Here we go again

[kronkcarr]

Lis,

Habits are hard to break--drinking and the way we think about things. Your post reminds me of the term "awfulizing".

http://www.worktolive.info/blog/bid/187039/How-to-Stop-the-Awfulizing-of-Job-Stress

When I lived in Key West and went to AA I was worrying about chairing my first meeting. I obsessed over what I'd say, what would happen and on and on. Nothing I agonized about happened but a guy did come in late and sit in the front row. The problem was that he was naked! I went on as if all was normal. Some guys got him and dressed him in a skirt because that was the only thing available. What a powerful lesson for me. Nothing I imagined happened and I never imagined a guy would come naked.

I learned a method to help. I wrote all my thoughts down and then went through each one and labeled it true, false or I don't know. It takes time but it might break the pattern or give awareness.

When I started baclofen I also changed my thinking about many things. I took people's behavior personally. Then I realized that people do what they do because that's who they are. That was a huge relief. I looked at how I talked to and about myself. Somewhere in your post you said you suck. That might be a place to start.

I wish you and all else on this thread a peaceful weekend.

[Lostinspace]

Thanks, Stuck. I will keep working on my resume and try to have patience (not my forte, but I’ll try). I’m glad to hear that your girlfriend was moved from temp to perm, and that things are better overall. I wish we could hear more from you, but I know you’re unbelievably busy right now. Thanks for checking in :hug:

Ne - I’m sorry you have to put up with religious nuts, in addition to the usual small town crap. I grew up in that environment and, up north, my family was freakish. At least at work, I don’t have people shoving their religious ideals down my throat every day. That said, it’s still pretty awful. And don’t think that it’s *everyone* down south. More than half of my family lives south of the Mason-Dixon line, and all I ever remember is that they often talked more about the godlessness of people than about how everyone agrees with them! When you find the right work environment, you’d be surprised how great it can be. I have before, but then blew it, when people finally started to notice that I was coming in stinking like a drunk every day - oops!

Anyway, you’re right that I need to chill the f*ck out. Not that you said it in those words, but it does take time. I’ve just been dying to get another job for over a year now. Every time I looked, the promising possibilities were something I could never get to because of a lack of driving privileges. Now that I can drive, I’m starting to panic that it didn’t happen yesterday, because I’ve wanted it for so long. But yeah, it is like buying a house. I need to remind myself that it’s only in the last month that any possibilities are ACTUAL possibilities because I can get there.

And honestly, I don’t even know what to think about my anxiety being related to continued drinking/high doses of baclofen. I know that, in the past, whenever I was fully detoxed and sober, for however limited a time it might have been, my anxiety and panic attacks were actually far worse than they are now. The only exception is when I was *usually* sober for a couple months last summer, and on bac. I felt less anxiety than ever.

I’m just not sure what to think. My panic attacks and excessive, paralyzing anxiety were certainly not caused by alcohol in the first place. They were major (pre-existing) reasons why I took to alcohol so strongly, and why it got worse so quickly, especially after a later traumatic event. I’m not at all convinced they’ll go away just because I put the bottle down.

Oh, and good job on quitting before getting fired - haha! I’ve done that before, it sucks. But I’m glad it worked out for you in the long run. Really, you’re doing wonderfully, even if you don’t see it right now I know you probably won’t see this for a couple days, since you’re busy with your school work, but you’re doing great! Keep going! The end of your degree is almost here!

kronk- hahaha! I wish all my moments of panic, and feeling put on the spot, were interrupted by a naked man walking in and calmly sitting down, or something equally ridiculous. I bet that took the pressure off feeling like all eyes were on you

But you’re right. I do “awfulize,” or as one therapist from a million years ago told me I “catastrophize things.” I forgot all about that. It’s been so long since I’ve been in useful therapy (not court-mandated therapy, where I just say “yeah! I’m sober. I’m so happy with the direction of my life! Everything’s wonderful!). I do need to take another look at what I’m saying to myself. I like the list idea. I think I’ll try it. Thank you!

