Here we go again

[Ne1]

Damn. Hugs don't work here, but I know you know what ":l" means. xxoo

[Ne1]

One more solution I forgot to mention and it's probably the most important/notable one: Ride this out. Baclofen works. What you've achieved and what you're working toward aren't lost. It doesn't just go away.

[skullbabyland]

Hey Lis- hang in there. Quitting one addiction is tough enough, and adding a second throws on even more challenges. That said, I applaud you for doing so! Just do whatever you need to do to get through these uncomfortable few days without alcohol or cigs, as best you can- it will get easier and the cravings will subside. Ne is right, they ebb and flow. I still experience this from time to time too.

Just stay the course, allow yourself to feel cranky and uncomfortable, accept that it sucks and that's OK, and do what you need to do to get through the day. I find couch/TV/early bed works well for me while I'm working on early days of establishing healthy patterns.

Also as Ne and Tee mention, some people add in occasional helpers to fend off possibilities of drinking- in my case that is Antabuse on top of baclofen. I'm sure you've read about this in my thread, but if not, go back and do some reading if you're so inclined- it's proven to be the winning combination for me to not indulge, and ride out the uncomfortable times and ultimately become reasonably comfortable. A bit of time without indulging makes all these things easier, I promise.

[SFGiants]

Damn. Hugs don't work here, but I know you know what ":l" means. xxoo

Hi Ne and all..

Ne, the emoticons are above the box you type in... See the smiley face? I had to change my name and re register. What a pain.
Everyone knows I'm not rooting for the Cardinals.:welldone:

LIS, quitting smoking is playing havoc on your GABA. They are screaming for a substitute. Maybe take some l-theanine? Exercise to get the endorphins going? I quit smoking years ago when I took up running.

Sam(Samandkatharine )

[Lostinspace]

Thanks for the feedback, Ne, Tee, Skull and Sam. And Ne, I'm not sure I ever truly experienced indifference, either, but it sure as hell seemed like it for quite a while. I may very well have to go the mail-order route to get more bac. I know my doctor won't up the dose and, based on what he said to me the last time I was there, I'm afraid he would take me off bac entirely if he had any idea I'm still struggling with drinking. I also don't hold much hope for any drug cocktails. I've been on gabapentin in the past, and the SEs were so terrible, I had to stop it (there was also no perceptible benefit). Campral I tolerated better, although it made me really irritable and likewise did nothing for my cravings. Naltrexone I haven't yet tried, but that's not supposed to help with cravings anyway. For now, I'll take your advice to just try to ride this out and hope that my relative indifference returns. If not, I can always order online. And :hug: right back at ya, Ne. It makes me sad that hugs don't work the same, especially since the previous symbol for hugs looks like a "meh" face, so all the old posts are full of us giving each other dirty looks!

Tee - I know what you mean about that wishful thinking. I seem to have had a few false alarms on bac so far, thinking that the battle was finally over for good, just to end up hip-deep in cravings only days, or weeks, later. I wish there were some kind of tangible finish line with bac indifference so I could know for sure that I've crossed it. Oh wait, that's just more wishful thinking

And good luck with the Antabuse! I know that combo has worked really well for some people here. I still have too much of a scornful relationship with Antabuse to really give it another shot - at least for now. Besides the earlier times I was prescribed it by my psychiatrist, it was also forced on me at a detox and, upon my discharge, my doctor there gave my husband the explicit instructions to 1. Watch me take the pill and 2. Check my mouth afterwards to make sure I really swallowed it. That led to a lot of problems in our relationship. I know I wasn't very trustworthy in any respect back in those days, but I cannot tolerate being treated like a wayward child. I know that has nothing to do with Antabuse, specifically, and everything to do with bad memories of being infantilized by idiot doctors, and me holding a grudge in response, but I'm not ready to look at that possibility yet. Anyway, before I embarrass myself even more, let's move on from that tangent . . .

