Here we go again

[Lostinspace]

Stuck - I’m sorry you had such a rough night. It doesn’t take much to flip that switch. I would have been in a bad mood, too, if my drinking got suddenly shut off before I’m ready. I saw your post on the Topa thread, too. I know it’s rough right now being summer, with not a lot to do. And the future is uncertain. Maybe you can try to shift your worries away by focusing on your writing, instead? Of course, apply to jobs when they come up, and take care of anything else those worries evoke that is within your control, but that only takes so long. You should mostly plan to do things you love/want to do as being your first priority during this free time that you’re not likely going to have again any time soon. I know much, much easier said than done. But give it a try anyway. Hang in there my friend :hug:

davelet - Thanks for the commiseration. I’m sorry you didn’t find peace with bac. I thought I remembered you trying naltrexone instead? Or am I confusing you with someone else? I apologize. Anyway, I hope you’re doing well.

Molly - Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll check them out. It would be nice to start titrating up again. I’m just so scared that it could be yanked away in an instant. It’s advised to keep 6 months’ worth of backup bac on hand just in case, but not all of us have the financial means to do so. It’s a scary gamble.

[StuckinLA]

Thanks, Lis. I just posted on the topa thread, but I'll repeat it here: I poured a bottle of vodka down the sink this morning. I almost immediately regretted it, of course, but I am ready to try to dry out for a little bit. Not setting long term goals, but I need to pull myself out of this funk of sitting around doing nothing. I'm going to try not to worry about writing today, and just take it easy.

I went for a terrible jog - I am really out of shape but it was nice to get outside for even half an hour. Then I took a shower and got right back into my pajamas. Just going to kick back and chill today. The girl gave me a chore to do - dust the bookshelves. I think that'll be enough for today. Maybe do a little work for my class.

Hope it's a good one, everybody.

[Molly78]

LIS - if it's any help, 400x10mg tabs cost about $102 from Inhouse, so if you already get 160mg on prescription, then (like me) you pay online for about 100mg a day, that's $2.35 a day. Maths isn't my strong point, so someone is sure to come along & rubbish that calculation, but allowing for the alcohol you WON'T be drinking, is that beyond your resources? Not sure what prescriptions cost in the US.

Just ignore this post if it's no help (like you, I sense that whenever I post, someone comes along & tells me I'm talking rubbish), but I find it really sad that someone is constrained by finances from treatment with a relatively cheap drug such as baclofen.

Good luck whatever you decide.

At the moment, I'm mainly a lurker on this forum, I really like to hear how other people are doing, & I'm a loyal follower of yours, LIS, but I don't have the confidence to post very often.

[Lostinspace]

Sorry for the late response! My husband’s two sons spent the weekend with us, so I haven’t logged on since Thursday. Stuck - That’s so great to hear that you took the leap and ditched the vodka And even if you had a terrible jog, at least you got some exercise. That’ll start to help more and more if you keep at it. I hope you’ve been getting through the weekend alright. Much love to ya :hug:

Molly - Thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate it, and I hope you didn’t think I was ignoring you. I was just busy with family (and also working - I had to go in for a few hours both days). I’ll have to sit down and figure out my finances to see if that would be workable, but I’ll definitely look into it. Thank you! And I'm sorry you're dealing with a lack of confidence, too, because I always like hearing from you, so please do come out of the shadows more often

And now on to read everything else. Wow there have been a lot of posts in the last couple days. I hope you’re all having a great weekend.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hi all you lovely peeps. I don't have a lot of energy for communication these days, so forgive is this is unusually brief, for me, anyway.

Lis. I think you're the coolest. But I'm not here to gush! I'm here because I would like to dispute the suggestion (though I'm sure it was meant to be helpful) that there is anything wrong with the fexobac (or whatever it's called) from River. I read your comment, and it freaked me out, so I switched over to what was left of an old 10mg prescription. Then I realized that both Ed and I have been taking River bac for years! Ha! And I switched back to the bac from River, because I'm titrating up and taking a handful of 10mg pills got annoying. The side effects of the 25mg pills are all too familiar, at ~275-300mg. But the results are familiar, too. I reached indifference at 325 last time. I can also say I'm pretty sure that we've taken every brand of bac that's commonly available (other than the liquid Lo0p was making) and their all pretty much the same. In my experience.

