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    Goooood morning, everybody!

    Clinical was fun. (Thanks for the thoughts. I'm sure they helped!) At one point I was watching the heart monitors and got very excited because I thought one of my patients was having very erratic heart beats, (great for me, not so much for him!) and it turned out to be a loose lead. Lots of stupid mistakes like that, and somehow I'm fine with it all. (I'd bring bribes, Stuck, but I like to get all up in everyone's business. Otherwise it's just too boring. Give me the grunt work, but let me poke some people with sharp things, too!)

    A couple of things have me reenergized about school and nursing, but I think the primary one is being able to go to UVA. Y'all, that would be amazing. I've got to step up my game a little to make sure that happens, and so it's a good goal on lots of levels.

    SO AMAZING about the car, Lis. Driving=Freedom, no doubt. There was a guy around here years ago, Lowcountryman, from Holland, who once suggested we should get on our bikes (and stop eating Whoppers) rather than relying on cars for everything. The fact that he couldn't imagine the limitations of not having a car, and I (we) can't imagine being able to live without one, was pretty funny. It's not like being in LA, either. When Ed went through it all, he also commuted via several buses for several hours everyday. Ugh. Our lives changed dramatically the day he got his license back. It was as much the mental part of it as it was the physical, too. I'm so, so, so happy for you. So can you drive now? Or you have to wait until this test at the end of December?

    Re meds: Have you tried the more traditional meds, Stuck? I swear, I think this place has done almost as much harm as good when it comes to medications. There is so much feckin' misinformation around here. I'm so grateful that I decided to learn about this stuff in a classroom, because I was really mislead by my own internet searches and the stuff I read here. (Honestly, it's one of the reasons I have such a hard time with the things that the beaver-like-animal posts. He's just wrong about so much crap, and smart enough to make it sound like he knows what he's talking about. SSRIs are not evil. Anti-anxiety meds are not all addictive and horrible for you. Withdrawals don't need to exist. It is worth listening to the actual doctor, and letting them tell us what they think, given the fact that they actually spent years and years in school for this stuff. I'm not excusing the pathetic nature of mental health care, or being apologetic for the abysmal treatment alcoholics get at the hands of some (many) professionals. I am suggesting that what we think we know, based on random stuff from internet searches, might not be accurate. (Please see the top two threads about medications on this very forum. Puhlease. So much malarkey.)
    Anyway, I know this is pissing you off, but I'm going to write it and post it anyway. It's hard to see people suffering from untreated anxiety and depression, and looking for a way out, without trying the things that are most readily available and easiest to try. (Beta blockers, for instance. Not a bad choice. Just sayin' my friend.) All this goes for you, too, Bk. No reason not to try something, you know? The 1% or 5% (or even 10%) of people who share their horror stories might be valid, but don't represent the vast majority. (Unlike with baclofen, in which the vast majority have some pretty difficult side effects, whether it's the titration or the associated anxiety or the pill itself. Who knows? Lis is an exception, and should be noted for what she is doing [and not doing] in order to have such a positive experience. Nice job, again, Lis.)

    Look, there might not be an easy answer or a quick fix. But there might be, and you can't know until you try.

    I'll lay off the discussion for another several months. Just had to say my piece/peace.

    On that happy note, I'm going to go find the rascal husky and see what kind of trouble she's getting into before we go on a loooong walk in the cold, dark morning. I figure if you can actually leave your house when it's below freezing, I can get some exercise when it's above. We'll see. I may wimp out.

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      Didn't wimp out, but only because I wanted to come back and post that fact. 3 cold miles while the sun came up.

      Thanks!

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        Good morning, all. Glad the clinical went well, Ne - and the possibility of UVA is very exciting! It's awesome that seeing a new goal has re-energized your motivation for school. And Lis, the car is HUGE. It will open up so many opportunities for you, professionally, socially, and just happiness-wise to be back among the land of everyone else. I never could get into biking, though I never could get into Whoppers either, so maybe that evens out?

        Ne, nothing you said pissed me off. I really would like to avoid SSRIs, because that's just... well, something I want to avoid. But I did get some referrals for psychiatry, and I am going to start looking for somebody to see. When I have time, which is never, and I'm not really in a rush I guess. But I *am* going to look and make some appointments and see what's what. If everything gets attributed to alcohol, then the traditional options they're going to go to are naltrexone and gabapentin, neither of which I'm interested in (and I already know gabapentin doesn't do anything for me). Most of my anxiety is alcohol-related, only some of it is underlying. As for the emotional stuff, I just don't know. But it's not like it's a life-threatening depression if it's even depression at all.