Thanks for the tips, Skull. I think I might do just that - go to bed early for a few days until the crankiness wears off. I wish I could say that it starts tonight, but I already caved and bought some vodka on the way home from work. It's time for another forced AF time. I barely even noticed I was living AF before, that's how easy it got for a while. So I'll just take it on faith that this is part of the ebb and flow of cravings, and a few forced AF days can correct that.

Sam - Sorry you had to change your username! You mentioned theanine. Isn't that the weirdo amino acid that hangs out in green tea? I know I've heard of it before. Guess it's time to go do a little more researching. And exercise? I was already doing that, but let it fall away. I need to get back into it pronto!

I'm not happy with the fact that I drank yet again. I don't think I've undone my progress, but I need to get back on track with my new habits. I had been walking each day, but since drinking on Friday night, I have yet to go on a single walk. I need to get back on track. It starts tomorrow. I hope you all have a great night :hug:

[bkyogagurl]

Hey Lost-

Just wanted to check in on you.. I'm sorry you are disappointed you drank but look at all the awesome you have been achieving!!!
gotta run...

Be back later.

[Lostinspace]

Thanks, bk. I'm disappointed by the fact that the cravings have returned more so than being disappointed in myself. Although there is a little of that, too, since I drank yet again last night even though I promised myself I wouldn't. Sigh. Well, today's a new day, as they say.

[bkyogagurl]

Lost-

Are you drinking as much or more than when you started? Maybe trying to set a tiny goal when starting to drink might help... Maybe something as easy as I will drink water a couple of times during my drinking session.. Or I am going to have just one less than I normally have just one... I have been trying this and have been coming up with some success..

I think you can ebb & flow on meds. Worst thing to do is beat yourself up girl.
Maybe it's part of getting where you are going....
At least you have had some AF days and feel those.

I woke up at 4am with tons of thoughts swirling thru my head. I have been exercising my mental muscle asking my family to respect me. I know. It doesn't sound like much but when someone *tells* you or assumes that you are to do something it's nice to say or ask them to
*ask me* instead of tell me.....

I'm going to try to lay back down & get a smidge more sleep.
Take care of you...

[Ne1]

Ah. I think I figured out why my name has been changed. I got locked out of my account in February and signed up with this username in order to contact the mods and get my account reset. Maybe that's why? They just signed up the last username from that email? I'll try to login as Neva Eva later. As much as I hated that username forrrever, it's home now.

Which is not at all why I'm checking in here. Two things: I've been thinking about you all day, Lis. How have the last couple of nights been? And I had this epiphany in the middle of a chocolate frenzy: Cravings aren't evil. Ya' know? I've always believed that my body is simply telling my brain that it wants something...Sadly, the brain (at least my brain) looks for the easiest way to achieve the goal. Need calories? Or comfort? Or sugar? Or a little boost? Guess what!? Chocolate to the rescue for all of those things! Woot!

And you're quitting smoking...Which does *something* in the brain that makes us feel good, fills whatever void, etc...Your body/brain still looks for easiest solution. Mine does too. I think I've learned (repeatedly) that booze doesn't really fill that function for me anymore. Part of it is quashing the habit with good stuff, at least initially. (I think?) Part of it is suffering the hangovers of a normal 40+ year old that doesn't drink. And part of it is that when I'm taking a lot of baclofen, booze doesn't work for me.

But if any one of those things weren't the case, I'm pretty sure that I'd drink when I needed to feel better in my body/brain. You know? And what I know works for me now is chocolate. And orgasms. Not in that order. just sayin' (Some people also recommend hot baths and warm milk, and exercise. They're right, of course. Whatever. The point is self-comfort. Self-soothing for those of us who have had too damn much counseling. You get the point, right?)

Just some babbledy-gook from me today. Lots of warm thoughts coming your way. xxoo

[Ne1]

Just read back a bit. Hiya, bkyoga. Sounds like you need a bit of soothing, too. Part of that is just what you wrote. It's hard to ask for and receive the support we all need. In sobriety and out of it!
Sorry about those 4am thoughts. I'm all too familiar with them. Very annoying way to start the day. Hope it turned out better.