Well, I haven’t yet stuck to my AF word, but I still will - tomorrow! I think . . . Anyway, I hope you’re all having a lovely weekend so far

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I haven't done fuck-all today. It's so irritating. Except that I'm adept at ignoring all of the things.

Actually, what I have done is look at a bazillion pictures of porches and patios, so we can build one this spring. Not that we're going to, mind you, because the idea is to move and rent this place as soon as possible. Which isn't gonna happen if I don't get a job, which isn't going to happen if I don't graduate, which isn't going to happen if I don't pass my god damn class. And that is not going to happen unless I actually do some actual work.

But there's always tomorrow.

Those are very real causes for concern. Not because it's likely to happen to other people, but it has happened to me (or I have done it) every. single. other. time. (hmmm. Perhaps I'll take Kronk's very good advice and evaluate that. But I am pretty sure it's correct.)

Anyway. I hope you will really focus on your journey with booze and baclofen. Not hyper-focus in a bad way, but focused in a laser-like-wonder-woman-way. Prior to baclofen, I had never once had the experience of being comfortably sober. It was not a sudden, AHA! kind of thing. One day I looked around, after a mid-morning nap, and thought, hmmmm. Things are very different. Things are very...clear. And the whole goddamn wide world opened up. really.

You're almost there. If you keep doing the next right things for your health and well being, the whole world will explode into clarity. Until then, things are just going to be a little bit muddy. Oh, and it doesn't last. So grab on to it when it gets here.

How's the gym?

EDIT: I'm fairly certain that there are a number of people shaking their heads at me for going all pollyanna-meta and stuff. Whatevs. I'm thinking of you tk. And stuck. pfffffft.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I just found my superhero on Facebook. (Don't judge.) Anxiety girl. Able to jump to the worst conclusion in a single bound! ha.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Nothing I agonized about happened but a guy did come in late and sit in the front row. The problem was that he was naked! I went on as if all was normal.

I wish you and all else on this thread a peaceful weekend.

That is AMAZING. And hysterical.

And thanks for the well wishes.

[StuckinLA]

I'm jealous of you living in Key West, kronk. I've been there once just for an afternoon - kind of a day trip down from Miami - and basically just hung around Hemingway's house and the bar where he spent most of his time (Captain Tony's and Sloppy Joe's).

Anyway, yeah I am pretty crazy-busy these days but I think overall it's more crazy than busy. Stress is such a motherf**ker. I am glad the girl got moved to permanent status, and she is very happy about it, though in other ways she seems super-sad the last couple days. Hopefully it was job-stress or something that might lift - and not my drinking. Ah, well.

Still lots of work to do on my diss over the next month and a half. Blah blah blah, that's all that's going on. I'll keep dropping by but it kind of feels like I fell out of the conversation on this thread. It's nice to see you guys though, and great to see you all keeping in touch so much! Hugs all 'round.

[Lostinspace]

Ne - You're right! There's always tomorrow (which is now today, but anyway). I know that it’s a very real threat. I’ve fallen prey to self-sabotage myself far more often than the one time I didn’t (getting through my undergraduate program). That said, you’re also struggling with coming out of a depression and dealing with some intense anxiety, so it’s pretty normal to have your motivation come back in fits and starts.

You had a great end to the week, feeling like you were starting to get your school mojo back. It’s only natural that you’ll have other days when the work in front of you seems too daunting, and your motivation is still flagging as a result. I know that being behind on your assignments compounds the stress, and makes it that much harder to get going. But just keep putting one foot in front of the other and doing what you can. For now, try your best to focus on what you need to do this week, rather than focusing on the whole semester and what comes after, as hard as that might be.

