Post TSM

[guapo]

SG. I started naltrexone 18 months ago, my approach was to choose to believe in it, I did, and it worked beautifully.

good luck

[YouKayBee]

Yes, that sounds like a very sensible approach. You can take ibuprofen, paracetamol and aspirin, they aren't as strong as codeine, but if you can do without it probably another good step.

Well I've been to my addiction doctor today and I'm back on NAL. (UK)

I've already taken 12.5 mg just to be safe. I'll do this for a couple of days then go up to 25mg's, then the full amount.

I just have to be careful I don't take anything with codeine it it.

I am sure this time it will work for me as I am determined. I used to be put off going out to social situtions as I could never remember half of it!

Watch this space!

[Spiritfree]

SF RESPONSE TO YKB POST:

YKB -Truly, I do hope others start reading your posts and commenting -especially if they are in the initial mindset of harm reduction to themselves (due to alcohol)-- and if this happens to be occurring at a time early on in their particular stage of AUD. The VALUE of posting your TSM protocol and the results thereof can/do offer great benefits to those seeking to reduce their alcohol intake -and more importantly, eventually electing not to drink. After having read many of your posts, I sometimes wonder if the TSM approach-combined with baclofen, would have been a better solution for me.

Having said this, I do have to remember that I was in "extreme" trouble -mental death type trouble when I was finally able to quit due to my medical doctor subscribing HD baclofen for me. So why, do I now even consider TSM as possibly having a 'better' outcome for than 'Baclofen? Well, for me, and many other hard core abusers of alcohol, the initial shock of being told (or believing) that you "can never drink again" becomes and immediate barrier to ever becoming truly alcohol free -again, only in my opinion.

IMO, most of our brains can just not process this information into logical formation. However, something else is operating within our brains that tell us that this is probably the reality and needs to happen in order to survive. It is at that point in time at which our "brain" begins to play tricks on us through subconscious and conscious negotiations. And by this I mean that our 'brain' will initially go along with some form and duration of abstinence, but all along, it is planning on revisiting alcohol as a medication for its perceived need to survive (keep living). This particular part of the brain truly lacks the ability to remember (or even analytically process) the harmful and deadly side effects alcohol. (Interesting how our brains easily remember the side effects of medications like Baclofen -but not Alcohol?) And I believe, that unless SOMEHOW medically treated, the brain has a huge task before it to rewire itself.

I believe that it is at this juncture when our brains have biologically/physically and technically rewired itself to ONLY understand the use of alcohol as one of its primary and basic means to survive. The brain believes that alcohol is more (or almost) more important than food, water, sleep, etc. This basic element of survival (alcohol), eventually becomes the MOST important tool that the brain perceives that is HAS to have. Unfortunately, I believe the brain remembers this perceived fact for many years to come and this perceived fact is typically the cause of eventual relapse(s). To change this,we are talking about a hardcore-permanent rewiring of the brain. I believe this necessitated rewiring can occur using several approaches and primarily by; Medications and/or Time Based Harm Reduction protocols.

So, in summary, why would I now even consider the TSM method as an actual or real method to recovery (or brain rewiring)? After all, Baclofen eventually work for me -so all is well and grand -right? Not necessarily. Again, I revert back to "brain shock" that the brain encounters upon hearing the words "never dink again" I now wholeheartedly believe that if one begins so called "trickery" to the active alcohol configured brain, then one may have a more realistic chance at choosing to drink or not to drink. Herein lies the true possibility to eventually writing off alcohol as a tool to survive. In theory and probable reality, the brain is able only able to accept 'only partial drinking' as a way to continue to survive (mentally/physically). Unbeknownst to the brain is the fact that one day it will be sufficiently rewired to the point that alcohol will, once again becomes, be a choice. However, I do believe that it is at this choice 'option' that medically treated AUD sufferers can eventually revert back to active AUD (as a result of once again programming the brain to believe that alcohol is a basic element of survival). With all of this said, at some point, the AUD patient has to decide to stop drinking and make a total lifestyle change -as related to Alcohol, Nutrition, and Physical Health -just as you did YKB.

TSM is being actively studied by the National Institute of Health (alcohol addiction division) as a true method of AUD elimination. KYB, think that your experience regarding TSM is exactly what the scientific community now has in mind as a primary tool for the elimination (or reduction) is the real disease of AUD. I further think that the NIH has in mind the use of drugs such as a new version of Baclofen in extended release form, a new drug ADX71441 (temp name), Gabapentin, and several other drugs. These medications are not only being proposed for the onset of initial cravings, but as an adjunct to assist with comorbid diseases such as anxiety, depression, and insomnia. And all of these newer medications are being considered according to one's individual genetic map. IMO, the future of alcohol minimization leading to future alcohol elimination has never looked more promising that it does today.

YKB, these are just my thoughts and thank you for continuing to bring TSM methods to light on this site.

