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**Samstone** · July 9, 2014, 05:28 PM

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Hey David,
So I guess my question would be what do you want to do, do want to quit drinking? I am not sure of your history so I'm just starting at the basics. Was taking the Bal to quit or moderate drinking or something different? I'm not up on the meds thing but if you want to quit my guess is that you have committed yourself to that?
Sam

**spiritwolf333** · July 9, 2014, 06:33 PM

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Dave -sounds like Baclofen is more than doing its job for you.

If quitting alcohol were easy, I would get drunk every night.

Your compelled need to drink every night -even with no need or thought, truly is the illogical power that alcohol has over your brain. And please trust me when I tell you that you will eventually outdrink the benefits from baclofen. Give your self 10 nights without alcohol and a new routine and alcohol will no longer be a part of your life. Just an opinion and thought.

Final thought. If you are an alcoholic (true alcoholic) and you think that you are going to beat the disease with thinking and medications, then you are in for a much longer journey. You will find quite a few on this thread who still drink and say they have the choice to quit anytime -thanks to baclofen. I continue to wish them all well. But many of know that they are living in a fantasy world. Moderation is for those who are not "really" alcoholics.

**Lostinspace** · July 9, 2014, 07:29 PM

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Hi davelet! It sounds like you're in a very similar boat to me. I did manage to taper down my drinking to nothing, then went 5 days AF, before starting to drink a little. I'm only drinking a fraction of what I used to right now, but I feel it's largely out of habit. That habit is hard to break.

First, I would suggest, if your cravings are really that much lower, that you buy smaller bottles for now. I've been amazed by how much less I'm buying and the fact that I don't really feel the need for more once it's gone! Second, it's time to work on new habits. I've started walking more after work, spending more time watching my squirrels and chipmunks that I feed, and doing (at least some of) the housework I've been neglecting. Of course, what you want to do in your spare time is up to you, but think of other things you might want to do.

I'm sorry that I'm not more help in this department. It always used to annoy me when people said "just think of all the things you used to do before you started drinking." Well, before I started drinking alcoholically, I was 15. I really don't think my interests back then would interest me now. But you get the idea. Hopefully, some people with more experience will come on here and tell what they've learned. I just want you to know I understand and I wish you the best.

**Ginger999** · July 9, 2014, 08:53 PM

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Hi Davelet and welcome to MWO! Glad you decided to stop lurking and post. I can't speak to the meds so I wanted to suggest that you go to the Newbie Nest thread and cross post there. There are a boat load of different people on that thread that could give you lots of advice. There is a toolbox thread too that has lots of suggestions on things to do to remain alcohol free. Check that out too. And read, post, read, post. If your goal is to stop drinking, you've come to the right place! *

**StuckinLA** · July 9, 2014, 10:59 PM

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Try mixing more mixer into your drinks? Vodka tonics can be mostly tonic, or beers can be mixed with lemonade or lemon soda to make a shandy (raddler, whatever you want to call it), or into bloody mary mix for a michelada. You can sip on three micheladas and only use 1 bottle of beer for it.

I found that just having a drink in your hand is what helps the most. Try alternating with a alcohol-free beer in between drinks, or water, or something like that. These are just the classic moderation strategies. You can also try doing something *else* besides staying in the office until 10pm. See a movie right after work? Pick up a prostitute? OK, kidding about that one (sort of). But seriously, there are *way* more things you can do when you're not drinking than you can do when you are drinking. It's difficult to believe, but it can be true.

Also, sometimes - especially if cravings and anxiety are not the issue - it only takes 1 day to break out of the cycle. Just one day alcohol free, and it seems possible. And the second day is much easier.

**Alky** · July 9, 2014, 11:07 PM

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spiritwolf333;1680876 wrote: And please trust me when I tell you that you will eventually outdrink the benefits from baclofen.
Been there, done that. If you scroll back through older posts, you will find that others have experienced the same thing. Working with a psychiatrist, I am only now stabilizing back towards indifference. It is very possible for you to lose your switch consuming as much as you are.

spiritwolf333 wrote: Final thought. If you are an alcoholic (true alcoholic) and you think that you are going to beat the disease with thinking and medications, then you are in for a much longer journey. You will find quite a few on this thread who still drink and say they have the choice to quit anytime -thanks to baclofen. I continue to wish them all well. But many of know that they are living in a fantasy world. Moderation is for those who are not "really" alcoholics.

