dosing schedule to beat insomnia?

[its a trip]

I'm still at 275 after around a month and suffering with terrible insomnia. Now that my dose is at a balanced rate for this length of time I'm at a lose as to what to do. I've tried a 5 dose schedule and a 4 dose one.

4 dose... 6/9/12/3
5 dose... 7/9/11/1/3

Anything after this and im in for a really terrible night of it. Its barely tolerable at this schedule with maybe 2-3 hours of sleep with maybe 1 or 2 thrown in threw out the night.

I've came to the point where I just can't dose after 2/3pm or I won't get a wink of sleep ALL night long. I'm not joking, I'll be up all night in a semi state of what I can only call hallucinationing in and out of unconciseness.

Baclofen seems to be giving me a weird SE where I'm a zombie but once my eyes shut I'm shot straight out of it? I can't sleep during the day I'm just too buzzed on the bac. I can't keep my eyes open during the day if I sit down for more than 10 minutes. I'm not too had if up and about but reading or trying to watch TV is impossible. I just nod in and out of unconsciousness.

I haven't rushed things and don't think titrating down would help me.

I have started antabuse last week. I hope this sorts out the drinking. I really think its what i might need. Baclofen and a 3-4 bottle of wine hangover was seriously messing with my mental wellbeing. Craving have gotten way better but I still break when I get caught up in them and sadly I'm not one of those that baclofen has slowed down their drinking.

I have no luck with sleep meds I just pray things get better. At this point I'd happily take 5 hours of unbroken sleep. Its been months since I've had anything like that. People have commented that I look like I can barely keep my eyes open when they're looking at me.

[Alky]

How about consulting a physician instead of a self-appointed panel of experts on an internet forum? I never went nearly as high as you did, but like you I did continue to drink alcoholically while on HDB. It took involuntary confinement to a psych ward, a detox unit and a trip to the emergency room for a probable detox seizure (3 separate occurrences) to snap me to my senses and convince me to seek proper medical and psychological help.

By the way, one of the best things they did for me at detox was safely titrate me back down to a better tolerated dose of baclofen.

[its a trip]

Not sure I need a detox alky. Its been a week since I've had a week since I've a had a drink. If you mean a detox to get off bac I've no intention of doing that.

I only ask for advice on here as it seems the best place for experienced users who have gone through this before. A GP isn't gonna be any help where I live as they wouldn't be in most countries. They'll just tell you to stop taking baclofen.

Cut down and if needs be a 2 week supply of librium is what you get here. Maybe a talk with an alcohol/drug concelor. Any experience I've had with them leads me to think they don't really know what they're talking about, they're reading from a script IMO.

A psychologist I couldn't afford. They arnt a big here like in the states and need to be referred to thought NHS IF you can't afford to go private, which I couldn't. Against I'm not sure how this would help me. I know why I'd do what I do. And I feel the way I do because of it. The baclofen issues from what gathered are not totally new and I know I'm a Guinea pig but thems the breaks a guess.

Its early here. I got a sleep at 1am after literally dropping my tablet numerous times from nodding off and coming to. So I made the efford to just get the head down. I think I slept till around 5ish. Not sure, I try not to look at the clock anymore and try to keep trying to get back to sleep. That being said 4 hours is the best in over a week easy. I think my body was just so tired.

I'd like to add to my opening post that I must be getting some kind of sleep. Its just so broken I can't really tell what's real and what's not. I think I dream (always a good sign) but at the same time my mind is going 100 mile an hour when not sleeping so this could be me thinking I am dreaming?! I'm so mentally exhausted first thing in the morning. Not having a clue about what day it is and such and such. Stance SE I'm gettings is that every day I wake (for want of a better word) I always think it's Saturday!?

Going without sleep or drifting in and out for a whole night can seriously mess with your head. I went thought it a lot when younger with drugs. To the new comer it might all seems bit too far out and just too much to handle.

I'd also like to add that my first 2 to 3 doses of baclofen don't really effect me. Its what some might experience as having a strong dose of coffee first thing? Mayne cause its been a while since my last dose? Its from the after noon into the evening I start to get a bit weird. I've tried going 5-6 hours between doses which doesn't really make a difference apart from me not getting any sleep and having to take big doses as I'm on a big dose. Even after my last dose at around 2/3pm I can still fell the baclofen at work running through me even at night time 7 hours later. So what I take from that is that its just the total amount floating around my CNS. The whole half life/ plasma life in my experience any way, doesn't seem to be the norm for me.

On the French site they are really into targeting your cravings through keeping you peak plasma at such a level that your basically at your peak ( every 2.5ish hours) from the start of your dosing up until around 2 hours before your witching hour.

I don't really buy totally into that as I said above. From my experiece, its what I have in my system is that what seems to count. I don't know maybe not. Who knows. I haven't reached indifference yet. IMO what matters is tailoring your dose to get some f**king sleep!!!