        Saw my doc yesterday, and as soon as I brought up oxytocin that's when she started shuffling me off to psychiatry. As for my labs, I need to lose weight and get more exercise and eat fewer simple carbohydrates and that's all. And apparently last January the blood pressure guidelines were changed - so even my blood pressure is now "normal" except when I'm in crazy-accute withdrawal. This is not to say I'm not concerned about it anymore - after all, just moving the goalposts of "normal" doesn't suddenly make everything fine but whatever.

        Anyway, lots to do today. Didn't sleep all that well. But I do now have a few AF days under my belt and feeling more or less all right overall. Looking forward to a productive weekend, hopefully. Have a good one, everybody!

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          I woke up grumpy. Didn't help that the pup jumped on my head. She has a new trick: hop on top of pop. All four paws on top of him from one fluid jump. It is really fun and funny. But not at 5am and on my head. Sometimes she forgets that he's the fun one, and I'm the one for all other things. (I cannot fathom how he stays completely entertained playing tug, or with an annoying squeeky toy, for as long as he does. I've got about 10 minutes, tops.)

          Then the damn dog ate my sunglasses. Seriously. It's like she's trying to make me send her off to military school or something.

          Too much going on around here this morning to sit still. Be back later.

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            I'm sorry you woke up to so much unpleasantness, Ne. But I'm so happy to hear you're feeling reenergized with school. Having a goal like UVA to work towards is a great motivator. That would be really awesome I'm sending many positive wishes your way that it happens. And good job on pushing yourself out the door for a chilly, early morning walk yesterday.

            And yeah, the idea of not having a car in most places in this country is laughable. Unless you live in a major city, it's not really doable. Right now, I can only drive when my husband's in the car with me, since I just have a permit. So the car's not doing much for my freedom yet. It's more just to get practice for the road test. Plus, I have to have a car fitted with an ignition interlock just to be able to even take the road test. They don't let you get one after the fact. But in five and a half weeks, I'll have my freedom back.

            I'm sorry your doctor wasn't able to help you directly, Stuck. But that's good that you got a referral for psychiatry, at least. It's always tough when you see a new doctor for the first time. I think a big part of why my doctor was so willing to try bac with me was because I had already been seeing him for a few years, he was well aware of my way out-of-control drinking history, and he knew that nothing else had worked for me.

            When you do get your appointment, make sure you stress that gabapentin did nothing, and be firm in your reasons for not having any interest in Nal. It might help if you mentioned your experience with bac, that you did reach indifference before and know it's possible, but you just can't take it because of unbearable side effects. They'll probably be more understanding if they know that you've had "positive" (i.e. anti-craving success) experiences in the past, and that you've done your homework. Otherwise they might just brush you off as a difficult alcoholic, who doesn't want to listen to medical advice.

            Anyway, that's great that you had a few AF days and are feeling pretty good. I hope you got some good sleep last night.

            bk - I hope you're doing alright :hug:

            So last night I drove my husband to go out for dinner to celebrate. I then came home and passed out. But not from drinking, just because it's been such a long week. I was so happy to have a chance to relax that I went right to sleep. Anyway, today I'll be driving him to his friend's house, a few towns away, so more driving practice to come. Plus many more things I have to get done. I'll be back later. I hope you all have a great day!

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              Morning!
              I've got too much to say, and not enough time to say it in so I'm just popping in this morning.

              All well 'round these parts. For the humans, anyway. Poor pup is still in the doghouse. Trainer warned us that they start to chew again about now. And also stop obeying the simplest commands. Didn't believe her. She was right. pffft. My dog, who has been in "training" since she was 12 weeks old, will not even sit. Acts like she's never heard the word before.

              I even got gussied up and went to a birthday party last night. Good friend is turning 30 this week. Fun and still in bed by 11, which is about perfect for me. I left the late night and the shots to the young 'uns and we split when their parents did. Seriously. ah, how times change.

              Hope you guys are having a nice weekend.

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                Well, so the AF bit didn't last, shockingly. I decided to take Friday afternoon "off," and went to the main downtown library. There's this book by one of my favorite writers that is published under a pseudonym, and it's out of print, and I've seen it online for about $60. That's too much to spend, but the library has one copy in their reference section. So I went down and read the first 100 pages of it there, and it was about time for the girl to be getting off work and she's just a few blocks from the library, so I texted and asked if she wanted to meet for happy hour.

                Happy hour turned into drinking the rest of the night, which wasn't terrible but wasn't great either. And so yesterday I kind of drank most of the day while watching college football and didn't even bother to shower until almost 9pm, and that was just so I could run down to the bar for a minute and then to the liquor store. She's not mad or anything, but today I'm feeling pretty wrung out. Going to see about maybe not drinking today. Gearing up for the last couple weeks of school. There isn't really anything to do - no class planning and all their assignments are in my students' hands, so except for a couple meetings the week after Thanksgiving I'm about done.

