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[treetops]

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As was said it takes guts to admit you have a problem with AL and then to actually do something about it. Very few of the people on MWO have just quit drinking but they have stopped and started over many years. The important thing is to keep trying and to feel good about that.
Eventually most of us here do get to where we want which is for most, kicking AL out of our lives. We all have different routes to this. Some use medication, others don't or they use a combination of methods.
In the meantime keep posting and know you have lots of warm support on MWO.

[StuckinLA]

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Goddamn, Lis. It f**king sucks being stuck in the place you're at. And taking away the booze, in all honesty, is probably going to make it suck even worse and I wish there were something, anything, anybody could do to make it better. Just don't give up, don't drink more than your taper schedule, and keep taking the f**king pills.

As for the husband, only time will tell. But you are on your way to making the very most important change in your life, one day at a time, and he's going to see that, one day at a time. It takes for damned ever, and there's nothing to do but wait it out. Sadly, the one day at a time platitudes are all I got.

Try the 120 for a while. I always moved up or down 10mgs every 4 or 5 days and didn't have problems with it. Especially below 150mgs, no problems.

EDIT for hugs :l:l:l

[beckty]

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Lostinspace;1673763 wrote: Thank you caro/3 for your kind words. I just came back to check to boards because, well, I am dying inside. I keep trying to go on with life and to better myself at that. But, then, my husband comes into the same room as me and, all of a sudden, I?m reminded. I knew damn well on Saturday (as well as god knows how many times before), that I shouldn?t keep drinking. I was already seeing double. HELLO!!!!! Warning sign. Stop drinking, you fool! I didn?t. He may never come to forgive me this time and I can?t change the past. That hurts, a lot. But, whatever comes of it, I will try my best to be a better woman this time around. Sorry to bellyache. I have no one else to talk to and I?m just finally spilling my guts out. I?m trying to learn to be okay with myself and to stay positive. I really appreciate your responding. But, I should know better, because I?ve been given many chances to get things right, I just haven?t so far. I will come around eventually (soon).

Lost, I've done some crazy hurtful things while drinking that really wreaked havoc in my marriage as well. It was so difficult to work through. I am very hard on myself. And I am a huge Over-reactor as well. The negative self talk in my head, and the way I work out scenarios in my imagination to their ultimate negative "crash and burn" is creative and just straight up nonsense. As it turns out, my worst assumptions (hey, gotta prepare for the worst, right?) are never ever true. My husband and I are in a better place than we've ever been, in spite of our still drinking. We are both working toward being AL Free. And I believe we will find it. But I also know there will be healing that needs to take place in me, and in him and between US. Right now, I am trying hard to stay in the moment, or at least in the same day, and trying not to borrow more trouble. That only makes me drink more. Go figure!

Anyway, just wanted to let you know I am sorry you are fighting so hard and that you're so sad right now. I've been there and it straight up sucks. :heart:

[caro/3]

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Hi LIS,

I found that when I was drinking heavily (about 35 years!) it made me paranoid and always thinking the worst about any situation. Obviously I don't know what is going on in your marriage, but your husband must love you or he would not have married you.

Why do you think so many people are responding to your thread? Well my guess is because you have touched a nerve and so many people have experienced what you are going through. And got through it and had happy lives too.

I know you may find it impossible to believe at the moment but things can get better. I was suicidal last year (long story) but now I am a very happy camper and nobody is more shocked at this than me.

Baclofen worked for me when all else had failed.

Hang in there girl.

Love

Caro

[Lostinspace]

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Thank you treetops. I do acknowledge that it’s a good thing to admit your problem and do something about it. Unfortunately, I’m not new to trying to quit - only new to MWO. Hopefully, this time I can make it my last quit. I do very much appreciate the supportive environment here. It’s very nice to see other people who have struggled in the past, but finally made it to the other side!

Stuck - thank you for the hugs and for the advice. Yes, one day at a time is really all I can do. He hasn’t kicked me out or (as far as I know) made plans to move out himself, so I hope that’s a sign there’s still time to repair the damage, if I don’t make it worse. Time will tell . . . In the meantime, I’ll keep doing the best I can - and keep taking the f**king pills.

Thank you beckty - it’s hard not to focus on the “crash and burn” worst case scenario. I may be overreacting, as you say. I do tend have a lot of negative self-talk and find it hard to imagine that anyone could ever love me long-term. It’s hard to know where this is going, but I’ll do my best to never repeat past mistakes. That’s all I can do. I’m glad your husband and you are doing so much better. I wish you the best as you continue your healing. That’s great that he’s trying to kick AL with you! My husband only drinks infrequently, and in moderation, so he doesn’t understand the battle. I can only imagine that you two, working together, will find the great relationship that you’re after.