Again, agreed. IMO, "indifference" means you can look at a drink and not immediately want to chug it. It helps you make a choice. It does not give you "power" over your addiction in the way that many people want. Despite the media hype, I do not see it as a "cure" for addiction. A useful tool, yes, but not a cure. I've been to alcoholic hell and back while taking baclofen, and this time, I value my sobriety way too much to indulge in the pipe dream (and yes, I do think it's really a pipe dream for a genuine alcoholic) that baclofen is going to allow me all of a sudden to become a moderate drinker. Keep in mind that Dr. Ameisen himself did not drink for nine months after reaching indifference and drank so little during the rest of his life that it could hardly be called "moderation." If you read his case report here:

http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/con...2/147.full.pdf

you will see that he clearly states that baclofen gave him the clarity of mind to allow him to put into practice concepts he learned in AA and therapy. The first sentence of spirit's last paragraph is sage advice. Had I been receptive to that kind of advice a year to a year and a half ago, I would have been saved all kinds of problems and heartache.

**bleep** · July 10, 2014, 12:33 AM

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I completely disagree with Spiritwolf and Alky. The thing they are calling a pipe dream is what baclofen does for you, only it is no longer a dream fulfilled because the centre of your life moves far away from booze.

Take more baclofen, and then try and do what Stuck suggests - just break it for one day and see what happens. If nothing happens, then increase and repeat.

**tee111** · July 10, 2014, 01:03 AM

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If your cravings are gone I'd say half the battle is won. What I've always done even before baclofen was to not keep drink in the house and only buy a certain amount or I would have went through it all. It might take a bit of willpower to not go and get more but if its just out of habit your drinking you might just be to browned of at that stage and hit the sack.

I don't think debating over what a "true" alcoholic is, is helpful it sounds like AA speak to me.

**davelet** · July 10, 2014, 04:01 AM

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Thank you all for the supportive comments. I'm back in the office now after another 20 unit night and the thing that annoys the hell out of me is that I feel absolutely fine. If I felt like sh*t that would be some motivation to stop the habit.

Just to answer some questions, I want to stop for good - I don't see the point in "moderation" (what is the point of that?!) Just to clarify - I can stop - for days at a time. It's a bit of a white knuckle ride but I do it by staying at work late, going to the gym - things that I don't associate with a drinking habit.

But other activities ... watching a film - is that interesting without a drink? Watching comedy - not funny without a drink. Going to a concert or to the cinema - without a drink??!! I find that nothing outside of work is interesting without a drink and that I think is the problem now that I have no anxiety and no craving. I need to rebuild my life and find activities outside of work that interest me and make me feel good without drinking. On holiday recently - although it was boozy - we got into tennis, beach volleyball and acquarobics and all were massively enjoyable without involving drinking - so maybe that's the route I should go down.

Thing is, as I said, I *can* not drink, but once I've had one - oh my god - talk about floodgates opening. I also don't smoke when I don't drink but after a glass of wine the Marlboros come out and before I know it I have chain smoked a pack.

Dave.

**emily** · July 10, 2014, 05:30 AM

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Hi Dave

I'm was in much the same situation as you are in, drinking out of habit.

I can totally empathise with you and only tell you what has very recently (last couple of days) happened with me.

To cut a long story short I've been taking bac since around March last year, lots of ups and downs but I felt I never gave up on it as I could see that even though I was still drinking things had improved dramatically and I no longer walk around the next day looking 'rough' with a hangover, I saw this as a great success but still a long way away from where I wanted to be.

In the last couple of weeks the thought even crossed my mind that it was not working for me and that I was negating the effects of bac by drinking, although only at the weekends. Lke you I don't feel compelled to drink every night but if I bought a bottle of wine it was drained that night. Sometimes I would drink more if if was available, just sometimes though, not all the time like before.