Listen, it takes what it takes. And that's time and amount of baclofen. One last thing...Remember when you said you were taking ativan because you were a bad person? (I don't remember your exact words.) It makes me fucking crazy that you think stuff like that about yourself. You have an ANXIETY disorder. And alcoholism. Both are treatable and not only are you getting better, you will get all the way better. How about some therapy? Or at the very least, some self-esteem self-help work?

And keep in mind Fred's posts about work/life balance. Profound words in those posts.

Stuck, my friend. You know how fond of you I am, right? That river you're swimming in is murky and deep. Hard to see anything, even the light of day. Please for the love of All Good Things, go see a doctor and start on some medication. Any medication, for alcoholism and/or anxiety. I'm very worried about you. There are very, very, very few of us who can compete with this disease in our brain chemistry with knuckles. They usually join a group that meets everyday and find G-O-D. You could do that, too. I'm totally down with that if you want to get all Hari-Krishna'd out.

Steve, I've read your posts with pleasure. I'm glad you're still posting. The time of indifference is so liberating, isn't it? But it's also fraught with pitfalls, in that it's easy to forget what being in the throes of alcoholic slavery feels like and does to you. I've seen many, many people who drink fairly regularly when they're indifferent slip back into daily drinking and then full blown alcoholic drinking in a fairly short amount of time. Take that for what it's worth.

All others, nice to see your posts and keep up the good fight.

Oh, wait. Who is the chick who is so self conscious about posting? I won't call you out by name, but I want you to know that we have ALL been there. My God, I used to tie myself in knots about what I wrote here. Every. Single. Time. And I (obviously) have posted A LOT. It was the most nerve wracking part of my day. Sometimes I worked on a post for days before I actually posted it. Now? Not so much. You can definitely see the difference. ha! Hang in there. And don't worry. In Sally Fields' immortal words, we really like you.

[MeJustMe]

Hi All,

Sorry it's been ages since I last posted.

My life has been sooo busy but what a wonderful life it is. I put it down to Mssrs Vanaflaxine and Baclofen

Sure, I'm not skipping around with unabated joy all the time, but at least I do sometimes.

Life is really, really good. It is hard to believe what a shambolic drunk I was just a few months ago. I haven't touched booze, and sometimes I think about it, and then think "What, you want all that misery back? That's all too hard."

I have been working a lot more, and being freelance, that's a good thing. I always used to complain about my poor income, that there wasn't any work around, blah blah... Well so far this quarter my income is up 25 per cent on where it usually is at the end of the quarter. With three weeks to go. There work is there, just I was too spaced out with a hangover to do much. Now I can start paying back my debts.

My home life has improved a lot too. My wife was really upset with me a few times some weeks ago, wanting to leave me. It was partly me, me being dis-engaged, but that's typical of me when drying out. That seems to have passed, and my wife has also acknowledged she has her own issues. We're pretty happy.

I am still smoking, which must stop soon. The truth is, I don't want to give them up yet. Hmmm....

Anyways, got to get back to work. Health and happiness to you all.

[dundrinkn]

To jump on to Ne's comment -- "indifference is so liberating, but it's also fraught with pitfalls"

Oh yeah. Well, I am NOT drinking, again. It is such a slippery slope. And I can so easily mind fuck myself into "just a few" after work. But it takes nothing at all for me to fall into daily drinking. And I AM INDIFFERENT. I have no physical cravings... what so ever. So I am where to testify that if you want to feel free on BAC and keep it going, you really do have to put the cork in the bottle, speed right on by the liquor store on the way home, and find other things to do to reward yourself. Or sometimes you just have to slow down and feel those feelings that I know I'd rather drink away. To quote an AA slogan... it isn't easy, but it is quite simple.

