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[tee111]

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Alky;1680998 wrote: Sorry Bleep, 20 units a night is a lot of booze. It's clearly NOT working.

100 for the most part isn't a massive dose in the grand scheme of things. I'm on 100 with results but fro what I've read its pretty low. Also it does seem to be working for the OP as his craving have from what I gather have disappeared. There might be underlying issues at hand. The above recommendation of a few weeks on Antabuse is a grand idea. Just to get you a head start. I'd fully advocate that.

My first time on Bac I seem results at about 125mg but still was drinking out of habit. The key was that I wasn't necessarily wanting to get drunk I just had to have a beer at my side. I went right up to 300 and ended up losing my insanity. Maybe a 4% lager/ale would do the job for just sitting and drinking. Its pretty hard to get drunk and you usually get browned off after about 6-8 and call it a day.

[tee111]

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spiritwolf333;1680876 wrote: You will find quite a few on this thread who still drink and say they have the choice to quit anytime -thanks to baclofen. I continue to wish them all well. But many of know that they are living in a fantasy world. Moderation is for those who are not "really" alcoholics.

I have to take issue with this. I have no intention to moderate and agree that when you hear that it makes me think if people really want to stop. But being in company and being able to have a beer just to be sociable or even in a blistering hot day just fancying a beer to quince your thirst... I see nothing wrong with that. I'm sure there's other on here who could proof that point totally wrong.

Also for talk sake... If you did manage to moderate after Baclofen worked for you. I find it absurd in saying.. Well that person wasn't really a "true" alcoholic. I see some AA rhetoric creeping into this kind of talk.

[tee111]

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spiritwolf333;1680876 wrote: You will find quite a few on this thread who still drink and say they have the choice to quit anytime -thanks to baclofen. I continue to wish them all well. But many of know that they are living in a fantasy world. Moderation is for those who are not "really" alcoholics.

I have to take issue with this. I have no intention to moderate and agree that when you hear that it makes me think if people really want to stop. But being in company and being able to have a beer just to be sociable or even in a blistering hot day just fancying a beer to quince your thirst... I see nothing wrong with that. I'm sure there's other on here who could proof that point totally wrong.

Also for talk sake... If you did manage to moderate after Baclofen worked for you. I find it absurd in saying.. Well that person wasn't really a "true" alcoholic. I see some AA rhetoric creeping into this kind of talk.

Gotta say I find this "true alcoholic" talk a touch offensive. Who has any right to say who is and isn't an alcoholic? Because I can go a day without drinking as I'm to fucked to even look at a drink because my inside feel like they're about to fall out of my arse even though I drink the equivalent of a litre of vodka a day. Am I not a "true alcoholic"??? Its like saying "oh you've never had DTs you've a way to go yet. It sounds like a dick sizing contest to me tbh.

[kronkcarr]

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Hi, Dave,

I'm glad you posted here. When I started on baclofen I didn't keep any alcohol in my house because that was my biggest issue--drinking alone to not face my emotions. It wasn't always easy but I was determined. I kept a journal and got my frustrations, anger and also happiness out. When I quit over drinking I had to look at my twisted coping mechanisms.

For months and months I was not motivated and had no interest in much and I believe this was a SE of bac for me. It's gotten better a year and a half in. I like what bleep said--indifference means that alcohol isn't the center of my world. It's really nothing in my world.

However you work it I think it sounds like you need to titrate up. Keep posting and good luck.

[neophyte]

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I find that if I have alcohol around me I'll still drink it but not as much, I no longer resort to drinking alcohol I can't stand the taste of just to get more alcohol. Keeping things under control means not buying spirits or other drinks that I like. Baclofen helps with the cravings but it's not everything. I've noticed that if I drink too many days in a row I begin to get cravings again. When this happened the following morning I took antabuse, 1 week later my switch was restored.

Adding antabuse with baclofen is a valuable combo if you find yourself in this situation. Baclofen stops the cravings and obsessive thoughts of alcohol. Any remaining habits or situations where alcohol is available, antabuse means you can't drink at all for at least 5 days after taking the dose.

[Lostinspace]

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"It sounds like a dick sizing contest to me tbh."

Bahahahahaha. Yeah, it always bothered me, too, when people in AA would suggest that those who returned to moderate drinking were never REALLY an alcoholic to begin with. Actually, there was a a large scale study (dammit, I can't find it atm, but I can post it as soon as I do), conducted by the NIAAA, I believe, that showed that one-third of alcohol-dependent people either came to abstain or moderate after several years of follow up. From what I recall, it was a 50/50 split between abstainers and moderators. So, in other words, one-sixth of alcohol-dependent people will eventually moderate their drinking WITHOUT any help (like bac). How many more can with the craving control that bac provides? I'm not suggesting that this is what people should aim for. It's only to say it's possible. I'll post a link to that article as soon as I can find it. Sorry to hijack your thread, davelet.

