Indifference

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

[QUOTE=Lostinspace;1682532]Let's just stop this thread in its tracks, shall we? I understand why spirit feels so strongly about this, but . . . You know, I've already been diagnosed a "late-stage alcoholic." Besides the hideous withdrawal I've suffered in the past, my last full medical exam showed that my liver enzymes were through the roof, my kidneys weren't functioning properly, and that my pancreas was so inflamed that I was weeks away from developing full-blown pancreatitis. If I had continued on the way I had been, there's no chance in hell I would have lived to see my 40th birthday (which is still four years away).

BUT, there is no reason to scare people away with all this (reminiscent of AA) talk.

Hi Lost -thanks for the post. You are absolutely 100% correct. Alcoholics (for the most part) can not and will not be "scared" out of drinking. However, most alcoholics will read and understand information presented to them regarding their deadly disease. Does this help? In most cases -no. This is how powerful and misleading this disease is. In my opinion, an alcoholic can never be scared into quitting -never. An alcoholic can only ever really quit with medication and other areas that I have mentioned.

My only statement is that alcoholism kills people and does so without them ever giving permission to do so.

[StuckinLA]

Indifference

Spirit's definition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YUy_c9gMH4[/video]]

The only "true" alcoholic is a dead alcoholic, right Spirit?

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

kronkcarr;1682542 wrote: spirit when I take my bac in the morning along with my vitamin, Omega 3 and Chloroxygen I think, "Thank goodness I remembered to take these today." Now please answer my questions.

Kronk -thank you for being forthright in responses.

For me, everyday when I take my baclofen (3 times per day), I absolutely remember and I am reminded that I take this medication for my alcoholism. Certainly, I take my blood pressure medicine and it reminds me of my high blood pressure levels. I take my vitamins and upon doing so, I am reminded that I want to eat healthier for the day.

But Kronk, I would be an absolute liar to my self and others to say or think that I did not have a problem with alcohol each time I took a baclofen or each time I took a drink. I am glad for you that you do not even consider alcohol a problem for you when you take your baclofen. That will never be the case for me. Alcohol damned near took my life and baclofen ended up damn near saving it.

In my opinion, it is very important for those that are new to taking drugs to minimize their alcoholism to accept and understand that these drugs do help lessen the physical and mental cravings. These drugs do NOT take away the root causes that one partakes in alcohol to begin with.

Kronk -you have asked me many times now whether I have reached a level of indifference relative to the intake of alcohol. My only answer is this: I can drink one or many and have relativity no negative side effects the day. However, I must say a level of depression and anxiety begins to slowly build -with out my approval. Thus said, alcohol must never be a part of my life again. I am glad that it still works for you.

[kronkcarr]

Indifference

Stuck Hahaha! Thanks for that. It made my night.

spirit thanks for answering my questions. I'm sorry that you have the feeling that alcohol is still a problem for you. I'm glad that you don't drink (?) so that your depression and anxiety are kept at bay.

I appreciate it when you own your experience and don't post it as other's. Thanks for your clarification on how baclofen is with you.

[tee111]

Indifference

I'll never forget that I had a problem with alcohol but as long as I keep taking my meds I see no reason to beat myself up about it. I've found a help and that's that. I had a drink no problem... Now I don't... simples. If I stop taking the meds I'll have it again most likely.

No one is saying you have to pretend you never had a problem but there's no point dwelling on it.You can't get that time back.

Spirit you say baclofen "dam near" saved your life. What makes you say that? From what I gather you don't drink no anymore? Isn't that game over as far as your drinking problem is concerned? Sure you might have to take a med for the foreseeable future but that's life.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference

spiritwolf333;1682552 wrote: Can you imagine a life where alcohol is not even part of a living experience? In fact, can you imagine living a life where alcohol would actually being a total takeaway from your life?

Yes.

Apparently you are having a really hard time with that, though.