                So teaching is about wrapped up, but I still need to write this whole f**king chapter, and soon. Anyway, maybe getting back into a morning writing routine will be helpful. I'd planned to start that this weekend, but well, you know. Hope everyone's having a nice, relaxing Sunday.

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                  Stuck, the most important question: Did you keep the book (check it out)? $60.00 bucks? -LOL-JK

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                    hmmmm. Gonna keep this completely innocuous so as to avoid attention.

                    Exam in a couple of hours, a couple of papers to write and then I'm free to hit the highways with the masses.

                    On the way back we're stopping by a storage unit to pick up the last of the stuff we need to bring home from the eastern shore. A foozball table! And a table saw!! Fun, fun, fun!

                    Figured out that unless something terrible happens, I really and truly will get into UVA next fall. And now that it's a reality, it's a bit jarring. I have to narrow down my focus and figure out what I think I want to do with my professional life. Again. The logistics are also a bit daunting. (Money, living arrangements, etc.)

                    In my previous life there would be absolutely no way it would happen. It wasn't even a pipe dream. It was not achievable. It wasn't just my personal challenges with college. It was also impossible to imagine that there was the time, money and support to make it a reality.

                    Because I got treatment, I have been able to make it happen.

                    Dream big.

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                      Yo Lis! You safe and dry?

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                        Yeah, I'm safe and dry, Ne. Sorry I didn't stop by much this weekend. I've been in a weird place recently and have been having trouble posting again.

                        Stuck - I'm sorry you were feeling so crappy yesterday. Try not to worry about breaking the AF streak. This is always a two steps forward, one step back, kind of process. I hope you're feeling better today.

                        Ne - I hope your exam went well. And that's so exciting about UVA!! It's awesome that your life has changed enough to make this a reality. And yeah, it's always a little daunting when you realize that an idea you've only fantasized about is suddenly about to happen. There's gonna be some planning and other un-fun stuff. But when you get through it, it will be amazing.

                        I drank today, for the first time since last Wednesday. I'm not sure what's going on with me, but I hope it clears soon. I've been in a funk the last few days. Not much else to say. Anyway, I hope you all have a great night :hug:

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                          I know what you mean about feeling blah, Lis. Me too, this whole weekend. I posted about that, so no need to recap it here, but yeah. All-day drinking Saturday and then just felt like crap all day yesterday, and didn't feel so hot today, either. I don't even know what it is, I feel like I can't breathe. Man, I know I gotta quit smoking but this is ridiculous. I exercised today, 1/2 an hour on the stationary bike while catching up on some reading. Went for a long walk yesterday, too. Anyway, going to a concert tonight with the girl. I'm trying to get pumped up about it - it's this new LA band, they only have a couple songs on YouTube but they freaking rock. The girl found that they're doing a free show tonight and she got us tickets. She's awesome like that, even when I'm playing songs on YouTube while I'm drunk.

                          Anyway, popped a half ativan like I do when I feel all f**king tense and my muscles hurt and I think I can't breathe even though I'm breathing fine. Yeah, the lingering acute withdrawal no doubt. I feel much, much, much better. Still not like I'm actually *excited* to go to this show that I really do want to go to, but not anxious. Hell, I'm almost relaxed enough to crave a drink. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Oh well. Lots of dissertation writing to start tomorrow. Hope everybody is having a good night.

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                            Gooood morning.



                            I have to admit I got a little concerned that no one was posting! Like, have I done something? Is everyone okay or has something nefarious happened to all three of you??? (Bk, sister, where are you?)



                            The exam went fine, thanks. More than one thing would have to go horribly awry for me to mess it up now. It really takes the pressure off, as you might imagine. (And there was a time that I would have been concerned that they would all happen...But I know better now. Focused and steady wins this race.) I don't mean to be bragging, and I'm almost embarrassed that my goals are so mundane, but damn, I'm rather proud of myself. And still amazed (even after 3 1/2 years) that my life has changed so much. Being able to pick and choose my own future, based on my own work and previous (positive) decisions, is new and novel. I'll also admit it's not without a bit of remorse because I couldn't do it when I was younger because I was so sick.



                            Which brings me to something that I've been avoiding posting for a while. For me, trying not to drink, with goals related to limiting or moderating what I drank and when, was akin to a wish and a prayer. The research and science (and many decades of anecdotal evidence) backs that up. If someone is a hard-core-drinker, but not necessarily an alcoholic, then maybe there's a chance they can wish and pray and plan the drinking away. By and large, those people don't end up on the meds threads of MWO.



                            The people I've met here have the same brain dysfunction that I do, the disease, and it calls for treatment. If this was a forum for support for people with diabetes, then this would be the place where people got information about medications to treat that disease. And if there were people who tried repeatedly to stop eating the things that they knew were going to kill them, perhaps slowly but irrevocably, but weren't willing to take the medications that everyone knows treat the disease, then it wouldn't be worth much for support or legitimate information. Right?