I hope you’re feeling better today. Hang in there, sister :hug: Oh, and Anxiety Girl looks like she could’ve been my superhero throughout this life, as well :P

And I will be focusing more intently on stopping the booze. Today is February 1st, the day that I had not too long ago designated as my quit date, which fills me with guilt to realize because I’ve already drank today despite my best efforts. I don’t want to set a hard, fast rule, because knowing myself, when I fail to do something 100% I tend to give up entirely - as evidenced by my complete lack of trying to do an AF November after screwing up a couple days in.

But I will definitely be putting in a lot more effort on facing my fears (in all of life, in addition to the very related fear of complete sobriety - by forcing as many AF days as I can manage), as well as continuing to find ways to fill my life with good things, like the gym and practicing mindfulness.

The gym is going really well, all things considered. I’m still progressing pretty steadily in my strength training program, and I’ve recently begun to dabble with the treadmill again. I’m only up to running for 15 minutes at a time, with rest days in between. But hopefully my slower pace means that this time around I’ll be able to keep building up my time/speed with no further setbacks.

Stuck - Stress definitely is a motherf**ker! But you’re doing great and are so close to the finish line If your girlfriend is seeming down, just ask her what’s going on. She might just need someone to talk to about any number of things. She seems pretty open to talking to you about your drinking when it’s bothering her, so it’s likely your own guilt leading to that conclusion. And don’t worry about falling out of the conversation here. If I didn’t write novel-length posts each day, it would probably be a little easier to keep up You can join back in whenever you get a chance. It’s always nice to see you here!

EDIT: Deleted. I'll check in again later.

Anyway, I hope you all have a great night!

[kronkcarr]

It's all good, I no longer walk the dog on a Monday morning full of hopelessness, my dailiy anxiety is lifting due to personal developments work I've been able to do due to not being stuck in a weekly pattern of drunk weekends, mon, tues, wed spent trying to get body and mind back only to repeat on the Thursday. This has all gone.

So thank you for the reminder on this beautiful sunny day in Scotland of just how far I have came.

I started reading this thread at the beginning today. emily's post struck me. I remember getting up each morning and dragging myself through my days--like Groundhog's Day. What a relief now. It's not always great for me but it's so much better than it was.

Lis, what will motivate you to stick to your plan? Maybe this is a way to stick to your plan?

I didn't do it for the money I'd save but I have to say my finances have increased since I started baclofen. I bought a slick Nespresso machine this weekend and this morning I took great pleasure in my coffee. And I didn't go into bottomless debt to get it.

For me I've gained a feeling of confidence that's priceless.

Stuck, I was in Key West for 4 years. I loved the size of the town and had great adventures there. We lived on a sailboat and dropped out of the frenzy of life on the mainland. I drank lots there but also got sober there.

Ne, it was bizarre when that naked man walked in. I didn't know what to do so I pretended all was normal. It wasn't my finest moment but no one made fun of me.

I went to the beach yesterday after months of not. There's something about the sun, dolphins and a good friend that boosts my mood. I've had a hard time motivating and almost didn't go. Hopefully I'll remember that next time.

[kronkcarr]

As I was driving into work it occurred to me that my main benefit from baclofen is a much improved outlook. I used to be angry or just worn down. I am surprised at how my mood can change from moment to moment but now I'm clearer and can see how I feel. I have a chance of getting out of the hole of emotions I don't want.

[Lostinspace]

kronk - I envy the insights you’ve gained. I’ve tried to do some work on myself, including starting that exercise you suggested the other day, but it’s difficult for me. I honestly have no idea if my fears are realistic or not. I guess it’s because if I’m really *that* worried about it, then there’s obviously a large part of me that believes it’s true. It’s hard to know the objectively true from the false. I’m really struggling with that.

And I do agree that feeling alive and healthy in the morning (although I feel pretty damn good now compared to when I was drinking constantly and barely sleeping), and saving money, are both good things to motivate me - as an aside to whatever other motivator I can come up with. But those things, by themselves, are not enough. I really don’t know what it will take. It’s literally driving me to tears right now because I know I need to stop and I just can’t.