Rest assured, Spirit, with enough time and enough work, alcohol will not run your life for you anymore. Perhaps you, too, will be able to stop obsessing about it and this argument you've created won't seem nearly as threatening to your own well being.

By your own admission, abstinence at all costs and as the only goal hasn't meant that you've been completely abstinent. It's hard to hear that your way is the only way, and that the rest of us are delusional or not alcoholic enough, when your way hasn't worked for you yet. Perhaps taking the time to focus on yourself, rather than insisting that other people do it exactly your way, would prove more beneficial to you personally. It would certainly prove beneficial to the rest of us, if you were actually walking the walk and not just spewing the talk.

[Lostinspace]

Indifference

:H That was great, Stuck. I used to watch House a lot, so I remember that episode and getting really angry about it at the time. No one has a problem that dooms them for life.

Our brains are capable of forming new neural connections through new habits, while old pathways wither away from lack of use. In other words, we can undo a drinking problem in much the same way that it developed in the first place - by forming new habits and strengthening those habits. Baclofen greatly aids this process by making it so much easier not to continue strengthening those old pathways, whether that means not drinking at all, or using the gift of indifference to occasionally partake.

And you're right, tee. Not only is there no reason to dwell on the past, but it only helps to keep those old, unhelpful pathways alive and strong.

OK. I said this morning that I wouldn't comment on these threads anymore, so I'll now stick to my word and get out of here.

[Xadrian]

Indifference

spiritwolf333;1682552 wrote: Fred and Stuck -I admire your and appreciate your views regarding alcohol being part of your life

But still you disagree and you are sure that YOU are the only one that knows the real truth, regardless of the experiences of others, and everybody has to believe YOUR truth.
You keep telling over and over that the world is flat while lately there are indications that the world probably is round.

I even wonder if the part of "I admire and appreciate your views" is sincere.

I really don't know what kind of psychiatric disease you have and I'm sure you can't help it yourself, but it's VERY annoying to other people.
Did you already have it diagnosed and are you aware of it yourself? If I'm not mistaken, I read in some of your early posts that you are egoistic and don't tend to listen what other people say about you.
Well, that explains something, but I'm afraid that's only a fraction of the symptoms of your disease.

I wouldn't call myself completely normal and we all have are own peculiarities, but man, you can really make people tired.
I'm convinced you can not help it yourself, so I don't want to get rude, but maybe at least you could TRY to preach a little LESS about you thoughts and opinions? It's always the same and believe me, everyone knows you opinion by now.

The only battle here we should fight is the battle against alcohol addiction, but it looks more like battle of the majority of the forum against Spirit, who is convinced he is invincible.

[tee111]

Indifference

Xadrian;1682721 wrote: I even wonder if the part of "I admire and appreciate your views" is sincere.

Your not the only one.

Its like people think that posting things like this just before ripping you to shit makes everything OK.

I find it patronising.

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

Xadrian;1682721 wrote: But still you disagree and you are sure that YOU are the only one that knows the real truth, regardless of the experiences of others, and everybody has to believe YOUR truth.
You keep telling over and over that the world is flat while lately there are indications that the world probably is round.

(Or, perhaps I keep telling the people the world is round and others keep telling them that it is flat? -lol-but true)

I really don't know what kind of psychiatric disease you have and I'm sure you can't help it yourself, but it's VERY annoying to other people.
Did you already have it diagnosed and are you aware of it yourself? If I'm not mistaken, I read in some of your early posts that you are egoistic and don't tend to listen what other people say about you.
Well, that explains something, but I'm afraid that's only a fraction of the symptoms of your disease.

Oh boy, I am in deeper trouble than I once thought!

I wouldn't call myself completely normal and we all have are own peculiarities, but man, you can really make people tired.
I'm convinced you can not help it yourself, so I don't want to get rude, but maybe at least you could TRY to preach a little LESS about you thoughts and opinions? It's always the same and believe me, everyone knows you opinion by now.