EDIT: Just to add to my previous thought: when I say these alcohol-dependent people had no help, I'm not just talking about medications. They had no AA, no rehabs, no anything. There actually is a large "spontaneous remission" rate from alcoholism that no one either knows about, or refuses to talk about, because, let's be honest, that would hurt business. The business of keeping us all trapped, going back to their rehabs, shame-faced, again and again and again. I'm still fighting those horrible thoughts they implanted in my brain - that I'm powerless. Alcohol is my master, and all that other bs. I am NOT powerless. I am a normal human being with a dysfunction (yeah, join the human race!). I will overcome this and become AF. Sorry davelet, this rant turned out to be way longer than I expected it to be!

[bleep]

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Alky;1680998 wrote: Sorry Bleep, 20 units a night is a lot of booze. It's clearly NOT working.

Which is why I said take more baclofen.

If you are drinking 20 units a night, I would say you aren't indifferent. The only way to reach indifference is to take a sufficient amount of baclofen. At the same time, you say that you have no cravings.

So there are a couple of things you can do here. If I were in your shoes, I would take more baclofen. 100 is not very high, and just going on statistics, is not enough to reach indifference (I'm just using numbers in my head for statistics, I have nothing formal to base this on). Or you can decide that you have enough baclofen in you, and try to stop. You say you have done this often for a a few days, but you don't mention if you have done it whilst being on a 100mg's? If you have and it still is a white-knuckle experience, then you are not high enough.

Baclofen will not stop you drinking. What it will do is make the process far, far simpler than you thought possible. The first steps must come from you, but don't make life harder than it has to be and make those steps when you are not at a high enough level.

[davelet]

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No need to apologise, Lost. I'm enjoying all the conversation on this thread.

I managed to be alcohol free last night! I can't believe it. I slept dreadfully (of course, because I didn't pass out like usual) but I just stayed in the office fairly late, spent 1.5 hours travelling 6 miles from work to central London due to the hopelessness of London Underground (at least no pubs on trains), checked in with a friend and drank coffee with her in a shop, came home at 10.30pm and went to bed. How boring is that? Guess it's a welcome to my (hopefully) new life.

[Lostinspace]

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That's great, davelet! And I really don't think your new AF life will be boring - at all. Or at least it won't stay that way. You just have to search for and find new activities that you love. If drinking and watching tv have been your only hobbies for years, as they have been for me as well, then it will probably take some time to find other things that you really enjoy. But it will happen.

[kronkcarr]

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Good for you davelet. Progress.

Lostinspace, I read something similar yesterday. Here's the link to what I read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/ny...tion.html?_r=0

Here's to a good weekend for all of us.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Hi, Dave. A belated welcome to the forum.

I am not even going to begin to wade into the morass that has been developing on your poor thread.

Congrats on the alcohol free night. I think sitting with a friend drinking coffee is a lovely way to spend an evening. (Do you think the coffee might have had something to do with your rough night? :H My husband can't even drink decaf after lunch! But he's oooold. [Younger than I am, but who's counting?] Anyway...)

Jkttdp. (Just keep taking the damn pills.) I got that advice early and often. It worked for me.

Hang in there. Ignore the kerfuffle! Or enjoy it, if you have a particularly twisted sense of humor. (I'm kidding. It IS funny. Also ironic. And moronic.)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Cross-posted, Kronk. That's an interesting article. Thanks for the link, and hope you have a good weekend, too.

[chelsea98]

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dave, as has been said, you probably need to go much higher on the baclofen. i ended up at 240mg and many who have had benefits were way higher than 100mg (im on 130mg maintenance!)

the coffee probably didnt help with your sleep but you also hit the nail on the head that you couldnt get to sleep because you had no alcohol in you. what you may also find is that mid to late evening you may feel drowsy on the bac, i know i do, and then when you battle through that, it can keep you awake longer. titrating up i would battle the drowsiness, stay up til 1 - 1:30 and then be up at about 7am. the lack of sleep didnt really affect me at all.

keep going higher

[StuckinLA]

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davelet;1681282 wrote: (at least no pubs on trains)

Oh man, wouldn't that be amazing? I'd give up my drivers license forever and just take public transportation from here out, even if I didn't have anywhere to go!

When I quit drinking the first few times, I craved coffee bad - all day, all night, all I wanted was coffee and cigarettes like I was my own 1 man AA meeting. But it does wreck your sleep to hell, and on top of the bac it seems like you can pretty much give up on sleeping when the sun is down. Still, a coffee is far preferable to booze.

And coffee shops *can* be as fun as bars if you find the right ones. Try decaf, or herbal tea. It's weird, really once you start looking for non-alcoholic things to drink you realize there is SO MUCH out there to choose from that it's almost daunting. I never had to make these kinds of decisions before, it would just be give me the cheapest beer and a shot of whiskey. Now I gotta like pick from a goddamned menu. Sheesh.

Congrats on the AF day. It's a big deal. Really.

[Samandkatharine]

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Congrats on the alcohol free night. I think sitting with a friend drinking coffee is a lovely way to spend an evening. (Do you think the coffee might have had something to do with your rough night? My husband can't even drink decaf after lunch! But he's oooold. [Younger than I am, but who's counting?] Anyway...)

I can't drink anything caffeinated after noon.

Sam