I know I never want to hear it. And I don't always heed my advice. At least now I feel like I have a choice, and if I do drink, it is certainly not the tragedy it was before BAC. But for all the "work" I've done on myself, I am finding that my propensity to drink at this point is simply wanting to avoid feeling. And it isn't even big, bad, scary things that I haven't dealt with. It's just life things. Human things.

Glad to see you back Ne. Really do love your "no-bullshit" posts. I know you make yourself a target by posting it the way you see it, but I love it! It cuts through the murky and deep that we all love to dive in to. And thanks for keeping things eeking along here Lis, Kronk, Stuck, Steve, MJM, and Molly (apologies if I missed someone).

[StuckinLA]

Wouldn't it be great if I could just show up in a room and hand all of my problems over to god? What a relief.

Great to see you, Ne.

Things are all right. I am more focused on writing goals than on drinking goals this week. I know the drinking was getting bad last week - I don't care so much about that, but I cared that I brought home a bottle of vodka. Whiskey or a case of beer or whatever else I could deal with, but I know that when I buy vodka I'm giving up and I'm just going to mix it with anything I drink all day. And I'm not giving up! On myself, I mean, right now. So that's why I poured it out the next morning (god, almost a whole bottle, what a waste).

Eh. I was going to go on, but now don't really feel like writing out some huge post. I'm hanging in there. And hope everybody else is, too. Be back around soon.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Thanks, Dun. Nice to see you, and hear that you've put the cork back in. It is SO easy to unplug it, isn't it? pffft.



And Stuck, thanks for posting. I am SO glad that you poured out the vodka. I forgot about that, and didn't realize the significance. Nice.

You know I really think you are special? I mean, I'm in love with most of the people I know here, honestly, but damn, you and I go way back... I love what you write (not just in here) and I hate how much you're struggling. To be honest, and I mean this in the best way possible and from the heart, what you go through keeps it real for me. Glad you didn't yell at me. I would have if I were you.



'Cause you know what I hate? When people post advice, and don't talk about themselves or where they're coming from. (hmmm. I'm in sticky territory here, because I'm not trying to suggest that everyone has to be as obsessed with sharing every detail, or MWO itself, as I am/was. We all do what we can...So anyway. Back to my favorite subject...Me!)



I moved the rest of this post over to my own thread. Just for clarity, and a bit of brevity. Better to break it all up if I'm going to start being loquacious again. Ha!



Thank you to all of you who are keeping this thread, and by proxy, this section of MWO alive. It's such a shame that there isn't more activity here. One of the reasons, I think, is that MWO used to be on the front page, in the top two or three, when you googled anything about alcohol and meds, especially baclofen. Now it's on page 2 or 3 or maybe even further bac. Weird. I guess they used to spend money to keep it in the top listings? Anyway...

[Lostinspace]

Ne - It’s so great to “see” you! Sorry I didn’t check in yesterday. Thanks for the kind words and the suggestion. I think you're the coolest, too! So, you’ve tried fexobac, too? I thought you were just taking name-brand (Lioresal). Anyway, maybe I’ll give it another shot going up when I get my finances in order (I still haven’t - ugh - but I should soon enough). And thank you for the encouragement. I do think I could use some therapy, but with a $2,600 deductible on my insurance, it’s not really doable. I’ll have to try some self-help stuff, I guess. I just never know where to go with it. I’ve tried CBT, and positive affirmations, and they haven’t been very fruitful for me. Blah, blah. Anyway, it’s really great to see you. I hope you feel better and better every day, and that we’ll see more of you soon

MJM - I’m so happy to hear that everything is still going so well. Work is better, income is better, marriage is better - that’s awesome! Don’t stress too much about smoking right now. You already just made a huge change. I mean, definitely keep it in the back of your mind, but cut yourself some slack and wait until you’re ready (within a reasonable timeframe - 10 years from now is not reasonable. You know what I mean, hopefully).

dun - It’s really great to see you, too! That’s awesome that you’re completely AF at this point. And thank you for the insight into bac. I know I’ve heard it before - if you want to maintain indifference, you have to refrain from drinking. I will definitely keep that in mind when I titrate back up to a level that’s reasonable for me.