My biggest motivation at the moment is something I’m sure I’ll end up deleting again, like I did last night. Suffice it to say, even though my drinking hasn’t increased recently, the several shots that I do have each night interfere with my judgment enough that I’ve been making some terribly irresponsible decisions the last week and a half, regarding other mind-altering substances. As someone on probation, the consequences for what I’ve been doing are severe if I get caught, and include jail time, among other penalties. It hurts no one, but they don’t care. Hell, even drinking is a probation violation, even though it’s legal for most people, but that’s much easier to hide than what I’ve been doing.

I’m sure this post will also be deleted by morning because I’m not a big fan of self-incrimination, but I just want to get it off my chest. I’m terrified by what I’ve been doing recently. And the worst part is that I continue to drink (even today), knowing how it will wreck my judgment and might lead me to other bad choices (although I will fight myself with all I’ve got not to be a dumbass and give in again). I’ve tried with everything in me to cut out the booze, and it’s just not happening. If anything, it’s getting harder, the more emotionally frazzled I become.

What the hell happened to that relative indifference I experienced last summer?! It seemed that as soon as I quit smoking (which I’m proud of, and don’t plan on going back to), that relative indifference was almost instantaneously lost. And I can’t get it back - no matter how far up on bac I go. I’m terrified for both my immediate, and long-term, future.

I’m starting to think that maybe, if anything, I should cut back on the bac. Maybe Ne’s right that at least *some* of my anxiety is due to the high dose. I sure as hell haven’t seen any further benefit from going up so high. I’m sorry to puke my thoughts all over the screen like this, I just don’t know what to do. I’m feeling really desperate to stop my stupidity, and it’s just not working out for me. What else is new? I’m a life-long f*ck-up. Only, I really thought things would be different on bac. I’m definitely drinking way less, but it doesn’t matter. I’m still making the most bone-headed moves that a person could possibly make. I truly hate myself. I know I should try to be positive, but really, any outsider looking in would agree that I’m a total loser. This isn’t self-doubt, it’s just being realistic.

Sorry for all the negativity. Anyway, I hope you all have a great night.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Oh, Lis. I hear ya'. About all of it.

I gotta backtrack for a minute...
First of all, Stuck, I'm gonna guess that you're not feeling like you're not fitting in has less to do with us and more to do with what you have going on. We're here. Just like before. and hugs.

Lis, I meant to tell you that I also did not graduate from high school. I went to a private school, though, so they made me do some stuff over the summer in order to graduate. I had to write a computer program to prove my computer proficiency (on DOS, if I remember correctly! ha!). My brother wrote it for me. And my history professor made me write a paper on the book The Culture of Narcissism. Oy, what a bitch. Not that it was her fault, exactly. I loved her class, she loved me, then I just stopped doing any work...and (apparently) blamed everyone else. That's my guess, anyway. It really hurt my feelings, even though my mom (the psychologist) laughed it off as pop-culture-psychology.

Anyway. I'm pretty sure that I have never finished anything on time under normal circumstances. Some of us just gotta do things the different way.

Which brings me to the not drinking thing. I have a really hard time (believe it or not) encouraging people to jkktdp when they get up to the higher doses. It's not easy, and I don't know what I'm dealing with on the other side of this screen. But I only know one way to quit drinking, and be happy about it.

(Note to everyone else in the world: I am NOT saying baclofen is the only way to get sober and be happy about, for goodness sakes. That was my route, and for those that choose that way, I offer what I've got. Back to original programming, now. Whew.)

I had to go to ~320. I was pretty befuddled at that point until the magic happened and then there was clarity. I drank a lot less than you do, but for longer...Kronk only had to go to 80, but she drank less than I did and had long-ish periods of sobriety before and after she started. (I think I'm getting that right. If not, I'll stand corrected.)

