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[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Have a good trip, LIS!

[skullbabyland]

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StuckinLA;1696862 wrote: Ne, as always, a lovely post full of sound "advice." I am glad my cranky foot-stomping post inspired such a reaction.

And tossing the vodka bottle is certainly a reasonable idea. Though it's not always necessarily a self-sabotage kit. When my mom quit smoking she kept the last cigarette of her last pack in a drawer (with a lighter tucked in there, too) and it stayed in that drawer... 15 years? However long it was until they moved out of the house and even then, it's packed away somewhere. Knowing that if things got *that bad* it was there was comforting. And it - to me - feels different knowing that there is 1 very particular safety net, instead of thinking about all the liquor stores out there or all the cigarette shops or whatever. I left the last 6 pack I bought *in the refrigerator* for the 7 months I got sober (not on baclofen), and when I drank it wasn't from that 6 pack (it was in New Orleans, long story told elsewhere).

I'm not sayin' one way or the other is right, or even sure myself which I'd rather do right now - keep a bottle around or make sure the house is dry. Only that different things work for different people at different times of their lives.

EDIT: It's been great seeing you around a little more, Skull. Haven't followed your thread too closely of late, but sounds like you're doing really well and that is so lovely to hear.

Thanks, man. Yep life is manageable if not great at the moment, but it certainly could be much worse, so I'm happy enough.

I hear you guys on the bottle- different strokes for different folks. I just know that for me, if I was to have a bottle in the house, or hang out at a bar or whatever-- to just be around booze that's really easily available-- I'd be so much more tempted to drink so much sooner that if I hadn't.. so just wanted to throw it out there. For me, the time it takes to go to the liquor store can occasionally provide me with enough time/distance to reflect and sometimes to choose not to drink after all.

Take care today you guys, and Lis, have a lovely camping trip

[Lostinspace]

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Well, we're back. The trip was awesome. We had a nice hike through a beautiful hardwood forest. But even though the hike was tiring, after we set up camp was when the real physical exertion began. I grabbed my portable, assemble-on-site bow saw from my pack and my husband and I took turns cutting up fallen trees for fire wood. I forgot how much work that takes. We decided we had enough wood when his back began to spasm and my arms felt like they were going to fall off.

It was worth it, though. It was so peaceful sitting by the fire last night. In between talking, there were periods of silence where I found myself meditating, so to speak, without even trying to. I sat there, entranced by the fire, listening to the crickets and tree frogs in the background. I had no conscious thoughts running through my mind; I was completely lost in the moment. It was just so nice to be in nature again.

And as the last hint of light faded into darkness, we heard coyotes howling in the not so far away distance. Shortly after, a nearby owl started hooting. I slid into my sleeping bag last night with a sense of calm I haven't felt in a very long time.

I apologize if this doesn't sound very exciting. I want to journal this experience at least for my own future reference. I've never gone backpacking sober before. I was afraid that the magic I felt in the past was mostly due to being heavily buzzed and stoned out in nature, rather than just the experience of being in nature itself. I'm happy to say I was wrong. I'd be lying if I didn't say that there were times when I felt like something was missing. But overall, this trip was just as magical as my trips in the past.

Although once back home, when I jumped in the shower, I was blindsided by cravings. Suddenly I wanted to drink so badly I could taste it. I started to think about that hidden bottle of vodka and was fighting with myself, but mostly leaning in the direction of "YES!! I need it!" I lingered for an extra long time in the shower while I contemplated my next move. Fortunately, my husband was already making other plans and we ended up having sex as soon as I got out. That distracted me and got all those happy brain chemicals going The craving was then a thing of the past. But this is now the second time I've had monster cravings at this dose. I definitely need to go up again.

Well that's enough out of me. I hope you're all having a great night :l

[spiritwolf333]

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Wow. Lost, it sounds almost like you are an alcoholic (lol-jk). It really does not matter whether anyone responds or not, just the fact that you wrote (eloquently) about your experience is the important part -right?