Stuck - I’m so glad you’re having a good week, focusing on writing and not drinking. That’s HUGE! Having something you care about fill the need is always good medicine.

[Stevo]

G'day guys,

It is so good to come back in here and read all the posts and it is great to hear from you all.

Thanks for the advice and kind words Ne,it certainly is liberating.I actually drank 4 days in a row this week and although I was able to pull up I did recognise this as a potential problem.

Thanks for backing the notion up too Dun.

MJM it is great to hear that things are running so smoothly for you,I hope that things only continue in this direction for you.

That room with God would be awesome Stuck,being able to walk out with a clean slate so to speak and have complete knowledge that it is a new day.I would love that.Good luck with your writing this week.

LIS I am so stoked to see that you have posted a few times,you are like the glue that holds this thread together.


I have gotten into the swing of the course and seem to be doing alright,no hiccups to report at this stage.I am actually finding that as I have extensive experience in community services that a lot of what we are doing is already part of my thinking or approach as a professional.I am finding that although there are differences that most of these types of organisations have similar structures or templates.
My turn to apologise for not posting but I have been quite busy with life in general.Yesterday my mother was rushed to hospital in an ambulance,she is a huge drinker and now has pancreaitis.She was very sick from what I have heard.I couldn't really talk to her last night due to her being treated for pain with morphine.I live 2000 kms away so it is not like I can just go and see her either.I know that she is in the best place for her right now so I am not too worried.
My aunty(my mums sister)died an AL related death and my mother actually stated a few years back that she would go the same way.She is in what I consider to be early stages of dementia and I seem to have come to grips with the idea that she wont be around too much longer.My family is very dislocated and I don't have very much to do with them at all.

Anywho once again it is so good to see all the posts in here and actually through the medication part of the forum.
I hope everyone is doing well and I look forward to reading your next posts.

Apologies for ending on what seems like a complete downer guys.

Until next time...

Cheers Stevo.

[Molly78]

Dun, your post was really encouraging because I seem to be in the same place. 18 months without cravings but still, STILL the urge to pick up a bottle on the way home, despite knowing that the bac stops me "enjoying" it. The day after I've given way & had a few drinks (& it is only a few compared to previously) I look back & realise that I got nothing at all out of those few drinks, plus I'm furious with myself for giving way. Again.

I still count units - "Oh" I think "well that was 4 units , so I could still have 4 more on Fri night & be below the recommended.....STOP! That's ALCOHOLIC THINKING!!"

I cut myself some slack here, simply because I drank alcoholically for 35 years, so maybe it will take more than 18 months to eliminate that pattern of thinking. I know that not having alcohol in the house, eating the minute I get in, doing something productive til late evening before allowing myself to relax with a book (green light for drinking, that one, for years) is the way. As well as the bac.

Then there's the social events. Not that many these days fortunately, because I haven't yet reached the point when I can not drink when all around me are. Think I will be dead before I get to that point. But at least now I won't die of cirrhosis.

Really difficult this week because |I went on an all-inclusive holiday - didn't realise when I booked it that all alcoholic drinks were included. So I reduced the bac for that week so I could enjoy myself. Didn't reduce it enough because the alcohol still didn't hit the spot (drank it anyway, of course), put the bac up again on return, but the brain must have registered the return to old habits & is fighting my good intentions this week. Sigh. And now I have an invite to a party on Sunday I accepted ages ago, & a reunion with old friends on Tues.

I like that AA quote - it isn't easy, but it's quite simple.

[Lostinspace]

Stevo - Thanks for being so sweet. That’s great that you recognize a potential problem in your drinking four days within one week. That kind of thing really can turn south very quickly. You may be overriding the bac at this point. I can’t say how that happens, but it does. Not to say that you can never drink on bac if that’s the path you’re choosing, but you may be better off by holding off on drinking for a few (several?) weeks. It seems that the way you’re drinking is not really, well, what many people would consider social drinking (at least those that are not alcoholics, anyway). If you have a couple beers, maybe two or three, with your buddies - no big deal.

