Here we go again

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Writing here also counts, I think, as helping ourselves and helping others. Isn't Lis a newbie? And there are plenty of others, myself included, who find things to think about that reinvigorate my life from what is posted here.

See what happens when I don't post? ha. Later, gators.

[Lostinspace]

Hi Dizzy. I think you’re right that anxiety is both a cause, and symptom, of alcoholism. I know it definitely has been for me, and many others I’ve talked to. I’m currently prescribed seroquel for sleep. It usually works, although during this very stressful period of my life, it’s been very hit and miss. I tried trazodone in the past and, unfortunately, it didn’t help in the slightest, even at fairly high doses. I’ve never heard of valium and clonazepam increasing libido. They didn’t for me, but I’m glad you got to have those side effects

I’m glad you had at least an alright time in Vegas, Stuck. That must’ve been weird with the role reversal of seeing your girlfriend drunk. (Or maybe it’s just me. I’ve never been with a man who could rival my bad drunkenness for even a single occasion). I’m sorry your first day back was so tough. Hopefully the anxiety has passed and you’re feeling better today.

Ne - you’re so right. There *are* many things to be positive about. I’m just having trouble seeing them in their full glory at the moment. I guess I’m a little emotionally dead right now, thanks to booze. Outside of that, there’s the intense negativity in my head (anxiety, shame, guilt, etc., etc.). I don’t know what the answer is. Too much is going on to figure it out right now. I had to work an unbelievably long day, through no one’s fault (my coworker had an emergency appendectomy).

Anyway, I don’t know what the hell to say at this point. My brain is turning more and more to mush the longer I type. I had a long day, I drank, I have nothing to offer anyone. I suck. I hope you all have a great night regardless.

EDIT: I'm sorry, Ne. I'll get back to you with a thoughtful reply as soon as I can. I just don't have it in me at the moment.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Aw, Lis. My post was over the top. No worries.

Just stop saying and thinking you suck. It is what it is.

Hope tomorrow is better and easier.

[Spiritfree]

A signing off the "Med Thread Section" of MWO:

Lost, as you know, I originally deleted my first post regarding signing off the Med Thread Section of the forum -especially "your" thread. However, after some thought, I decided that my deleting "that" post was just as wrong as what is going on in this thread -I felt even worse for not posting.

You see Lost, between the comments that I have received and the posts being made on this thread, one can only wonder what is really going on. Well, it is my opinion that what we are seeing/reading is the result of alcoholism -many times at its worst. I am not the only one who sees this reality; most others that I communicate with just don't have the time or enthusiasm to get involved.

Now, what do I mean by "seeing the results of alcoholism on this thread"? Well, first let us look at the posts. You consistently speak of your desire to achieve the all "allusive" switch and then you will be fine. Meanwhile, you keep drinking -and feeling anxious, depressed, etc. You speak of taking more or less baclofen in order to achieve your perceived results. Ne is all too glad to step in offer further advice and counseling regarding dosage. In the mean time, you keep vomiting, losing teeth and hiding your alcohol problem -all in hopes of finding a magic "switch" so that you won't experience your current results. The sadness herein is that none of your "friends" are willing to step up (openly) and tell you the truth. Their lack of forthrightness is not helping you to achieve your freedom from alcohol. Lost, you mean well and want to help others -perfect. But first, you have to help yourself. Somehow, you have to realize and accept that alcohol is killing you. When you do finally get to drive, you have to blow into a machine first. Your teeth are rotting out as a result of alcohol. You have to give yourself a real chance to survive and writing words on MWO is not going to cut it.

Next, let us look at another fellow member who is in deep alcohol trouble -Stuck. In no way do I think that a sober Stuck would publically post some of the things that he does. Furthermore, I do not think that a sober following member of Stuck would allow or support his viscous and cruel posts. Do you? Do you ask your husband to read some of Stuck's comments? Ne, if you had kids, would you want them to read some of the things that a non sober Stuck posts? Heck Ne/Kronk/Lost/BKY, do all of you find his comments ok -as long as they are attacks on me? Or anyone that you don't like or agree with? Ok, lets just review a few of his recent comments to me:

From Stuck to Me:
"I'm having another drink right now, actually, and enjoying it. In about 20 minutes or a half hour or so my girlfriend will get home from work, and then I will have sex with her. Depending on how I'm feeling, it will most likely be kinky sex. Then I will go to the bar and hang out and then I'll come back home when I've gotten my fill of socializing. I'll slip into bed, and probably finger my girl to orgasm while she sleeps. I don't know, that's just how I roll.