Foolish me. I thought we were suppose to express our own thoughts and opinions? X -I keep missing your mark. Perhaps this "normal" you speak about is not for me.

The only battle here we should fight is the battle against alcohol addiction, but it looks more like battle of the majority of the forum against Spirit, who is convinced he is invincible.

X -Please take just a moment and consider the following:

(1) Of course I realize that the majority of "regular" posters protest me and anything that I have to say.

(2) I only post in an attempt to help a newcomer -who may have been in similar circumstance as myself when I first joined.

(3) I am firmly committed to the belief that we do not learn any thing new if we all just sit around and agree with each other -singing Kumbaya.

(4) I have learned -at least, just for me, that the way that I react and respond to people and situations is more important than anything else.

Most importantly X, is exactly what you alluded to: Are you visiting this site to free yourself from the deadly disease of alcoholism, or -just here visiting out of boredom. In most stages of alcoholism, it is almost impossible to vision life without drinking. To share the fact that life can be so much better without alcohol and to offer suggestions on how to get there is ok by me. If you want to continue to drink and share this same thought, please do so. But in all cases, please try and remember the pain and suffering of the "real" alcoholic who visits this site in hopes of finding "A Way Out"

[guapo]

Indifference

Discovering helpful tactics to overcome alcohol misuse is a super reason to visit these forums. Just watching this dialogue unfold intrigues me..

Most here have found things that are working, and that's great. What comes to mind is the feeling I had after attending a single AA meeting about six months ago.

I thought, gee, why can't we all down and discuss alternative strategies beyond abstinence, because it's exciting to think about that. At the time that made some sense to me, but spending enough time listening to people's arguments cured me of that notion pretty quickly

Imagine posting anything whatsoever to do with anything beyond abstinence on any of those forums.

Is that the argument here, abstinence versus controlled drinking? Isn't indifference be good for both?

[Fred_The_Cat]

Indifference

Damn, Spirit, I'll give you this.

You have a knack for luring an audience to your soapbox and making them debate amongst themselves whether to disagree, psychoanalyze or throw eggs at you.

A fine use of everyone's time- and most of all mine because I love me a good shit-show of trolling.

[spiritwolf333]

Indifference

Fred_The_Cat;1682861 wrote: Damn, Spirit, I'll give you this.

You have a knack for luring an audience to your soapbox and making them debate amongst themselves whether to disagree, psychoanalyze or throw eggs at you.

A fine use of everyone's time- and most of all mine because I love me a good shit-show of trolling.

Hi Fred -I know that you know. But Fred, I do want to ask you one question -Does controversy (as long as it does not get too personal), help or hinder the learning process? Perhaps, at least for me, I learn more from and about others (and subjects) when there is controlled controversy. Most responses -negative or positive, help me to reevaluate my own opinion or belief. Just a thought.

And Fred, for me, we are not just talking about the benefits of jogging or the therapeutic benefits of sewing, we are talking about a disease that kills too many of us every day. So, for any or all of us to be disturbed by opinions related to alcoholism is better than not being disturbed at all.

[StuckinLA]

Indifference

Fred_The_Cat;1682861 wrote: I love me a good shit-show of trolling.

:H:H:H

[Fred_The_Cat]

Indifference

spiritwolf333;1682867 wrote: Hi Fred -I know that you know. But Fred, I do want to ask you one question -Does controversy (as long as it does not get too personal), help or hinder the learning process? Perhaps, at least for me, I learn more from and about others (and subjects) when there is controlled controversy. Most responses -negative or positive, help me to reevaluate my own opinion or belief. Just a thought.

And Fred, for me, we are not just talking about the benefits of jogging or the therapeutic benefits of sewing, we are talking about a disease that kills too many of us every day. So, for any or all of us to be disturbed by opinions related to alcoholism is better than not being disturbed at all.

Just keep the shit show going, that's all I ask.