Sounds like you are doing really well. Keep it up. I have to believe that the husband is both amazed and overjoyed.

[Samandkatharine]

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Congrats Guill!

You reached your switch very quickly. Do you mind telling me how much you were drinking before and for how long? Others might find your story inspiring.

Being active helps with the Bac SEs. Good job!

Sam

[Samandkatharine]

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guillaume;1698414 wrote: last decade drinking alone on average one bottle/day wine plus one bottle/day liquor during weekends plus unlimited drinks when partying/out, deviation from half as much to double as much. drank all my adult life started as adolescent, until now i have never been one week sober since i was in my mid teen years, i have to this date never attended a social event sober. thank you for your kind words samandkatharine, quillaume

Are you taking baclofen now? How much?

Your story sounds familiar! Welcome. You are in the right place.

:welcome:

[Lostinspace]

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Thanks, Spirit. Yes, my husband is very happy with the changes he's seen in me - and I'm ecstatic with how great we're getting along these days. I really can't remember the last time things were this good

Hi guillaume :welcome: I'm happy to hear you feel comfortable posting here. And congrats on hitting your switch so quickly! That's amazing. Although it's no wonder that you're having so many side effects. That was a pretty fast titration. But you've been at the same dose, more or less, for a few weeks now (if I'm reading your schedule correctly). The side effects may still linger for a while longer, but they should eventually subside. It feels good not to have to drink, right?

Well, it's the last day of my vacation :upset: I really don't want to go back, especially because one of the other two lab techs starts his vacation tomorrow. This means I'll have to do half of his job in addition to mine for the rest of the week. Not a very nice welcome back! But after saying that, I'm going to try my damnedest not to think about work again until tomorrow morning. These last few hours of freedom are mine to enjoy.

Today was mostly a quiet day at home. I went for an hour-long walk after my neurologist appointment this morning, but other than that, I've spent the whole day so far reading. I thought I was being overly ambitious by taking out three books that I have to return in three weeks. But since I took them out on Friday, I've already finished two of them and am 70 pages into the third. I think I'm developing a new, healthy addiction Anyway, I had no real cravings today, just fleeting thoughts of drinking that were pretty easy to ignore. This concludes the first AF vacation of my adult life. It's really been a good one. I hope you all have a great night :l

[StuckinLA]

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Lis, that is so awesome that you had such a great vacation. And I feel your pain not wanting to go back to work. Just wanted to pop in here quickly to let everyone know I'm not dead or anything. Just incredibly busy, overwhelmed, and trying to get through everything without a complete breakdown. Quit drinking a couple days ago, so not sleeping well at all yet. And having random waves of sheer total complete panic now and then, as ya'll are familiar with, I'm sure. But there's no f**king way I'd be able to do everything I need to do while drinking, so well there's that. And also fear is such a great motivator. A few minutes ago, in fact, I got back from a jog - up to almost 4 miles, and down to 13 minute miles on average even with all the hills in my neighborhood. Because I'm f**king terrified of being unhealthy and dying. And terrified of not getting my work done.

That's all from me. :welcome: Guillaume. :l:l:ls all around.

[Lostinspace]

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Hey Stuck! I'm glad to hear you've been able to quit drinking, but not so happy to hear that it's coming from a place of fear and panic. I'm all too familiar with that painful motivator. I hope things start to settle down for you soon and that you can get some sleep. Getting through another semester is stressful enough without the added withdrawal anxiety. Hopefully the jogging is helping you release some of that tension. Hang in there :l :l

Today was hectic, but not as bad as I expected. After work, I had an urge to stop by the liquor store that I frequented most often. But after thinking it over for a good ten minutes, I realized that it wasn't for the booze. When I imagined myself actually drinking the vodka and bourbon I was planning on buying, I wasn't in the mood for it. What I really wanted was a little friendly chitchat with any of the guys who work there (I know them all pretty well after stopping by day after day).

