Indifference

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference

Alky, you relapsed when you titrated down and then completely stopped taking baclofen. The medication works. You took it. You stopped drinking. You stopped taking it. You started drinking.

EDIT: I am really, really glad that you are on your way out of that hell. I won't belabor the point I was trying to make, and frankly have no interest in doing anything that might upset you. You're on the road to wellness and that's ALL that matters. You could probably really help new people if you shared what's working for you right now because lots of them are in the same position and without the same resources.

Also, you could post the general location (or even the name!) of the doctor who is helping you on this thread:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ion-47247.html

If I recall correctly, you're in Florida somewhere? There was a study there some years ago and it seems that the word is out and psychiatrists in that state are actively prescribing! I'm really glad you found a good one.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference

Hi, Tee. I hear ya' and totally agree. I really, really wish someone would take the time to translate the French forum and get that stuff on here. Maybe I will someday. (Don't hold your breath, though!) I wonder if they have this much bull shit on there. Oh, I mean kerfuffle if swear words offends someone.

tee111;1681271 wrote: Alky.. Ameisen drank a bottle a day all the way up..

nope. He was sober. He was on baclofen for a year, at low doses, before he titrated down to 30mg and then titrated up to find he was uninterested in drinking. He was completely sober during the time that he titrated up. I will look up the page numbers if you really want me to, but I know that I posted them here recently.

I, on the other hand, drank like my life depended on it and so did my husband. We still found indifference and 3+ years later, we're still there.

Just keep taking the damn pills, people.

[Cassander]

Indifference

we are...like moths...drawn to the flame

best wishes to all

Cass

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference

This is so ridiculous.

Spirit, this is a personal message:

You realize that the only reason this keeps coming up is because you keep bringing it up. I can't think of one single person who is as obsessed with this topic. Not one of us old timers suggests that drinking is a solution. Yet you keep insisting that this is what an unnamed someone suggests. Weird.

Remember JDizzle? Take a look at his threads and posts. Please. Note that several of us pointed out repeatedly that if he continued to drink, thought obsessively about drinking, that he was not only not indifferent, he would never become indifferent.

This whole thing is bizarre.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference

Cassander;1681429 wrote: we are...like moths...drawn to the flame

best wishes to all

Cass

I know. It's funny how you find yourself with time to post on these threads in particular. It's such a drag, I think that if that was the only thing I had time for I really wouldn't bother coming back. As it is, it's very, very, very hard to participate regularly when stuff keeps getting repeatedly posted that is either a personal attack or simply incorrect information. It's painful. I would much rather spend my time explaining how I got from there to here and seeing if I can offer some support to people who are just beginning their journey.

Best to you, too.

[tee111]

Indifference

I could have sworn the good doctor drunk all the up to indifference I could be wrong though. Anyway something is diffenetily going on with Spirit its like listening to a fundamentalism who has been mindwarped into belivings the be all and end all when it comes believing his own hype.

This bull shit of a " true aloocholic" IMO is utter bullshit. I fing it funny that spirit tells people to witstain from alcohol when titrating up. Surely if you where a lost cause " true alcoholic" this would be quite impossible. I've herd of people on there death beds with a bottle of vodka in there hand.

If you find indifference and decide to have a drink here and there and it doesn't fall back into a dark place yourr cured simple as that. No 2 ways about it. Anything else is bull shit AA cultism.

I don't thing some poster realise the damage they're doing when posting this rubish about what's true alcoholic is vs a problem drinker. Your just going to scare new user a away.

God forbit this place turns into that cult soberrevery website.

I think some AA retericis creeping in to this board.

[tee111]

Indifference

Ne/Neva Eva;1681401 wrote: Hi, Tee. I hear ya' and totally agree. I really, really wish someone would take the time to translate the French forum and get that stuff on here. Maybe I will someday. (Don't hold your breath, though!) I wonder if they have this much bull shit on there. Oh, I mean kerfuffle if swear words offends someone.



nope. He was sober. He was on baclofen for a year, at low doses, before he titrated down to 30mg and then titrated up to find he was uninterested in drinking. He was completely sober during the time that he titrated up. I will look up the page numbers if you really want me to, but I know that I posted them here recently.

I, on the other hand, drank like my life depended on it and so did my husband. We still found indifference and 3+ years later, we're still there.

Just keep taking the damn pills, people.

I thought I had found a way to translate PDFs Neva but the graphs were not included safely. People need to start getting into the French forum, its everything you'll ever need to know.

[Fred_The_Cat]

Indifference

People, I have ***THE SOLUTION***

We clearly have not gotten Spirit's point because he has to keep repeating it until we get it right. What's worse, the vulnerable newcomer, easily led astray by misinformation and perverts with candy cannot distinguish a good thread from a bad one and must be shown the ropes. I propose the following:

Make each of Spirit's threads a sticky. They already look like stickys with the asterisks and allcaps, so I think he was ahead of the curve there.