SF

[Spiritfree]

And YKB, I think that you have been basically right regarding TSM and its huge potential upside to AUD sufferers. Unfortunately and regrettably, I have been part of being one of the naysayers and I apologize. Turns out you have been probably right about the TSM protocol (now and future) that can help MANY AUD sufferers and too few have taken notice. (and I was closed minded -which I thought that I have overcome). I wish you much wellness and I hope that you continue sharing your TSM experience -you have the real potential to help many that visit this site.

[YouKayBee]

Spirit

I have never said I think that TSM has great potential. I have only reported my experiences.

I was also NOT afraid to be abstenance, I didn't experience any "brain shock" and in fact I abstenance was always my ideal and my goal.

I was so, so, so fed up with alcohol that I would do ANYTHING to get rid of it and that anything was to drink - drinking was the last thing I wanted to do. I hated the stuff and the effect it had on my life. I had had a couple of AF stints, each time I struggled with the cravings and I saw them as my biggest problem. TSM required me to drink so I drank. Sure once it became safe I drank out of novelty and "Oh I can join in with society", but soon I realised I no longer wanted it, so I commited to becoming AF.

Early on in AUD is a really interesting one.

Over the festive period someone who was close to me for approximately 2-3 years 8 years ago, reminded me of the place I had been to with alcohol. Until then and until I started to access memories of him begging me not to drink, me pushing my way past him, past someone who loved me to then go drink with a load of bums in a rough bar, him coming to my house and me drunk and confused at all times of day, behaving badly being sick, unable to attend a really important exam because I didn't have the strength to get out of my flat without passing out........and that is just the tip of the iceberg, I had 8 years of really serious stuff and alcohol was a problem from the age of 16. I had my first blackout at 17, first drunk vomit at that age. Always blackouts, always ill, crying, hiding cans because my recycling was overflowing, waking up paranoid, abusive in drink, deciding to drink instead of going to work even when I was under an attendance warning. Waking up not knowing where I was, on nights out being picked up by the police asleep/passed out on benches in a summer dress. Falling down the stairs, falling onto the fire, overdoses, walking in front of lorries because I was drunk and didn't care, waking up with a smashed nose because I think I tripped and bust my nose on the doorstep, collapsing in a supermarket hungover. All sorts of things and I tried all sorts of things to quit.

Sheer miracle that I am here and alive.

Ten years ago I was told by a hospital consultant that I would not make it, that because of my drinking I would not live to the age I am now. 18 years of problematic drinking, final 8 years out and out alcoholic.

I also know of someone who drank very differently to me, no binges, daily drinker for 30 years who has used TSM and experienced the same miracle. Their life like their drinking was very different to mine, but they experienced a very similar effect.

I don't care whether it's a cure all, I do care that it's made available for those who wish to try and it is being made available as Selincro in the UK on the NHS (state health service). If it saves one life that is good enough for me - it has saved mine.

[YouKayBee]

I also only ever really wanted support from the forum.

Nalmefene (improved version of Naltrexone) has been discussed on a national radio programme this evening. I felt they missed the point, and having looked up guidance for Drs on this treatment, I have a sneaking feeling they really are missing the point. They are trying to say that psychological support and intervention make the difference, not the medication. I disagree with this because I had years of psychosocial intervention and support and I still couldn't beat the alcohol. Naltrexone and my own understanding of the process, which most health professionals didn't know about, plus a pig-headed determination to live did. I was also frustrated at the programme who did not mention the provision and availability of private therapy. Many people in the UK do think you need to go via your GP (personal Dr), when in fact there are thousands of therapists whom you can approach and hire yourself. Many of which register with professional bodies, or are recommended by word of mouth. There are also many charities and other organisations offering counselling or addiction advice - not all 12 step, some work on harm reduction and other models.

I think the radio station just wanted to waffle on a bit. They were partly right about society needs to change it's attitude towards alcohol, however a person who reduces their drinking can often start to find their whole outlook and social circle changes, life stops being centred on drinking alcohol.

Nalmefene could be seen as a threat to our lovely brewing industry!

[sunshinedaisies]

Well I've been to my addiction doctor today and I'm back on NAL. (UK)


I just have to be careful I don't take anything with codeine it it.

Hi there - I was wondering how you are doing ? I am also curious - why can you not take codeine ? is it just because it wouldn't work? I started Nal three weeks ago and so far am noticing a reduction in my AL intake. I have also joined the TSM site and it is good to see others journeys - I am interested in how you go this time round,

hugs, Sun xx

[badger]

Hi there - I was wondering how you are doing ? I am also curious - why can you not take codeine ? is it just because it wouldn't work? I started Nal three weeks ago and so far am noticing a reduction in my AL intake. I have also joined the TSM site and it is good to see others journeys - I am interested in how you go this time round,

Sun,

Nal blocks the effects of opiates in the same way it blocks dopamine (which is what we want in TSM), so if you take them whilst you have Nal in your system, they don't work. also, if you have opiates in your system & take Nal, then the effects of the opiates are blocked - rapidly - which can cause withdrawal

whilst you're taking Nal, it's a good idea to carry a medical card in your wallet. that way, paramedics or other medical staff will know to use non-opiate drugs if you're not in a condition to be able to tell them yourself

-badger

[sunshinedaisies]

Thanks Badger - if the effects of the opiates are blocked rapidly and it causes withdrawal - I am confused - withdrawal from what ? I am sorry if I am being a tad dense but I really do not understand - I can understand the codeine not working but I don't understand the withdrawal bit ....