How lame and sad is that? I was reminded that I literally have no friends in the town I live in besides my husband. I have a few good longtime friends I've kept in touch with by phone, and the very occasional visit, but they all live at least a five-hour bus ride away. I've made friends since moving here, but have managed to lose them all, usually on account of me being a drunken annoying loser.

Leaving booze behind has presented a bit of a conundrum. On one hand, I'm more afraid of talking to people now and have started further retreating into my own world. On the other hand, without the haze of liquor to shield me, I'm becoming more aware of just how lonely I am sometimes. I'm embarrassed to even type this, but it's my reality and I just want to get it out. Anyway, I hope you're all having a great night :l

[davelet]

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Hi Lis

I've stopped drinking for 5 days now and I too am suffering from lack of friendship. It's not that I have lost my friends through being drunken and stupid - it's that all of my friends are drunks and I have no-one at all to hang out with that doesn't involve drinking. I couldn't even go to church on Sunday because here in England church is a drinking club with a bit of religion involved. The only person I have to talk to is my partner who has stopped drinking as well. But to say that conversation flows when we're both sober would be a lie.

Basically I just feel lonely and need to find people to hang out with who don't drink. The ONLY place I can think of going to to find such people is AA but I can't imagine the shame of going back there and saying "I'm back, 5 days sober after a relapse of 15 months" and seeing them all shaking their heads and tutting under their self-righteous breath.

Also, I can't even phone people up for a chat when I'm sober as I just find it so boring. And as for phoning my mother sober ... I did that on Sunday for the first time in about 15 months and it was painful having to deal with the same old sh1t sober. And her deafness - I know I should be more patient but having to shout every single thing you say down the phone at least twice was bad enough when I was drunk but doing it when I was sober. I must have smoked 10 red Marlboros while talking to her, just lost count.

How do people find friendship sober? I think here in the UK it's impossible (apart from through AA) as every single aspect of British life involves drinking.

David.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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I'm with Stuck: Mired in the beginning of the semester stuff and without a bunch of time. Still reading, though.

LIS, the thing I was mushy about last week (the post I deleted) is how wonderfully you're doing and how heart-happy that makes me. It also prompts a bit of sweet nostalgia for those heady days.

I was pretty clear from the outset that I needed to find new things to do and that most of them were going to make me uncomfortable. That included ways to make new friends or find things to do with old friends that didn't include booze. (Harder, I suppose, if your friends are your alcohol-dependent-drinking buddies. But not impossible...)

Group or team exercise, a meditation group, volunteering somewhere...Those are the tried and true options. Fred did the volunteering at a shelter for cats. Others have done the exercise thing--there are groups of Couch to 5k or something similar for sedentary people. A hiking club. An environmental thing. Continuing education. Religion of some sort. Politics. (Though, omg, that would probably increase my discomfort 10-fold and lead me straight back to the bottle. And who would blame me? :H)

One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of your income level at the moment, not drinking frees up a lot more money than you could begin to imagine. It's not just the cost of the booze, either. A lot of the decisions I made about finances (and what to buy) when I was in the throes of addiction were really not good or reasonable.

My suggestion? Do lots of things you wouldn't normally do and see what sticks.

Also, LIS, for me it was a time to get my house in order and work on being a better, more communicative partner. I worked hard at looking at my own behavior (without blame or shame, please) and setting up ways to make our relationship positive. I wasn't even sure if we were together simply because of booze and needed to find out if there was more to it. Happily, there was.

egad. Puppy and husband are awake and I gotta go do stuff to start this day. Life is back on track, finally. And good.

Hope it's a good day.