And all this time? You, sir, will still be an ignorant asshole."

And then, we have a follow-up post by Stuck:

"GO FUCK OFF AND DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS AND POST ELSEWHERE. I fucking hate you, Spirit, because you are trying to poison a space that has been helpful for Lis, and for BK, and now for Kronk and Dun. So go fuck off and die, dude. You are not welcome here and you are toxic because you are actively trying to harm people."

Well, does this in any way allow you to feel ok -about yourself, about the forum? And look, to add insult to injury, we have bkyogurl thanking and liking Stuck's post about me going off and dying and then we have TERRY K thanking Stuck for his post about what he is going to do to his (Stuck's) girlfriend. Fellow members, what is going on here? Fellow female members, what would you think if you were Stuck's girlfriend/wife and read what he had posted?

TERRY K –you are perceived to be a very intelligent, forthright, and upstanding member. As such, why do participate in silly name calling and patronizing? Perhaps you are four years “indifferent” but you are not sober –or at least your words do not reflect sobriety.

NE – Presumably, you are a professional nurse –on the way to being a doctor. Are you responding in a way that you would want to be responded to? Perhaps your need to feel liked and have virtual friends impairs your higher and best judgment? I don’t know NE. I am just sad to see you stand by and accept what is going on. You remain a perceived leader and yet you sit still.

What I believe that we have here -especially on this thread, is true disconnect. We have highly intellectual and good people falling victim to a deadly disease –alcoholism. Pats on the back and attaboys are destroying the lives of a few. This does not have to continue, but each of you have to take a step back and consider the consequences. If nothing changes, then, well, nothing changes.

Until next time, I truly do wish peace for each of you.

SW333

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Morning, everyone.
<sigh>
Man, the pressure of school is intense. So intense that I'm having a hard time completing anything. It's so damn frustrating. I think my last post, about all the things I'm gonna do and we should do, was born of that frustration. I am so damn tired of feeling like I'm not accomplishing what I should be or want to be accomplishing. And no! I don't feel like I'm asking too much of myself. I just...really want to start marking things off the list. Ya' know? This time of year doesn't help at all, either. pffft. I suppose my xmas spirit will start on Dec. 17th when school is done.

I'm sleeping better, though. I wake up for an hour in the middle of the night, and then go back to sleep for another 3 hours. It works, I think.

I'm really glad you're using some meditation techniques, Lis. I still count my breaths when I get particularly stressed. And I'm listening to the Jon Kabat-Zinn meditations again. I think it's helpful?

One more damn paper to write. And ~8 hours of work until I'm completely done with my statistics class! There's that. Several papers, a test and an exam for nursing...The fat lady sings in a week. Thank all that matters!

Hope it's a good day. I'm going to do my best to make mine productive.

[kronkcarr]

Reggie, I'm glad I saw your post before you deleted it.

Ne, I sighed too.

I'd asked for help in a previous post here and didn't get a response. I was starting back to my old ways of drinking one or two at home alone. Pallidium and Skull's posts on other threads brought an answer. Otter's PM to me brought the same. I have to care enough about myself to not drink alone. LIS, I guess that's what I've been trying to say to you.

I was going to respond to spirit with a smh but then I heard my favorite line from my former therapist: What did you think would happen? All of us here are posting pretty much the way we've always posted. So...

[dundrinkn]

Hi All. Wow, that was quite an implosion. I had been hopeful, but I also hadn't been following the poster at all prior to joining this thread. Guess I knew what I was doing. Taking a deep breath and continuing to move on...

While I agree that ultimately it's about caring enough about myself not to drink alone, initially and for a very long time following that initial day, it is just grinding out some AF days. LIS, if you can put some AF time together, you will start to shed the guilt and shame. You may have to gut out the anxiety for a bit, but that should ease too. I am somewhere around 50 days AF, and somewhere between days 40 and 50, things have lightened for me tremendously. I got a lot from Skullbaby's recent post on that thread. I think he is over a year AF, and said that it took a while for the anxiety to lessen. You are at a high enough dose that if you can just eek together a few weeks AF, you might feel a great relief. Worth a try...

Kronk, I think I tried to answer, but ended up just agreeing with you and saying I had the same problem. Ha.