The antabuse combo and the bac seem to be the answer for me at this particular stage in my journey. I tried antabuse a few years back and for the days after I took the first tablet I was craving the walls waing for it to leave my system to have a drink!

The baclofen seems to have taken I'd guess around 80%? Of the cravings away but if I break its bombs away and a session is on the cards no holds barred. The antabuse seems be kills those slight voices I still have which slip thought the baclofen barrier and tbh its easy to let go of them.

HDB and drinking went gonna do it for me. I was a f**king mess mentally the day after and if I keep drinking for another even 2-3 it was batten down the hatches time and ride out the mental torture of borderline psychosis.

Shit that was long post I spent most of the time having to reedit it as I'm using a tablet stiing in bed

I dont want to seem like a total but job! I could have added 1 or 2 things more but I don't wat to scare people away!. Its now 7.30am here and I think a decent time to be getting up!

[its a trip]

Thanks Palladium.

I don't pay to much attention to the french protocol either. (targeting cravings) Its just that my current dosing plan is the only way I can get 275 into my system before a time where I can find it possible to get any sleep at all. The french forum is strange but they've a lot of success and some awesome PDFs. I don't' agree with a lot of the posts (the ones I can understand through Google translate). Where i do agree with a lot of them is that if your having sleep issues make sure you have your last dose around 5 hours (which isn't even enough for me) before your sleep time. Some of them must be in the same boat as me. I've read it numerous times over there. This puts those in a position of being in a high dose range of being in a tight spot.

Your basically trying to get you total into you 5 hours (or whatever it may take) before your bedtime. I personally don't like staying up to after 12. I LOVE my sleep. I'm just playing it by feel and my body is telling me that its not gonna play ball.

I've tried spacing 5-6 hours apart and it brings you right up to night time which is the problem I'm basically having... Insomnia. The french prescription guide that the PDF is translated to English... (8 a.m. 1 p.m. 6 p.m. At bedtime) just would not work for me.

I've had this problem from 150 up. The latest I've ever took my dose was at 7pm and I swore never again. I didn't sleep a wink all night. I mean I was up walking about the house and just basically staring at the ceiling the whole night.

Say... 6/11/4/9.. In all honesty. It would be game over for me. Taking bac at 9pm at night and I'd have to call it a day. Dosing anywhere near 6pm or after and I'm literally not going to sleep the WHOLE night.

I don't think its a problem of overdosing. The 3 dose schedule could work (6.11.4) but would IMO be more like overdosing at just under 100 a dose and wouldn't be much different than dose 50 2.5 hours apart. I don't feel out of it or drugged up thorough out the day. I can function. I go for a run each morning and can cycle where I need to go. Its just that I think I lack sleep basically and when I sit down I literally just nod off but with the bac in my system I just can't sleep. I might look drugged out but doesn't everyone when when they've been up all night?

I'll figure it out. I'm a week into he antabuse and therefore a week AF. This can only help. I know I'm not alone and I appreciate the suggestions. I think HDB is in a whole other world than normal Baclofen hence we basically only have around 5 or so years of peoples experiences and a few studies. I can't see there every being a one size fits all protocol for this method. Its such a weird drug in higher dose.


Some of my SEs most will probably never experience. I know insomnia is a big SE but not the extent I'm experiencing it sadly. but I haven;t experiences half of the SEs that I've read others have had I suppose.

[Ne1]

I agree with Palladium. I experienced hypomania and chronic insomnia, as well.

I'm really glad you're not drinking. I am curious as to why you think going down wouldn't help? This seems to me to be a classic case of taking too much baclofen! Particularly since you're taking it in such a short window of time.

I started taking seroquel recently, after years of avoiding it. It was recommended to me early on as a solution for sleep when I started to experience insomnia. I wish I had started it back then. (My inability to sleep now is not related to baclofen. I just don't sleep well.) I have had amazing results with it. Like you, sleep medications didn't work or made me feel drugged and groggy.

I used benadryl when I was titrating up for short term relief. I forget what it's called in the UK. Perhaps that would give you some relief now?

Sleep is paramount to success and sanity, in my opinion. I would also really highly recommend immaculate sleep hygiene. Going to bed at the same time every night, turning off all electronics, using guided meditations or something similar to help calm your mind, using routine to establish for your brain when it's time to shut down. Those are long term solutions, but you could start them now to see if that helps at all.

Finally, I think that if there isn't an immediate solution that helps or you can't do it on your own, a visit to AE might help. I still am unclear how your system works, but they should be able to at least give you something in the short term so that you can sleep?

Hang in there! The insomnia got better for me, but it took a while and some very active steps.

[its a trip]

At 275 for around a month I think my body had gotten used to the dose and I think if I was having any real problems it would have let me know by now (sleep issues aside)

I'll hang around at this dose for another while yet. IF my sleep sorts itself out (hopefully AF might help) I'll move up and reach for indifference. But not the way my sleep issues are concerned. There's no rush I suppose and there's no point in putting your health at risk pushing it. I'm over 4 months in. Less than most.