[skullbabyland]

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davelet;1698955 wrote: Hi Lis

I've stopped drinking for 5 days now and I too am suffering from lack of friendship. It's not that I have lost my friends through being drunken and stupid - it's that all of my friends are drunks and I have no-one at all to hang out with that doesn't involve drinking. I couldn't even go to church on Sunday because here in England church is a drinking club with a bit of religion involved. The only person I have to talk to is my partner who has stopped drinking as well. But to say that conversation flows when we're both sober would be a lie.

Basically I just feel lonely and need to find people to hang out with who don't drink. The ONLY place I can think of going to to find such people is AA but I can't imagine the shame of going back there and saying "I'm back, 5 days sober after a relapse of 15 months" and seeing them all shaking their heads and tutting under their self-righteous breath.

Also, I can't even phone people up for a chat when I'm sober as I just find it so boring. And as for phoning my mother sober ... I did that on Sunday for the first time in about 15 months and it was painful having to deal with the same old sh1t sober. And her deafness - I know I should be more patient but having to shout every single thing you say down the phone at least twice was bad enough when I was drunk but doing it when I was sober. I must have smoked 10 red Marlboros while talking to her, just lost count.

How do people find friendship sober? I think here in the UK it's impossible (apart from through AA) as every single aspect of British life involves drinking.

David.

David- I understand and sympathize. As to meeting new sober folks- there's often sober groups on meetup.com , have you tried that as an option? Not sure if meetup.com is in England, but I am sure if not, there is some kind of similar site...?

[Lostinspace]

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I'm sorry to hear you're going through something similar, davelet. I know what you mean about feeling like AA is the only place you'll find people who want to do things that don't involve, or revolve around, drinking. And I couldn't imagine setting foot inside one of those rooms again, not because of shame over relapsing, but for a million other reasons I won't go into. Don't lose hope, though. There are bound to be other people out there who know how to have fun without getting trashed. Maybe try one of the things that Ne or Skull suggested.

And thanks for the suggestions, Ne. A hiking group might be right up my alley. I think I might like to do volunteer work, too. I have an idea in mind, but I'm afraid people will laugh at me, so I'll keep it to myself for now. Of course, my main problem right now is lack of transportation, but hopefully my husband would be willing to accommodate me.

Also thanks for sharing the mushiness, although right now I don't deserve any happy thoughts at all. I'm ashamed to say that I finally caved this evening and bought some vodka and bourbon. I already had some vodka at home, but the craving was too strong to wait that long. This really sucks. For the most part, I've been doing really well at 160 mg. I only had three instances in two weeks of really intense cravings. The first two I moved through without drinking; today didn't go as smoothly.

I'm going to try, though, to stop mentally bludgeoning myself for drinking tonight. For the most part, I've done a pretty good job at ridding those pesky AA and rehab nonsense thoughts from my head. But there's still a part of me that feels like I blew it. I had two weeks AF, and now I go back to nothing. That's bullsh*t. I was not only AF, but mostly happy at the same time - a feat I previously thought was impossible. Nothing can take that away. My switch is just around the corner. I'll just keep waiting (and working on myself) until it happens. I hope you all have a great night :l

[StuckinLA]

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Lostinspace;1699123 wrote:
I was not only AF, but mostly happy at the same time - a feat I previously thought was impossible. Nothing can take that away. :l

Damned right nothing can take that away. You had 2 good/great weeks, you've worked on your relationship with your husband and rekindled some of the romance there, and had an amazing maybe even spiritual experience in the wilderness - sober.

So you're not starting over with nothing. You're building on what you've already been doing.

[bkyogagurl]

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StuckinLA;1699126 wrote: Damned right nothing can take that away. You had 2 good/great weeks, you've worked on your relationship with your husband and rekindled some of the romance there, and had an amazing maybe even spiritual experience in the wilderness - sober.

So you're not starting over with nothing. You're building on what you've already been doing.

Exactly,.,. My thoughts. I am drinking tonight. I am not ashamed just frustrated that is supposed that we should feel that way. I think it's important to give account to the certain progress made.. Not to the fucking infamous days AF...