Anyway, I was up as high as 130mg and this was still happening. I was beginning to realise who ridiculous the situation was, here I was suffering the SEs of these tablets, grudging the cost financially of them and STILL drinking. Not one to give up easily and still trusing in bac and everyone's expereince here my only choice was to go higher and see what happened. I was also thinking that my only path was to stop drinking completely and this was not what I wanted to do.

My goal was always to drink occasionally. A couple of years back I had a conversation with someone that told me she buys a bottle of wine on a Friday and finishes it on a Sunday. My mouth hit the floor, I was gobsmacked by this information. Most people I knew, or maybe that's what I chose to see, once they started drinking they got pissed. This was my world.

What she said opened up a new world to me and one that I wanted to be part of and since then it has been my holy grail to be able to buy one bottle of wine on a Friday and finish it on a Sunday. Impossible I thought back then but possible with bac!

(Totally not trying to veer you off the path of not drinking at all, tbh, if I had made the decision not to drink then my journey would have been much easier and yes, shorter.)

Because of my pattern I thought it would never happen, my and this girl were worlds apart, her brain chemistry was different to mine, her environment was different to mine, her relationship to the bottle of wine were different to mine. Could I ever be this girl?

Recently I swapped from wine to lager in the hope of breaking the pattern.

From Monday, I think it was, I'm up to 140mg and using a different brand which I feel is stronger (see my previous thread on this). The other night my husband bought beer to watch the footie and I took one of the cans of beer.

After drinking the beer the most miraculous thing happened I really, really, really didn't want anymore, it had little effect on giving me any buzz whatsoever and one was enough to satisfy. I tried it again last night and the same thing. Still to test with wine but a bit scared so may leave this for a couple of weeks.

So, enough about me and back to you (sorry) the moral of this story is just go high enough, keep taking the tablets, persevere and do what works and fits for you. Also, to break the habit and give yourself more amunition maybe try hynotherapy?

You can do this Dave, it will work, good luck and keep posting.

And Spiritwolf it has only been in the last year (even after going on bac) that I finally stopped the denial and admitted to myself that I am an alcoholic, I have suffered and am currently healing. If I had not found bac I would have plummeted to deeper and deeper depths over time. Bac has stopped this descent into further depths of hell, your comments are you reflecting on your own journey and if I had read that even a year and a half ago then I may have grasped onto the fact that I was not a real alcoholic and who knows where I would be now.

**Alky** · July 10, 2014, 06:32 AM

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bleep;1680938 wrote: I completely disagree with Spiritwolf and Alky. The thing they are calling a pipe dream is what baclofen does for you, only it is no longer a dream fulfilled because the centre of your life moves far away from booze.

Take more baclofen, and then try and do what Stuck suggests - just break it for one day and see what happens. If nothing happens, then increase and repeat.

Sorry Bleep, 20 units a night is a lot of booze. It's clearly NOT working.

**davelet** · July 10, 2014, 06:58 AM

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Emily, thank you for the supportive comments. It really does help. Maybe I will try increasing a little but I am nervous about going over 100 mg. Anyway, tonight is going to be AF so I will check in later and let you know how it's going.

**Xadrian** · July 10, 2014, 07:32 AM

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Some take antabuse along with the baclofen. If you don't have any cravings, maybe that would be an option.

**chelsea98** · July 10, 2014, 07:45 AM

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i got up to about 150mg of baclofen and was still drinking between 15-23 units per night. it made all of the side effects stronger than would have been otherwise. with some strong worded guidance from my wife and a couple of friends i picked, i believe it was Monday 5th october to stop drinking, everything always starts on a monday right? so that monday i stopped as per the agreement. after 2-3 days the habits i had formed regarding getting booze had almost vanished from my thoughts. i didn't have another drink until dec 23rd and only a few over xmas and new year.(i continued medicating up to 240mg to push home the message)

if i were you, choose this monday to stop. find something to fill your ex drinking time, maybe as simple as read a book or something.

good luck dave and welcome.

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