Also, I miss Stuck. I don't care how busy he is. pfffft. WHERE ARE YOU?

[Lostinspace]

Thanks, bk. Your question made me feel a lot better because, no, I'm not drinking as much as I was pre-baclofen - actually nowhere near that much. So the bac really is still benefiting me, I'm just being hard on myself. And I'll try your suggestion of having water in between shots the next time I drink. That's a bad habit of mine - to not eat or drink anything until the whole bottle of vodka is gone. I'll probably drink less overall if I just force myself to take breaks from it (and will undoubtedly not wake up with such a nasty headache from dehydration). Fortunately, I won't have to test that out tonight because I rode out the craving and have made it home liquor-free

And I know what you mean about wanting people to give you the simple respect of asking you to do something, rather than just demanding it. It doesn't sound like a small thing to me at all. Even if it's something you would happily do without even being asked, being told to do that thing can be really enraging. Good for you for asking them for what you need!

I know cravings, by themselves, aren't evil, Ne. But they definitely can seem that way when I keep losing my resolve. It's funny (not really, it's actually pretty suckful) how as soon as we stop one feel-good habit, our brains almost immediately start looking for replacements. I was fine for the first two days after quitting smoking because all my energy was focused on getting through the cigarette cravings, and it almost felt like I was undergoing an experiment of sorts. But once I realized, in a real way, that this whole quitting thing was really for good, and is nonnegotiable, I started craving vodka and bourbon like mad, and suddenly chocolate was the only thing I wanted to eat - and LOTS of it.

It's especially strange because, normally when I drink, I not only have no food cravings of any kind, but I hardly eat anything at all. But on Saturday, I was doing "shots" of chocolate in between shots of vodka. It's like my brain just went into full-on craving freak out mode that day. I definitely need to be more proactive during this time to do other things that make me feel good. Exercise is a must. I've gone far too long without it already. And of course, orgasms are always good, too

At least, if nothing else, the cigarette cravings are finally starting to subside a bit. I'm still sucking on nicotine lozenges like my life depends on it. I'm also still going through the motions of smoking with a straw that I cut down to cigarette size and pretend it's a real cigarette. My coworkers all make fun of me for this, but it really does help! I gotta say, though, that those really urgent feeling cigarette cravings are already starting to fade a little bit.

And I miss Stuck, too I can certainly understand not having the time to check in here with the super busy schedule he has, but I really miss "seeing" him. Anyway, I hope you all have a great night :hug:

EDIT: I just noticed that all of the old posts from this forum are back - dating all the way back to 2006! I was afraid they had been lost forever.

[Ne1]

I feel the need to clarify my last several posts.

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS! It is amazing that you've quit smoking.

Sorry about the baclofen mini-rant a couple of days ago. It was a reflection of other things I was reading. (It makes me so sad, honestly, when there's stuff that I feel really detracts from people's ability to get healthy and contentedly sober. But I shouldn't have let it spew out here. I just don't have the energy to address it where it is.)

It also worries me to think that you might lose hope and faith that you're on the right track. I'm glad that's not the case. I find, too, that when I'm short on time I tend to be rather...insistent. ha.

The craving thing is a conundrum. Everything boils down to brain chemistry, right? Even our actions, thoughts and emotions dictate how our physical brains respond to stuff on a chemical basis. So when I'm scarfing chocolate I tend to think about it in terms of what I'm missing...What can I replace that with? (To be clear, not because I'm scared of eating a bunch of chocolate, but the sheer quantities I'm consuming are counterproductive at this point. Plus, like you, I tend not to eat and then get all of my calories from insta-fixes. I don't really eat pre-fab food, so chocolate it is.)

Cigarettes and booze fill some of the same receptors in the brain. Cigarettes actually kill more people, more quickly, than booze (assuming, I suppose, one isn't suffering from alcoholism). So it wouldn't be a good idea to start that again! But booze, as we know, makes daily life much more hazardous and difficult. But LIS, you're going to have to find something to fill that void. Regularly and without guilt or hesitation. Exercise is definitely a key part of the solution.