Create some kind of title for Spirit- kind of like an academic or heraldic title but something with a net twist. How about Baclofen Guru of the Information Sober Highway?

Make some kind of panel to archive Spirit's contributions to the historical shift in alcoholism treatment. I nominate Is_There_Any_Hope to run his wiki page.

Build a rustic cabin in a remote corner of the Internet where Spirit puffs a pipe, meditates In a lotus position and dispenses words of wisdom to those who have climbed the message board mountain to hear his words.

Let's get to it folks!

[tee111]

Indifference

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

tee111;1681269 wrote: I'm shooting for abstinence but I'm not going to live in fear of not being able to have a beer on a summers day if I'm handed one. This "true alcoholic" shit is getting boring. I started posting on here around the same time as you spirit last year (old user name) .

Perhaps "true alcoholic" talk is not getting boring to those who are truly suffering from alcoholism?

What is your old user name?

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

tee111;1681280 wrote: I'm surprised there's even 7 or 8 posters even left on this forum.

Hi Tee -without performing an official poll, I can only imagine that most readers of the forum are onlookers -not posters. I further believe that they are visiting the site because of the devastation that alcohol has caused in their lives. I don't think there are many visiting this site for recreational purposes.

It is my opinion that the average new comer to the site is looking for "a way out" of the alcohol hell that they are in.

[tee111]

Indifference

spiritwolf333;1681506 wrote: Perhaps "true alcoholic" talk is not getting boring to those who are truly suffering from alcoholism?

What is your old user name?

There you are again with this f**king "true alcoholism" Fuck sake man give it a rest. I drink 8lt of 5% beer a night with serious health issues but I drink through the pain. Am I "true alcoholic?

It is boring beyond believe Spirit.. Very boring. You sound like born again AA evangelist. Flogging a dead horse. There's so much evidence to proof you wrong that's it not even funny. You seem to have hard on to just piss people off. You just keep going on and on with same old posts. What is your definition of a "true alcoholic?" I'd really like to know. You say you stopped drinking before titrating up on Bac. I know lots of hardcore drinkers who's say your not a true alcoholic just because of this.

Some of your posts are really to my anyway very condescending especially to new users. You say that there are 7 or 8 posters on here who are hurting newbies by saying it might be possible to moderate and we're all living in a dream world. Who are you to tell people this? If anyone hurting the site it imo you more than anyone else.

I'm sorry if I'm out of line but some of your posting are really winding me up and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'll leave it at that. Please someone else who's a bit more articulate with string a post together try and take this argument going I'm just browned off with the whole thing.

I wish Loop was here (RIP)

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

bleep;1681285 wrote: Quoted for emphasis.

What is this "true alcoholic" nonsense?

This is the advice I would give to someone, and why:

Baclofen titration is a difficult thing to do. Stopping drinking without baclofen is a difficult thing to do. Combining two difficult things to do at the same time seems to me to be a foolish endeavour, especially in light of the fact that the first difficult thing, when successfully completed, renders the second difficult thing unnecessary. There is no reason to white-knuckle yourself to death on the way up, because if baclofen works for you, in a very short space of time you will no longer feel compelled to drink yourself to death. Just do one difficult thing at a time, in other words.

It is for this reason that I would advise someone who is beginning their titration, or is halfway through it, to not bother changing their drinking habits there and then. It has nothing to do with whether their goal is moderation or abstinence. The same advice applies to both sets of people.

Bleep, you paint a very rosy picture. Indeed, most "true alcoholics" will cling to every word you say. Keep drinking, take some medication that will lower your desire to drink, and, before you know, you will only want to drink on certain occasions -if you even want to drink at all. Perfect. Please keep dispersing this theory and perhaps it will help others out of the hell of alcoholism or alcohol abuse. People deserve the right to read your experience.

This "true alcoholic" nonsense you speak of kills 247 people per day (88,000 per year) in the USA alone. (per CDC). Yes Bleep, there is a huge difference in being an alcoholic versus an abuser of alcohol. In my opinion, all of our combined experiences regarding alcohol is important to anyone trying to rid themselves of the death trap.

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

Cassander;1681429 wrote: we are...like moths...drawn to the flame

best wishes to all

Cass

lol.lol

Insects swarming around in the summer months (at least in the south) or notorious for clinging to the nearest bright light. In fact, it seems as if I have one that inevitably finds my TV screen every night. Damn, it is aggravating. It interferes with the way that I normally view my program. The darn fly causes me to get out of my comfort zone and take action. I sometimes even have to replay the program to remember what I was actually perceiving to begin with. (Who knows, when I replay the event, I sometimes come to a different conclusion)

And to your point, we seldom advance our own knowledge with the same boring thoughts. I find it helpful to learn more when disagreement occurs. I can only hope this applies to others as well.

[Jjkk]

Indifference

Long time lurker here. This is confusing. I have 6 beers 5-6 nights a week. At parties I get drunk and make an ass. Do I qualify to begin taking Baclofen?