                            So say a particular diabetic, one that isn't maybe as sick as some others, sets it up to eat only unhealthy stuff on the weekends. (There are lots and lots of diets exactly like this. "Cheat days"...) We know three things about diets like these. The first is they don't work. The second is that they are still very harmful. They don't treat the underlying cause or the symptoms. The third is that there isn't really any control. The control is a myth, a delusion, that the mind rationalizes into belief. The result is often bingeing, but the mind doesn't see the pattern. Only outside perspective can see the pattern. I see the pattern. It pains me to watch, but more importantly, it's sad to see when I know that there are solutions.



                            Say another diabetic suggests that all of the known treatments are really unhealthy and/or a grand pharmaceutical conspiracy, despite the fact that these treatments have helped millions of people, are safe, and work effectively for the vast majority. (This is also pretty common!) This particular diabetic is shocked when he can't get his blood sugar under control, but continues to try ineffective methods to achieve health and well-being. (Also very, very common.) It's the same kind of mind game, with the same kind of results. Nothing changes and the person stays sick and unhealthy and unhappy.



                            The too long, didn't read is this: It is virtually impossible to get well without treating the disease of addiction. Trying to moderate it, or control it, without completely changing everything to focus on that one thing, is like trying to wish or pray it away.



                            Looking for solutions that are "outside of the box" when one hasn't tried things that are inside doesn't even begin to make sense. It is a superficial cover for wishing that things weren't the way they are. You might not be able to see through it, but I can. So will any doctor, or other professional, from whom you might enlist the support. Oxytocin? Based on what? A post doc's dissertation research? (And who wouldn't love a good dose of oxytocin? Pun intended.) Guess what actually works? Lexapro (SSRIs). Beta blockers. Other anti-depressants.



                            Don't think you're depressed or have anxiety? (Despite an abundance of evidence!) You know how you feel when you take an anti-anxiety medication? That's how life should feel. It's called normal. Just because you can't take the one that you're used to taking doesn't mean that there aren't ones that are effective (more effective) than the one you're occasionally taking, Stuck. And if/when you decide to get treatment, and actually start to heal and get well, it will have to be on someone else's terms. You'll have to get and follow an actual prescription.



                            Gabapentin didn't work? How do you know? Did you take it as prescribed or were you expecting the effect you get from Ativan? You don't want to take Nal? Why not? It might not be THE most effective drug, but it dramatically increases your chances of getting well. And perhaps, if you actually enlisted support and treated all of this other stuff you have going on, you would find that your reaction to baclofen was dramatically different. I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that you will never know until you actually make the decision to get well. Still don't think you're depressed/miserable/alcoholic? hmmm. Okay. There aren't any solutions to self-imposed cages, my friend.



                            I know this is too long, and too obtuse, and really none of my business. Except that these are meds threads, and I'm here to offer support and information based on facts. I can't, in good faith or good conscience, sit quietly reading the same stuff that I know keeps people sick for years and years and years and years and years. Every now and then I have to do what I'm supposed to do, and give feedback and information.



                            I like you guys a lot. I want to be friends. Moderation doesn't work. Medications and treatment do work. I hope you'll make a decision to get better, get help and get well.



                            Lis, back with you in a bit.



                            Love,

                            Ne/Karen

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                              Ne,

                              Wow and thanks for your post.

                              Congratulations on your life going so well and your ability to see it. What a difference baclofen has made for many of us.

                              Stuck, I've been thinking of you. I second what Ne says. And hi LIS.

                              It's good to be back here--I think. I had repeated log in issues and I felt some peace in not being on here but I missed some of you. Happy slightly early Thanksgiving.

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                                Hi, Kronk. Thanks so much. Happy thanksgiving to you, too! Nice to see you here. I understand, and commiserate, about participating! It's not always easy, but it has a value.

                                I came back to reread what I wrote because I'm concerned about how it will be received. I read an excellent post on another thread, written by Palladium, about treatment. The thread is one of the ones that makes me throw my hands up in frustration and despair. But Palladium's post is the antithesis of the misinformation and antagonism found on that thread. It's definitely worth reading and rereading. Especially if you can do it without reading all of the other drama on there.

                                I've been thinking in lieu of a progress thread, and some of the questions I do get asked by PM that it may be useful to post a summary of my experience and success with Naltrexone and the Sinclair Method. Since I'm pretty poor at keeping journals if anyone can fill in any gaps for me that would be most appreciated. I


                                I'm about to get on the highway with all of the others...And will be without wifi for the week. <sigh> Will still be checking in, of course.

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