Caro - thank you for your kindness and encouragement. As I kind of said above, it’s hard to know where things are really going. I’ve had moments of being ridiculously paranoid and moments of not being paranoid enough and have lost a lot. I will keep trying to have faith that if I stay on track, life will get better.

Update, just to stay accountable: I’m still not on track. Haven’t gone back up in drinking, but haven’t tapered, either. I will continue trying, given that I’m (successfully?) not backsliding. However, if things haven’t changed by my next doctor’s appointment on July 2nd, then I will humbly ask if he would be kind enough to give me one more shot at an outpatient detox. Detoxing on benzos is SO much easier than trying to slowly reduce your consumption of the poison you’re used to. There’s no question if you’ll drink or how much - you simply won’t!

[spiritwolf333]

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Lostinspace;1674143 wrote:
Update, just to stay accountable: I?m still not on track. Haven?t gone back up in drinking, but haven?t tapered, either. I will continue trying, given that I?m (successfully?) not backsliding. However, if things haven?t changed by my next doctor?s appointment on July 2nd, then I will humbly ask if he would be kind enough to give me one more shot at an outpatient detox. Detoxing on benzos is SO much easier than trying to slowly reduce your consumption of the poison you?re used to. There?s no question if you?ll drink or how much - you simply won?t!

Hi Lost -Wow. I have been reading your thread and re-feeling the alcohol withdrawal pains that your are experiencing.

For me, I was just absolutely kidding myself to think that I could "taper" off alcohol without some form of outside help. Sure, I have read where a few folks were able to successfully do the taper down thing- well then, I would say, why not me? The mental and physical parts of alcoholism were too powerful for me to overcome by myself. I thought to myself, "I have been able to overcome or do any thing else that I have made my mind up to do, so I should be able to do the same with alcohol -right?". Wrong. At least wrong for me. (I had to have some medications and direct third party oversight-daily for five days- to initially eliminate alcohol)

Lost -I am an alcoholic (at least not drinking anymore) and from what I read that you write, you are to? This is not your first rodeo at trying to quit so you know the drill. I can only suggest that you listen to "yourself". Sounds to me like you already know a few of your own answers and you know what a pain in the arse it is to detox or quit short term is?

It is my opinion and experience that once you break free from the alcohol for a few weeks and you are taking Baclofen (or Gabapentin), you will have a real chance at staying sober. Regardless of all other things, listen to the self in you that is trying to be free of alcohol. May not be what you want to hear, but it might be what you need to hear.

Just a thought.

[Lostinspace]

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Thanks, Spirit. I will be careful in this. My only purpose in putting off a medical detox is that I once actually did taper off successfully (didn't last long at all!). I want to do this by myself if there's any way I can. If not, I will put my tail between my legs and go back to the doctor, asking for another chance. Baclofen is giving me the reduced cravings I need to stay (somewhat) on track, at least not to go backwards. Tomorrow is a new day. And again, if I keep failing at my attempts, I will ask my doctor. At this point, my shame is not too powerful to ask for anything. I want change and a better life. Thank you for your thoughts.

[caro/3]

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Hi LIS,

Please try and be kinder to yourself if you can. Reading your self critical thoughts is like remembering my own bundle of negative self talk I carried about for so many years.

You are not failing at anything, it is hard for you to accept that at the moment. Would you speak to a friend the way you speak to yourself? I bet the answer is no. I must have tried to quit thousands of times, and I am not exaggerating. I have done some terrible things and humiliated myself on so many occasions that even now I shudder at the recollections and feel deep shame and regret.

But the longer I don't drink the stronger my backbone is, now I can be kinder to myself and a bit more objective and see that I was born with an illness I didn't ask for an kept at trying to recover until I was lucky enough to be still around when Baclofen gave me the key to a much happier life.

It does not have to be Baclofen of course to set people free but I, and MWO worked when all else had failed, and not a day goes by without me being incredibly grateful.

Now, understandably, you feel so low that I bet if somebody kicked you, physically or metaphorically, you would think you deserved it. But you don't, I have said it before and I know it is hard at the moment for you to accept but you should be proud of yourself for keeping trying.

So many people on these boards have turned their lives around, after numerous attempts to stop, think about it logically it can happen for you too.

Sorry to keep giving you lectures (see, I can still feel the need to apologise for my opinions!) but I identify so much with what you write. Lots of people on this board gave me good, compassionate advice when I was low and I just want to try and help you in any small way I can.