The other thing is the mind. I don't believe most of us can think our way out of an addiction, but it helps to really wrap our minds around the benefit rather than the bereft feeling. I am no expert on this, but I found Allan Carr's books an interesting read about this aspect. He suggests that we can overcome addiction just by altering the way we look at what we're doing. Not true in my case, but probably pretty helpful in general. I know that looking at things as positive changes the actual event, not just my perception of the event. Weird, but true.

I didn't realize that you were drinking regularly again. I don't know if my suggestion about riding it out was reasonable, in that case. The expectation that you might get sober at this level of baclofen might not be in line with the outcome if the cravings are daily and insistent. Just some food for thought about it.

Going to start my day even though it's the middle of the night. :/

[bkyogagurl]

Good morning ladies!

Ne- thanks for your kind words... Stretching my emotion wings can feel a bit awkward but good. Man you start your day really early. I woke up at 4:30 & that feels early to me.. Perspective huh? Hope you are having a fabulous day!!

Lost- just checking to give you a :victorious: and a virtual hug.. My hug icon is missing.
I hope you had a good night last night.

Gotta run kiddos around this morn be back soon..
And bake a lemon lime cake.. I gotta admit these sober morns are awesome..

[Lostinspace]

No need to apologize at all, Ne. I got what you were saying. And I'm sorry you had to start your day at 3am - that's way too early! I don't think I would say that I've gone back to regular drinking, only because that makes it sound like this has been going on for a while. My booze cravings only made a reappearing act this past Friday, and I've drank five times since then (including tonight). But overall, I was doing really well at this dose for two months. Quitting smoking seems to be the main thing that's screwing me up.

I still have some extra pills from way back when I was forgetting to, then stopped, taking it the first time around. My plan for now is that tomorrow I will temporarily bump up my dose to 180 mg, along with a period of forced AF time - no excuses! Then in three days, if I still feel the need, I'll go up to 200 mg and stay there for a week. I know that's not long at all, but I'm hoping that if I do something to shock my system, and break up the renewed habit, that I can go back to finding success at 160 mg. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, and if it turns out that 160 mg just won't work for me in the long run, then I will supplement my prescription with an online pharmacy order. I've always kinda had doubts about this dose working out for me long term. But if there's any way that I can get by with just my prescription, then I would much prefer to do that, for many reasons.

I've heard of Allan Carr's book on quitting smoking before, probably on this site. I should check the library to see if they have it. Anything that might help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the recommendation!

Thanks for the hugs, bk. :hug: right back atcha. Sober mornings truly are great. I'm glad you had a good start to the day. And 4:30? My god, you ladies are putting me to shame. I have to wake up at 6 for my job and I whine about that.

Anyway, all in all, I have a lot of hope that things will get better soon. My cigarette cravings were down today. I didn't even use my fake cigarette today because it just seemed silly and unnecessary. My alcohol cravings were also quite a bit lower today, though not low enough that I didn't feel the need to stop by the liquor store. I think things may finally be starting to settle down and, one way or another, I'll fix it. I hope you all have a great night :hug:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

As usual, that sounds like a very good and reasonable plan, LIS. Where were you when I was titrating up? Really great that the cravings for cigarettes are dissipating. I am seriously jealous, and feel bad about it. I wish I hated cigarettes as much as I hated drinking against my will.

Stalteri, I think I'm the only person in the multiverse who hasn't been able to switch to vaping. Very, very frustrating. I have all the gear, but just can't buy in. <sigh>

Slept in today until 5:30. Anything after 4:30 is enough sleep, so yay me! I realized that on the day I woke up with bells on at 3 am (a set back because I've been sleeping pretty well) my husband made me a giant mocha at around 3 pm the day before. Who can resist a homemade mocha? So once again, it's all his fault. And no more coffee for me in the late afternoon!

It's my husband's birthday today and I'm very excited about it! Lots of good stuff, followed by fancy dinner tonight. Hope you guys are looking forward to a good day, too.