If still drinking I'd be having serious doubts about continuing. I'm not sure how many of you guys still drank heavily at 250+ but I couldn't go there again. I wish I had have went the Antabuse route sooner FFS. I know at 275 I was not indifferent. I was craving less but when I broke I could drink 4 bottles of wine and LIKE it.

One thing I forgot to mention is... If things don't sort themselves out and the antabuse thing still works out. I could possible move down slowly to a dose there I though I was still getting the benefits of the anti craving effects and the antabuse as a fall back for when the cravings break through as they do occasionally.

I think its Skullbabyland who went this route?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

At 275 for around a month I think my body had gotten used to the dose and I think if I was having any real problems it would have let me know by now (sleep issues aside)

I think maybe your body is telling you that it's a problem because of the sleep issues! But I can see that you're committed to what you're working on.

I drank pretty heavily up into the high 200s. Like you, I really don't recommend it! It was harrowing. And probably not very safe.

Keep in touch and let us know how it goes, okay?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

(By the way, sorry for switching usernames. My private messages access for this account--Ne/Neva Eva--doesn't work, and I was exchanging private messages with someone so I used the account from when I was locked out for a while--Ne1. But we are one and the same formerly alcoholic chick! Sorry for any confusion. I'll get it fixed sometime soon so it doesn't seem like I'm trolling.)

[its a trip]

Hey Ne.

The short window of time thing is sadly all that's working for me. 5-6 hours between doses isn't gonna do it for me. To get any sleep at all I need to have my last dose before 3pm. Its been like this for months. I don't know why but it is what it is.

Trazadone and Mirtazapine also in the past with no luck. Benadryl like most antihistamines are like sugar pills to me. Benzos give me insomnia believe it or not. The only time where I ever got 8 hours sleep was after a 2-3 weeks alcohol and drug free.

I've been on 275 for a month with these symptoms athough I was drinking heavily until last week. If its too much Bac I suppose the answer is to go down... go up. or stay put? Staying put I suppose is the best solution now that I'm not drinking.

Edit... Seraquel I don't think I have tried. I remember being at a party once a a girl giving me one as I was going home saying if you can't sleep this WILL do the trick. I never took as as back then I was anti script drugs (the hypocrisy of it if you only knew!)

[its a trip]

I suppose I could go 5/9/12/4 at 4 hour windows. I'm up at 5am anyway as it is After 4pm I really couldn't do another dose honest to christ! So 5 hour windows are out never mind 6.

[its a trip]

Also sorry guys for keeping posting but I'm sorry if you guys gathered from my original post that I might feel like I might need to go to ER. I'm fully functioning! Just at 60ish% I'm in no danger (that I know of) apart from going mad with tiredness I've been at 275 for a month.

I' go about my daily routine. Run an hour every day. And cycle anywhere I need to go. ALL my problems (I think) are sleep related. Bac or no bac if you kept anyone to 2-3 hours sleep a night they're be running on empty and looking a little zoned out.

Where I get the energy I don't know. I read somewhere your body sooner or later gets some amount of sleep or you basically can't survive. Its my mind that seems to not getting enough rest. Hence the mental exhaustion.

The hallucinating think might have freaked you out. I'm sorry if it did. But sleep deprivation does this to me. Been there in my youth.

[its a trip]

I think maybe your body is telling you that it's a problem because of the sleep issues! But I can see that you're committed to what you're working on.

I drank pretty heavily up into the high 200s. Like you, I really don't recommend it! It was harrowing. And probably not very safe.

Keep in touch and let us know how it goes, okay?

Will do Ne.

[spiritwolf333]

Try Gabapentin

[its a trip]

I'm too far invested in this to back out now spirit. Believe I've thought about it many times but at the dose I'm at, indifference might be just around the corner. With my current regimen of antabuse helping me thw journey might get easier. Now much north of 300 say closer to 400 and I'd have to reavaluate things.

[Lostinspace]

I would second what Ne said about the seroquel. I had already been on it, thanks to years of suffering the kind of insomnia you describe, prior to starting baclofen. So I never experienced the dreaded bac insomnia. I've also tried trazodone, mirtazapine, ambien, etc. etc. ad nauseum, and nothing else worked. I completely understand the madness that lack of sleep brings on, so please don't apologize. It's not a stretch at all to say that it might be causing all your problems. Sleep is very important. I've been sent home from work for lack of sleep on more than one occasion. Luckily, I wasn't fired. My boss was very understanding as I was at least able to explain where my bizarre behavior was coming from and to assure him that I was seeing a doctor for it.

That said, drinking makes everything worse. You said that you've gotten good sleep after two to three weeks alcohol and drug free? I found that seroquel improved my sleep somewhat (I got a good four or five or so hours a night, instead of two) when I was still drinking. It was only when I went AF on seroquel that I finally started to get a good night sleep for the first time in years. I've unfortunately been drinking again recently, and my god does it show in my sleep patterns - or lack thereof! I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you. I wish you the best. I know how painful it is. Keep posting about how you're doing.