Caro

[Lostinspace]

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Thank you so much Caro! You?re not lecturing (as you may feel the need to say, but it?s not necessary!). I very much appreciate your words of wisdom and empathy. No, I would not speak to a friend that way, but I also have had friends condemn me for being the drunken ass that I am (who will never speak to me again - I only have two friends left - and they live far away from me!). I will keep trying to be strong. And in the future, I will try to be a better friend, both to the two I have left, and to the new ones who come my way. And, as a sidenote: is it wrong that I envy people who have or have had drinking friends? I haven?t had drinking friends since high school. Every one I?ve made friends with as an adult eventually comes to hate me, not because I say or do anything hurtful (I seem to only do that with significant others), but because I?m a drunk and they don?t want to have to deal with ?someone like me.?

Update: I?m sorry to say that I once again did not taper down, but once again have stayed at the same level. I think maybe I went about this too quickly? I was drinking roughly a liter and a half of vodka and/or bourbon a day, sometimes more, sometimes a little less. My plan was to cut back immediately to one liter a day (probably too drastic a cut), then cut back by three shots a day, until none. I did that - cut back to a liter, then cut out three more shots. I did experience very mild withdrawal (feeling shaky, sweating, heart racing, temporary moments of feeling bugs crawling both on my skin and through my veins) in between my doses of ?medicine? aka booze. But this only lasted for a couple days. My body is already fine with the change. I should have gone down by now. But I guess taking it slow is not a bad thing, so long as I keep plugging along and make this the last day that I stay at this level!

[Lostinspace]

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Just want to clarify: I'm really not a monster. My ex-husband and current husband might beg to differ, but that's only because I seem to only become a monster in romantic relationships, go figure. My main problem with friends is that I can't keep up. They tell me things, and I can't remember the details (not because I'm blackout drunk, usually - my tolerance is pretty damn high - I usually remember bits and pieces of the conversation). They hate having to tell me the same things over and over, and eventually tell me that being friends with me is "exhausting," or something along those lines. I want to change that. Sorry for rambling all over the board. I'll shut up now.

[StuckinLA]

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I love drinking friends! I lost most of mine when I moved across the country - 6 years, and I still haven't bothered to go out and meet new people really. And now that I don't drink hardly ever it's so boring to hang out with them past a certain point. Drunks just... aren't fun.

Stay the course, sister, stay the course. You're doing great. :l

[Lostinspace]

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Thanks, Stuck. I will definitely stay the course. Yeah, I guess drunks would be pretty boring when you're not joining in with them. Since I'm moving towards an AF life, it's probably a good thing that I've been missing out on that judgement-free camaraderie.

[StuckinLA]

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Lostinspace;1674726 wrote: Thanks, Stuck. I will definitely stay the course. Yeah, I guess drunks would be pretty boring when you're not joining in with them. Since I'm moving towards an AF life, it's probably a good thing that I've been missing out on that judgement-free camaraderie.

I guess I'd like to clarify my thoughts there for a second. I don't believe in punishing oneself for past mistakes or for being a drunk or anything like that. AA feels like punishment to me, and like I'm being forced to give up certain things or forced to change my whole life, and it feels like I'm supposed to deserve that change somehow. I tried AA a few years ago, not seriously and not as hardcore as you're supposed to - I went to 1 meeting a week for a couple months, and never talked to anyone or got a sponsor. But even with just that, I broke down in tears most nights getting off the bus and passing my favorite bar in the neighborhood on my way home. It sucked.

Now I go to that bar most days, or at least a couple times a week unless I forget or don't feel like it. Hell, a lot of the time when I don't feel like going I get up and drag myself out to the bar just to get out of the apartment for a little bit. I've already given up alcohol, why should I also have to give up a place that makes me happy? I always felt comfortable at that bar, and enjoy talking with one particular bartender and she's hot as hell and I like that she wears her shirts with like 4 buttons undone. So I go and drink O'Doul's. I'm not saying this will work for everybody, and sometimes it's simply boring when you're not drinking alcohol and sometimes it's deeply sad to be there when not drinking, but it can also be nice, too. Like I said, I don't feel like I'm denying myself or depriving myself of anything. I choose not to drink because of the anxiety attacks I have in withdrawal, and because my blood pressure becomes dangerously high when I drink - both when drinking and when in withdrawal, and it takes about a month of abstinence for it to return to normal. So I choose not to drink but I certainly *could* drink if I wanted - I look at it as a choice not a requirement either way, and that's what's worked for me.