But you’ve been drinking more than that during your experiments, and coming to plan on it happening every weekend, instead of waiting for the right moment. If you want to drink on bac, you have to get to a level of bac (both dose-wise and time-wise on bac) where having a couple beers with your friends seems like a reasonable thing to do. No more beer needed - I already socialized, had a good time, etc. I really hope you don’t take this offensively, coming from someone who still battles with almost daily drinking (even though it's only a fraction of what I used to drink). I’m just trying to help with the best information I have.

Other than that, I’m so happy to hear the course is going well And I’m so very sorry to hear about your mother. It sounds like you two aren’t very close, but it must be tough to watch anyway. Hang in there buddy :hug:

Molly - I can really appreciate your struggle. I haven’t completely done away with cravings at my current dose, but they’re down a GREAT deal. Still, I have a hard time going without after a 20 year habit. I can only imagine that 35 years is that much harder to break. And I’m sure it will sing to you, even without cravings, after 18 months, the same way that I still want to smoke sometimes, even though my physical cravings are light years behind. I also occasionally give in and smoke a little - and that propels me back into habit-land where I have to fight it yet again. It really is a struggle, but it sounds like you’re doing pretty well overall, so please do cut yourself some slack. This is a tough battle to fight, even with help for cravings, and it’ll take some time to undo a habit that’s taken hold of you for so long. Keep fighting the good fight, and you’ll get there eventually

Anyway, I hope you all have a great night!

[StuckinLA]

I do kind of wonder what sets me off sometimes. I'd been doing great for 3, 4 days or something like that. Or, well, a couple days with a hiccup on Monday. Then suddenly I *had* to have some beers for the hockey game. And as soon as that feeling came on, man I couldn't drink those beers fast enough and then moved on to some whiskey and then I was blackout-drunk and fighting with the girl.

I managed to hang in there yesterday for the most part. I did drink, quite a bit, but passed out for a good nap in the afternoon and that helped sober me up a little. And now today I don't feel great, but I don't feel horrible either. And I'm planning to take a jog before long here.

I freak out about so many things. I've had 2 weeks to plan my class for tomorrow, but have I done it? No. I just freaked out all week about it and put it off until now I have only today to plan all of it. So that's what I'm working on. All day if that's what it takes (which it probably will). And as long as I can get through today and then through class tomorrow I'll be all right. And then we'll see what the surprise is tomorrow night. I think that's still on. We're touch and go but OK overall, I think.

Hope everybody's having a good one out there.

[jane27]

Stuck, it was the same with me. After I flubbed my one and only MWO quit of 52 days, it wasn't more than a couple of months that passed when I decided to let quitting go all together, and just do what I want. Not sure how I was able to free myself from the guilt of that decision, but I did whatever I wanted including popping out from my desk job at 1, 2 or 3 to buy a bottle of vodka,gin or tequila- pouring it into an empty soda can, and sitting at my desk like nothing was wrong. Stopping at the liquor store on the way home from work (had just moved in with then boyfriend + his 2 kids) and buying Christmas stocking stuffer (red mesh bags) nip samplers along with a couple bottles of prop wine and 2 sizes of Absolute- (large & medium). Drinking the nips while driving, (2 gulps to finish each max), swinging open the door at home, putting the prop wine bottles in the fridge, dashing upstairs "to change", then cramming the new bottles of booze behind my hanging shirts in the closet. Many times hearing clang clang CLANG because Id banged the new ones into old ones I'd forgotten about, and plenty of times spilling 1/2 empty bottle of putrid smelling 3 buck check which had somehow gotten in the mix.

I cant in clear faith recommend the no holds barred method, but it got me where I needed to be. Sick of feeling sick. REALLY sick. Bongo drums in my head, chest pounding, nightsweats, nightMARES, looking puffy, bruises everywhere from misjudged steps. Feeling that sick, and that alone with my problem is what drove me to quit. I may as well have been under lock down for the next 8 weeks, because I barely left the house. (having recently quit my job made this possible). I told myself that it was the only thing I needed to do each day (not drink).

Just wanted to share my experience with you. Always enjoy reading your posts. Xo J