I guess what I'm saying is that it's likely to take more baclofen. Or more steely resolve. I never could manage the steely resolve. I feel like I was much more like you are now. I couldn't not drink. So I drank and beat the shit out of myself for it. Especially since my side effects were horrendous. I don't regret it, but I can tell you that no doctor anywhere under any circumstances would have allowed it to happen. And if people knew, at the time, oh man. It would've been bad.

So I lost my shit a little bit only to find peace and equilibrium on the other side. Not everyone does, though. Back in the bad old days, we just said Go UP! I still think I didn't have any other options. I was never going to stop drinking on will power, no matter that it was the single most important thing in my life. So for me, very high dose baclofen seemed like the best (only) option. That's just my story.

About that early indifference, I had it too. I didn't lose it because I stopped smoking! (Egad, I'm at 2 packs a day right now. It's dissgusssting.) The magic numbers seem to be around 140 and 240...and over 300 for some few of us. I felt incredible relief at 140, but I never stopped drinking and soon returned to drinking much more. I almost lost hope and completely gave up in the high 200s. I sent an email to Levin, begging for help, and several days later he sent me an email saying that if it wasn't going to work for me I should go down slowly. In other words, give up. I was one of the lost souls that even the blessed baclofen couldn't help.

Nothing in this world motivates me better than anger...And a reason to be like, "Fuck you. You don't know me. I can do anything!" So I did. (Thanks, Lo0p, wherever you are.)

Maybe that's what I should do about school? Get pissed off about something. hahaha. God, it might take that.

About the other stuff. You could delete it but it doesn't really matter. (Really. Just don't go telling anybody in law enforcement about this place. Ain't no one going to find you here. But whatever...It's probably wise to not be a dumbass like me and let it all hang out. ha!) Anyway. You're freaking out, and for good reason, because your life is changing really dramatically really quickly.

Your license.
The gym, where you attempt to improve every time you go.
The overwhelming need to get a new job Right Now.
Trying meditation, or self-help stuff, and banging yourself up for not doing it well enough.
The fact that you are taking a high dose of a medication off label without a prescription.
Your relationship with your husband (which will see more huge adjustments as you get more sober).
And the fact that you beat yourself up for all of it, especially the drinking and smoking.

Chill out, sister. You are doing just. fine. Exactly where you are. Order some of that shit they sell to clean out your system, just in case. And then just go with what you are doing. (I can see the clean and sober folks cringing, or worse, right now. Whatever.) Until you can settle yourself, it's going to be very unsettling.

Mind you, it's easy for me to say. When you say all of those things to me...It's very hard for me to hear. And harder to actually listen and incorporate. But I've done this long enough to try.

I backed out of my exam this morning, and am going to take it on Wednesday because my instructor is a saint. The other stuff I didn't do I'll have to make up some way, somehow. That instructor just said we would talk next week...

Instead of spending the day working on this stuff and studying, I took geography quizzes. I can now name all of the countries in Europe, Asia and the Middle East. Africa's a pain in the ass. Way too many countries. (I know all the ones in this hemisphere, just in case someone out there was being judge-y.)

We'll struggle through together, Lis. (And stuck and kronk and dun and all the other peeps reading out there.)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

By the way, it was 40 lbs of birdseed, not 22 pounds. But the squirrels are SO happy, they spend all day on the bird feeders, so I expect that I will actually use it up eventually. In the meantime, it's in glass and metal containers. I hate to do it, but I'll put out poison in a week or so, just in case the meece don't figure out that the place is now inhospitable.

(I know you were dying to know.)

[kronkcarr]

Yes, I switched at the low dose of 80. So in many ways I have no clue what to say here. I see some similarities between me and Lis. I didn't hate myself but I sure didn't like myself. After maybe 10 years at work I realized I was good at what I did so that gave me something. I seemed to suck at relationships but it took me a long time to relate that to drinking and my terror at speaking up. I was always cheerleading people along and finding guys I could fix instead of looking at myself.