The old adage that you don't go to an apple orchard unless you're looking for apples just doesn't apply the way I see it - I'm not going to the bar because I'm looking for booze, but because I've always felt at home in bars and like being there more than the lame-ass coffee shops in my neighborhood. The trouble is that drunk people *aren't* all that fun when you're not drinking, and I don't stay at the bar very long because there's no next drink, 'oh just one more,' keeping me there. So 2, at the most 3 O'Doul's and I'm about ready to get out of there. It's weird, and a process that takes some getting used to, but again it works for me. And I just wanted to say all this when you said you're working toward an AF life. For me, an AF life is not a life spent avoiding all the places where alcohol might be. The opposite, almost. I like watching people drink, I love the bottles and the cocktail shakers and the shot glasses and the bar atmosphere. It's not fair that I have a couple medical issues related to alcohol and can't drink it myself anymore, but life isn't f**king fair, and I just try to deal with it.

I should also say that, while I'm not on baclofen now, two years ago I did titrate up to about 240mgs/day or so, and was taking bac for over a year, and I do believe I hit the switch before I stopped taking it entirely for my own side-effect-related reasons. That experience might have a lot to do with how I look at things now, as a choice, etc.

Whether alcoholics stay on baclofen or not is a personal thing - and I try not to advocate one way or the other. But the switch dose is such a weird wonderful amazing thing, and I do feel that everybody should at least once know what it's like to sit down at a bar and order a drink, and take a sip of it, and actually, honestly realize that you don't want drink and not finish it and then go home without even thinking about alcohol again for the rest of the night. It blows your mind, and kind of fundamentally changes the way one looks at booze. Suddenly, alcohol isn't *always* the answer. That's probably a whole lot more babbling than anyone expected this morning.

[Lostinspace]

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I agree, wholeheartedly, Stuck. Who wants to live their life in fear? I, too, went to AA, probably for way longer than I should have considering that (a) it never helped me to get off alcohol and (b) I disagreed with much of their basic philosophy. Like you, it felt like a punishment, and I especially hate the fear-based motivational approach that they use. When I finally get my sh*t together, I shouldn’t have to fear anything. I’m not either “moving towards a drink or moving away from one.” I should just be living life. And just because I don’t go to meetings anymore doesn’t mean that my “disease is doing push-ups in the parking lot.” What a bunch of nonsense! And lol about the hot bartender. The only difference between us is that I was never a big bar scene person. For me, bars were a last resort - as in, I got out of control tonight, already drank everything I have because I didn’t plan to buy enough, now the liquor stores are closed and I have no choice but to go to a bar until the stores open up again in the morning. I haven’t done that in a while. The last time I went to a bar (almost two years ago), I drove off the road, crashed my car, and got a DWI, along with several other related charges (leaving the scene of an accident, resisting arrest, etc. etc.). Not a happy day, by any stretch of the imagination. Hence, why I still have no license and no car, and am still suffering other legal consequences to this day. Don’t want to say too much as I’m paranoid that someone will find this site and be like, “hey, those details sound a little TOO familiar.” Long story short, I hear ya. I don’t want my AF life to limited by anything. I can still do/go whatever/wherever I want. Fear will not define my life.

Anyway, another day of holding steady, but not tapering down. I will keep trying, but still have my doctor appointment on July 2nd as a last resort, if medical detox is needed (ugh!!!!).

I also went up another 20 mg on baclofen today (now at a total of 100 mg). That may be more of a jump than I should do in one day, but I’m feeling very anxious to get up to 120 mg as soon as possible, considering that I only have enough extra pills to stay at that dose for a short while before having to come back down to 80 mg - unless I’m successful in getting my doctor on board with letting me try the high dose baclofen route. Besides, I don’t have to work today, so I figured it would be a good day to experiment. Thankfully, I’ve not had any side effects from the increase anyway. I’m very curious/desperate to see if 120 mg will bring me any closer to that magical sweet spot of indifference. Guess I’ll just have to wait and see . . .

[Eber]

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Hey LIS, so far it's been good for me.. not at that spot of indifference yet, after a couple days at 120, and I did take an extra 20 today because I was on the brink.. Not been AF entirely, but my cravings are much reduced. I don't want to live my life in fear either, I think that's really important to me. It's not so much that I want to be able to drink normally again, although that'd be nice, but I want those around me to not worry either and I'd like to be able to go out to eat or go to nice cocktail bars with friends and not feel like I'm white nuckling it or stressing anyone out. Hell, I live in a place where good food, wine and drinks are a huge part of the social landscape and I don't want to have to hide from that.

Arg, it's not easy, but it's getting better, and I hope to keep it heading in a better direction with this routine.

Side effects have been pretty minimal, so I hope to keep being able to increase it until I hit that switch.. I can't wait until I feel that, hope you can get there as well. I'm lucky that I detoxed completely before going into this, but now it's going to be about keeping it all together on the way up!