - and now he's lost it all and is probably going to be incarcerated.

I've been wondering how it was I had nearly 3 months AL-free and Apr-Jun was for the better part happy about it, and now struggle to get back there. It was so easy that time that I found it hard to relate to those struggling on this forum. Now I'm struggling again. My only hope is to keep in the Antibuse, keep going up on Bac (now on 100mg) and try everything else like exercise, meditation and counseling. I don't know if anyone else relates to this, but once things are going well for me it's like I forget my problem and carry on as if there never was one. Then I'm backed into a corner and with next to no resources to draw on I drink again. I turn 50 this Sunday and I am having a a party on Sat night with 80 people coming. I already feel nervous about doing it sober, and already feel a plan coming on to stop taking Antibuse. Bugger this addiction thing. It sucks.

[Lostinspace]

kronk - I’m sorry you’re injured once more, but at least it doesn’t sound quite so bad this time and you’re getting good care for it. That stage race sounds awesome! Is that in this country? I’m trying to think of anything historical that dates back to the 500s besides those Native American cliff dwellings out west. I’d be interested to hear more about it.

MJM - Don’t get too down about the drinking for now. It is really, really tough to break the cycle, especially when you’re on a lowish dose of bac AND you’re going through a lot of stress in your life as you have been. You’re still on a fairly low dose and there’s a lot of room for improvement. I know what you mean about bac working so well in the beginning, then starting to struggle again. I went through the same thing where I barely drank for two months, thinking I had pretty much reached indifference (outside of those pesky, once every week or so cravings that led me to drink a little bit). Then I quit smoking (cue stress) and all that semi-indifference was lost. I suspect you’re going through something similar. It doesn’t mean that you can never get back to that place, it just means that you weren’t on the right dose of bac to begin with. It was easy to not care about drinking on a lower dose when life was settled and everything seemed to be just as it should be. But with the stressful and painful events of your life these past couple months, it became apparent that that dose wasn’t gonna be enough to carry you through in the long run. Also, I’m very sorry to hear about your friend. As someone with an addiction, you know the deal when it comes to lying and trying to make life seem better than it is, but it’s really hard to be on the other side of that, and to watch someone you care about throwing their life away. Especially a life-long friend. I hope you both find peace soon.

So, after waffling a couple days ago about whether or not I still want to go up on bac, I finally decided to just go for it. I upped my dose to 300 mg yesterday. I’ve been having some pretty unsettling cravings the last week or so. I know why. I’ve been stressed out and anxious about work much more than usual for reasons I won't get into. But the intensity of the cravings when they hit, and the fact that I almost gave in on a few occasions, makes me uncomfortable. If there is such a thing as indifference for me, I’m gonna find it. Anyway, I hope everyone’s having a good one out there.

[Stevo]

G'day to all,
just a quick drop in,I have been at school the last few days and have been studying(or trying to)on all the others.
Once again it is great to see all the posts and to see you more active Ne.I dropped in here and got a sense of community tonight.

i hope everyone is well on this beautiful Friday night...here in Australia(I am thinking it is about 5-6 in the morning in the US).

Yes I am still drinking regularly Ne if you can call on the weekends regularly and I definitely think that my hobby has become like work.
I am not too sure though about whether it is this or not that has created my indifference.I am really pretty down right now though,I just can't seem to get into anything.I am thinking that it may be a not satisfied with my life sort of thing or I am just in a slump.

LIS I am stoked that you are still going strong and that you made a decision about going up or staying where you are.I wish you nothing but the best.

Kronkcarr it is always nice to read your posts...I hate dentists but I hope your tooth is good.

MJM Great to hear from you,sorry to hear you're still struggling.

Cheers Stevo.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Kc, I have a really hard time making and keeping appointments, too. Even my stylist, whom I adore with an almost unhealthy fan-girl intensity. It's a relief that he's gay, and very young. Kidding. Sorta.

Sorry about the injury. I wonder why you got that same one on the other side. Is it your stride? Your muscle makeup? I'm also very curious about the run you're going on. Sounds really cool.

MJM, it's hard to remember how much life sucked when life really sucked because I was actively alcoholic and totally miserable. About everything. I don't know that I could ever be that desperate again. God, I hope not. One of the things I don't do is assume when things are good that I should change anything. The reason is because the research shows that this is the number one reason people don't get and stay well! Really. Because people start to feel better, stop what they're doing to feel that way, and revert back to the baseline. It sucks because it's hard to keep taking the pills/exercising/meditating/whatever. I feel your pain! But hang in there and remember the # 2 rule, (#1 geg good sleep), be kind to yourself. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is worse for you than being your own worst enemy. I read somewhere that we should think about the fact that we would never say to another person the things we say to ourselves about ourselves. And it's so true. Why would you be the Mean Girl to yourself when you wouldn't do it to someone else?

Lis, I don't want to encourage you to go up, because it's up to you, but I'm so damn glad you're going up. If it's based on how much we drink, and for how long we've been drinking, and whether or not we are still actively drinking, it stands to reason that you'd have to go higher. I mean, I know I got it bad, and I had to get to 325mg. Even if none of that is true, I really believe it works for almost everyone and actual indifference is so worth the effort. But that's an opinion, of course, and so it's up to everyone to make their own decisions. Dammit. Would that I could run other people's lives. Of course, I'm not very effective at running my own at the moment, so probably not a good idea.

Stuck, hope you're well.

Stevo, sorry about the continuing malaise. I hope you can get to the bottom of it and rise up sometime very soon.