Sun xx

[badger]

Thanks Badger - if the effects of the opiates are blocked rapidly and it causes withdrawal - I am confused - withdrawal from what ? I am sorry if I am being a tad dense but I really do not understand - I can understand the codeine not working but I don't understand the withdrawal bit ....

Sun,

there are two scenarios:

1. if you've taken Nal & then take opiates, the Nal will block the effects of the opiates

2. if you've taken an opiate - such as Codeine - & then take Nal, it will rapidly block the effects of the opiate & potentially cause withdrawal (from the opiate)

hope that's a bit clearer

-badger

[YouKayBee]

It removes the effect of the opiate, so your pain returns OR if you are physically dependent on opiates which is possible if they have been used long-term, then I would guess that you would go through 'withdrawl' symptoms in pretty much the same way a person dependent on alcohol who then has it taken away does.

If using TSM opiate painkillers just won't work, and medical staff if they do not know might give you so much it kills you. Luckily this never came up whilst I was actively using TSM. I do however have a personal policy of not wanting any opiate near my body, prescribed or otherwise and I will do everything I can to avoid that. Obvious if a serious emergency arises I will relent, but until then I will keep away! Same goes for benzos but that is another topic.

Back to me I am still AF(over 18 months without any alcohol), completely abstenant and am comfortable with that. I don't use naltrexone because I don't drink. I am having further personal therapy, and I am seriously considering going to some AA meetings. I just feel I might benefit from the in-person company and support there. I have attended previously although it didn't get me sober, and I do believe many wise words are said there. I tend to filter out the useful stuff from any recovery approach and stick it in my tool box and AA is no different.

I may be moving to live with my partner, and he has decided of his own accord to work through his remaining wine cellar without replacing any of it. He drinks so little these days that he can't see the point in buying more, we have built a life without alcohol. We both drive when we want to, I want to go to non-alcohol-centred events and get up to a day full of activity, and so it's weaned it's way out of his life too.

He was a moderate to heavish drinking, and this has happened just via my drinking changing.

[summerglow]

Sun,

there are two scenarios:

1. if you've taken Nal & then take opiates, the Nal will block the effects of the opiates

2. if you've taken an opiate - such as Codeine - & then take Nal, it will rapidly block the effects of the opiate & potentially cause withdrawal (from the opiate)

hope that's a bit clearer

-badger

Only just spotted this question and thanks for answering for me as I sort of understood but couldn't explain it .

NAL is working and not taking any pain relief.....

[YouKayBee]

Ok, I went to AA last night and I truly do not think it is for me. Before I tried TSM I had attended many AA meetings, and had made some very good friends there. One or two I see outside.

Last night I felt an atmosphere of dourness, struggle and that their way was the only way. I know if you pressure me (which is what I felt), that I won't do it and it's not because I want to have a drink, it's just how I am as a person.

The illness and disease model no longer fits which I feel is a result of the counselling approach I am training in. I could empathise with some of what was shared and discussed but it isn't my view of recovery.

I now know I am training in the right model for me, and that I have shifted massively since 2010, which was the last time I found help in the rooms.

[sunshinedaisies]

Thanks for trying to explain - I do now - I did understand the opiate not working if one had taken Nal but couldn't understand why one would have withdrawal - I was thinking just something for pain but yes if someone had a habit of the opiate then it makes sense !! I didn't click with someone being addicted to something like codeine - sorry!!

Summerglow - glad that the Nal is working for you again .... it definitely is working for me. It is an odd feeling because the mind still wants the drink right now, but the body doesn't! Yesterday the body won out - there was no way that I could have had another drink! I am seeing a reduction in my intake definitely ! Haven't had an AF day but the way things are going, I am not too worried about that.

Sorry the AA meeting didn't work out for you YKB - that sort of thing is not for me anyway, even if I lived in a place where I could be anonymous ! Where I live, folk would see my car parked there .... I have only have done my drinking at home so no-one that knows me knows I have any sort of problem! At work, they know that I like a Guinness, but that is the extent of it - I don't do hangovers !!

Badger - I had heard about carrying a card saying that one is on Nal but I do not do so - do you ?

have a great day everyone,

hugs, Sun XX

[summerglow]

Sunshine

I like what you said about the mind still wanting to drink but the body does not.....same is happening to me.

I'm doing what someone else said on here, don't push it and let the science work!

Summer