Having a kid might have kept me functional. I'm not sure. I was always at work when I should have been and never partied more than a day or night. I like to sleep too much.

Anyway...

[Lostinspace]

Thanks so much for the words of encouragement, Ne! I really needed that :hug: And I apologize for my emotionality. I went on for several days knowing that I need to cut out what I’m doing right now OR ELSE! But I didn’t, and eventually it built up into a supreme panic/crying spree. I didn’t do anything but drink last night. Here’s hoping that tonight will be the same.

Anyway, thank you for telling me that you also didn’t finish high school the normal way. It’s hard to deal with, both personally (because you feel like you’ve set yourself up for a lifetime of failure) and professionally. It took me a long time to get over the shame of having a GED instead of an actual diploma.

And thanks for your words of wisdom. I think, for me, I will continue trying with the steely resolve anyway, but really I think it’s time to go up again. You’re right that there are certain people who have to go to a dose over 300 mg to find relief. I just hate to have to be one of them. This stuff has obviously worked for me so far, at least in greatly reducing both my actual drinking, and my obsession with drinking, so I have no real reason to think I can’t go further - to a point.

It’s not even the cost (although that is definitely a BIG factor). I just worry about being on an insanely high dose for a number of reasons that I won’t expound on here. I know other people (not on MWO, but in the literature) have taken doses in excess of 400 mg with impunity. Why am I so stuck at 300? I really don’t know, but I will change it tomorrow. I’ve been at my current dose quite long enough. I’ll give 325 a try.

And my god. I’m glad you had a strong network here at the time that you contacted Dr. Levin. I can’t imagine being told, in so many words, “nope! Not gonna work for you!” That would’ve crushed me. I’m so glad you got angry enough to get better. And I really hope you can find something to get angry enough about to get you through school - I would give you the winky face here, but it’s just not the same, and I know you hate the emoticons on the new site - I do, too. So, it’s there in spirit.

But, as far as getting through school, how about getting angry at all the people who (maybe? I don’t know if you have them in your life) told you you’d never accomplish anything, because of your past. Prove them wrong! Trust me, it’s very satisfying

Anyway, I hope your upcoming exam goes well, and that you can make up those assignments without too much pain. And trust me, 40 lbs of squirrel food is nothing. Those cute little guys will eat all of it! Hang in there, sister :hug:

kronk - I really appreciate your insights. I think we do have many similarities. I also went for fixer-upper type relationships until my current one. My first marriage lasted a whole seven months! Thank god I’m smart/strong enough to know that physical and verbal abuse is not OK. But yeah, what is it about those needing of help types that are so attractive? I honestly thought I could be his savior.

As paranoid as he was, he seemed to trust me much more than most people, so I thought I had a special ability to get through to him and help him. Ugh! My current marriage is an exception (although I'm sure there are other issues that I haven't been able to identify yet). I’m certainly no expert in self-care/self-appreciation/whatever good I can do both for myself, and in this world. In fact, I suck at it.

Anyway, I’m winding down another day (after having already drank the full amount that I usually buy). Whether or not I’ll give in to stupid, ridiculous temptations is another story. I have to admit, stupidity is calling, and I’m trying my best to ignore that voice. Sorry, it helps me just to phrase it that way. Maybe I’ll be OK another day. Anyway, I hope you all have a great night :hug:

[Lostinspace]

I'm really sorry for last night's post. I thought better of it and deleted the part that I never should have said. I don't want anyone to take what I said as advice for how to get out of an awful situation that you should never get yourself into in the first place.

I did end up giving into stupid decisions once again last night, so I'm forcing an AF day today, as difficult as it will be. Having my judgment intact is my only defense right now against digging my grave even deeper. I just want to announce my intention early in the day in order to help keep myself accountable. I'll be going up to 325 mg today, so hopefully that'll help take the edge off the cravings.

Anyway, I hope you're all having a good one!