Have been getting some work done this week which needed to happen, so back at it.

[StuckinLA]

Huh. Not sure if I'll be able to be around for a while, guys. I've been banned until 12/23, based on EDIT. Anyway, my LA account will probably be banned next. Just wanted to send out my love and support to everyone on the boards, particularly through the holidays, when stress tends to run high. Mad love, peeps.

EDIT: I wrote that the ban was for one thing, which I wrongly assumed. I should have, in the first place, simply said what the login screen said:

"Based on:
No Reason Given"

[terryk]

Hey everybody, and Hi Lis - I think this is my first post in this thread, and I just wanted to drop by and say that even though I don't say too much in the support threads (the touchy, feely thing isn't really my forte, plus I know enough not to swing my big personality around in other people's safe spaces), I do read just about all of the posts written in the Meds section, and I've followed this thread from the beginning. I know that there's a lot of love and care here and I wish you ladies (and you, Stuck) a safe, healthy, and happy holiday season. -tk

[skullbabyland]

Hi guys- just catching up on this thread and thought I'd chime in a bit, as I know a thing or two about anxiety as it relates to alcoholism and sobriety. Well, more accurately, that is pretty much my whole LIFE in one way or another.

I've written about it much on my thread in much greater detail if anyone's interested, so I'll just say here that anxiety, both generalized and especially social, has been my gigantic problem almost all my life. I thing it's very much tied in to negative belief systems that I've internalized for many reasons over my life. It's also tied in to what Eckhart Tolle says is mind/ego/pain body stuff (it's all related, or different names for the same things). For a long time drinking provided relief from it, but then it also made it worse. More and more I relied on alcohol, the worse the anxiety became. Classic addiction stuff. For me I've come to realize that I had both anxiety as the cause, and then added anxiety on top of it due to drinking. Just a metric fuckton of anxiety. Life sucked.

For me, I had to get significant sober time before this started getting any better. I tended to feel little bursts of relief, first at about 2 weeks, then 4, then 2 months, etc. And this was in addition to the yo-yo or rollercoaster of all the hard times/sad emotions too. That plus all the social gatherings etc. that I couldn't get out of but just had to white-knuckle through it sober. No ways around it... it's just hard as shit. For me, I knew I would keep falling backwards unless I left myself no option to do so (my medication protocol, again info is in my thread). Then, I just allowed and accepted that sober life to just fucking suck. Things that helped a little were lots of baths, reading MWO and other health stuff, early bed times and lots of couch/TV.

But slowly but surely, life didn't suck ALL the time. When I added exercise and meditation, I often felt genuinely good. For me, I'm still working through a lot of this anxiety stuff- it's a lot of work to deprogramm decades of disfunctional thoughts and feelings. So now I'm in the midst of all that work.So, now self-recovery is almost a full time job. Weekly therapy/support group, daily meditation, listening to audio positive affirmations, reading Tolle, good nutrition, exercise daily, these are all requirements for me to not feel like a total looney stresscase all the time, every day. I've occasionally received some nice comments expressing that people are impressed with my efforts, which is nice to hear, but for me my efforts are really just not optional, because the alternative is to collapse and implode and just feel like shit all the time.

The good news is that for me all that effort is worth it. I'm discovering my strength slowly but surely. It takes time, and in my opinion, for people like us, it takes sober time. I know some people can have a few from time to time with the help of baclofen etc. but that's not me, not right now. Maybe someday. But I just know that even one beer will hurt me- a beer a week will become a binge a week then a binge every other day and it will pull me back into alcoholic drinking, and quickly.

Anyways hope that was helpful. I'd encourage us all to keep in mind that for most of us, extended periods of fully sober time can only help.

[Lostinspace]

Ne - Just so you know, I did take your advice and went down to 250 mg yesterday to see if that would help with the anxiety. And you’re right - it’s not defeat, it’s a temporary adjustment before I move upward and onward. I will also try to stop verbally beating myself up, and to replace those thoughts with positive ones.

School pressure really is very intense at times. I don’t miss it at all. And having that compounded by the stress of trying to get ready for the holidays at the same time is daunting, to say the least. But you’re almost done Hang in there, and try to focus on each thing you have to do, one at a time, until it’s all over. You can do this. I’m glad to hear you’re sleeping better. That will make everything so much easier.

kronk - I’m really sorry your question went unanswered. Personally, I just didn’t feel like I had any wisdom to share. At first, I felt compelled to offer what I thought might be helpful, but seeing as how I didn’t know what I was talking about, I decided to delete that part before posting. I’m glad you did eventually find the answers you were looking for.

I’ve never considered the idea of caring about myself enough to not drink alone, just because that’s pretty much the way I always drank. I’ve never had drinking friends, and my husband hasn’t tolerated my drinking since about a year or so into our relationship. But I guess I do need to start caring about myself enough not to abuse my body in general, even if my drinking is now markedly reduced from what it was. Hmmm.

dun - I know I really should push for some sustained AF time. I’m just so scared because I feel so emotionally inept at this point to ride it out. I’ll try to put my best foot forward, though. At least I didn’t drink today. And I’m so glad that things are getting better for you now.

Stuck - Wth?! Why would you be banned, especially over things that you didn’t even say?! I really hope that you’re still able to stick around with us before the end of the month. But if not, much love to you as well, during this stressful period of the year :hug: :hug:

terryk - Thanks for dropping in to say that. I can understand. Not everyone is comfortable with the whole touchy feely thing. I’m remarkably bad at it in real life (and probably nowhere near as useful to others here as I'd like to be, but I keep trying anyway). I think not seeing people face-to-face makes it less awkward to talk about feeling stuff. Anyway, I wish you a safe, healthy, and happy holiday season, too.

Skull - Thank you for sharing your experience. I guess there’s no way around it at first, is there? - the whole debilitating anxiety in sobriety thing. It’s been really inspiring to see all that you’ve done to make yourself whole in body, mind and spirit. I’m also beginning to dabble in mindfulness/meditation, and hope to soon get back on the regular exercise bandwagon. I already have the lots of couch/TV part down pat

A lot of times I just have such a hard time believing that it really does get better because my anxiety has been such a constant in my life, and drinking never seemed to me to make it any worse over time. I guess I’ll just have to take it on faith that with enough work on myself, it’s possible to become comfortable in this life, just like you’re becoming. I just have to work up the courage to face an AF life, and do the work on myself, long enough to get past the really sh*tty part.

Anyway, I didn’t drink today, despite having yet another massive panic attack at work this afternoon. I started feeling calmer/more together almost immediately after leaving work, and had no real cravings to speak of, but had to fight the urge to stop by the liquor store between my two buses anyway. Besides habit, there’s something about being in the blustery, snowy cold that makes a few shots of warmth seem all the more appealing. But I didn’t. Anyway, I hope you all have a great night!

[StuckinLA]

Good on you for the AF day, Lis. Seriously. Today has been panicky as heck for me, as well. No full-blown panic attacks, but I was shaky and really, really anxious. Part of that was because I was driving out to the office supply store to print out an application and then mail it off - and it's for the one I really, really, really want right now. And I couldn't sleep at all last night, I was up reading about the climate summit in Lima, Peru right now, and didn't get to sleep until after 2am and didn't sleep through the night even then. So, there was that when I woke up, too.

Anyway, after mailing off the application I went to a dentist appointment. Got back home and went for a jog - man, I run way better when I'm scared to sh*t. About 3 miles in 35 minutes, even on a route with extra hills.

See ya' all around. Take care out there. Hugs.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I'm in the middle of writing this damn statistics paper and needed a break so thought I'd pop in and see what's the what.

I clearly don't have a problem with the touchy-feely thing. And I'm moved to tears. Seriously. I choked up reading this thread. Now, keep in mind, I'm raw at the moment. (I think I have given myself hives. Seriously. Stress is stupid.) But you guys are really awesome. Thanks. :hug:

[skullbabyland]

Lis- just as a follow up to your reply- It really does get better. It really really does. But it takes a ton of work. But it's worth it.

[dundrinkn]

I am feeling pretty good. Getting some things done for work, Christmas. Not anxious, or depressed. But I'll be damned if yesterday I didn't really want to drink. And the thought of not drinking, of having that "ahh" feeling of relief with the first beer, made the future seem unbearably bleak. Didn't drink. Just used the old trick of putting it off. Today I am fine again. But was surprised at the strength of that feeling and all the crazy thoughts that went with it. Hang in the LIS. We can white knuckle it together for a bit.

Kronk... what's up? Stuck, did you really get banned? Wtf? Howdy to everyone else.