The Sinclair Method

[Snapdragon]

Is there an up-to-date Sinclair Method thread on any of the forums here? I've search but can't find anything.

Anyway, I've done lots of research in the last couple of days and decided to try The Sinclair Method (I had heard about this in the past but didn't understand it).

There is a really good documentary HERE which explains how it works (I find it really inspiring)

I've ordered nalmefene and am just waiting for it to arrive. It would be good to chat to others who are already doing TSM so I can ask a few questions.

[YouKayBee]

Hi Snapdragon

I am sure there's a thread I contributed to not too far away from here. I found much success with TSM, it saved my life. When I was doing it Nalmefene wasn't available, so I used good old naltrexone. My one biggest tip is this;

Once you start never drink without it.

That is the protocol I used and one of the reasons most people seem to not find success with it is that they have sessions where they don't take it. I also know of some who did find success, figured they were ok now, drank without it, were ok at first, but soon went rapidly downhill.

It's a simple technique, 1 tablet 1 hour before drinking and if you have non-drinking day then no need to take it.

I had 2 years of safe drinking thanks to TSM, and I now have 15 months completely AF. I no longer take naltrexone because I don't drink, simple as that.

Good luck and feel free to ask questions, my experience is only with naltrexone however the principle I believe is the same.

[Snapdragon]

Thank you YouKayBee, I really hope that this works for me. One thing that intrigues me is if the nalmefene takes away the buzz of drinking, why people would want to drink at all when taking it. I have read of people still drinking excessively in the first few months of taking it. I suppose I will soon find out. I'm hoping it arrives today!

[YouKayBee]

I would answer that question with two reasons;

1. Naltrexone doesn't always work that quickly for everyone, some see an initial drop then the desire returns for a while.
2. You are breaking a long term psychological habit, as humans we can override whatever our bodies tell us, and I believe there are two stages to quitting first being getting rid of the physical craving which is what I think TSM does, then it's up to yourself to get through the mental/emotional/psychological drive to drink alcohol. Indeed many TSMers found that enforced AF days after the initial couple of months of reduced drinking really sped them along in the process, and I think that is because it 'broke' the habit of having a few drinks.

Yes the reason I decided to quit entirely was because I was getting nothing from it, I was drinking 'just because I could' and I wasn't prepared to risk any backslide.

[guapo]

I would answer that question with two reasons;

1. Naltrexone doesn't always work that quickly for everyone, some see an initial drop then the desire returns for a while.
2. You are breaking a long term psychological habit, as humans we can override whatever our bodies tell us, and I believe there are two stages to quitting first being getting rid of the physical craving which is what I think TSM does, then it's up to yourself to get through the mental/emotional/psychological drive to drink alcohol. Indeed many TSMers found that enforced AF days after the initial couple of months of reduced drinking really sped them along in the process, and I think that is because it 'broke' the habit of having a few drinks.

Yes the reason I decided to quit entirely was because I was getting nothing from it, I was drinking 'just because I could' and I wasn't prepared to risk any backslide.

Second that. Desire to drink has faded almost completely away (which is GOOD), small amounts of something tasty can still occur, but even that has become rare.

Most people who do this and succeed just get on with their lives and rarely post or need a support system as they don't see it as a problem anymore, or worry about "relapse" or "recovering" etc.

You ask yourself what you are missing by not drinking as before, and the answer is "nothing".

[YouKayBee]

Second that. Desire to drink has faded almost completely away (which is GOOD), small amounts of something tasty can still occur, but even that has become rare.

Most people who do this and succeed just get on with their lives and rarely post or need a support system as they don't see it as a problem anymore, or worry about "relapse" or "recovering" etc.

You ask yourself what you are missing by not drinking as before, and the answer is "nothing".

That is how I feel most of the time, I do however miss being able to disappear into a bottle for hours or days and sometimes feel like drinking for the sheer hell of it, but I can reason it out and just get on with my life. Being straight, facing up to life 24/7/365 is flipping hard. The only drug I consume is caffeine and I even limit that!

[guapo]

True that YouKB, but better nonetheless

[spiritwolf333]

I think that we will find methods such as The Sinclair Method and similar becoming much more acceptable and valuable in the years to come. In fact, most, if not all medications on this site do the exact same - give the chemically (or otherwise) addicted some form of a better choice as to drink, not drink, or make a better decision as to when to quit.

Why will these methods become more popular and succeed?
In my opinion, when you first tell an alcoholic or other addict that he or she must quit taking the substance of abuse -forever, then their (our) brains go berserk. Our brains continue to remember -for long periods of time -that 'wow, I was forced (or needed to force oneself) to quit using xyz and it did such a great job of doing xyz -and now I am suffering because I don't take xyz. Why am I allowing my self to suffer like this? I can just go get substance and feel ok again.' However, if you give the brain enough period of time to adjust -without the shock of the 'quit forever term', then one will probably have a much better chance of succeeding in not drinking or xyz forever.

Here is a link to a recent (October 2014) Newsweek article about moderation:

http://www.newsweek.com/pill-could-help-alcoholics-and-let-them-drink-moderation-278112

Initially, I looked at my situation as a must quit forever in order to survive proposition -it, several times, was only a self-imposed regulation. At the time, from what I read about the TSM, it seemed like a simple cop-out, excuse to keep drinking. I now consider that 'closed minded thinking' on my part.

And Guapo -perhaps there are a few that find meaning in trying to help others with the disease that fast approaching taking their lives. Regardless, you are right, most people that recover from this horrific disease and just move on as if they did not have it in the first place. I guess this may be why alcoholism is such a silent but deadly killer? But then again, surely most have had underlying circumstances for drinking/drugging in the first place -and I have to believe that issues have to be addressed -and usually with help? Just a thought.

[guapo]

Why will these methods become more popular and succeed?
In my opinion, when you first tell an alcoholic or other addict that he or she must quit taking the substance of abuse -forever, then their (our) brains go berserk. Our brains continue to remember -for long periods of time -that 'wow, I was forced (or needed to force oneself) to quit using xyz and it did such a great job of doing xyz -and now I am suffering because I don't take xyz. Why am I allowing my self to suffer like this? I can just go get substance and feel ok again.' However, if you give the brain enough period of time to adjust -without the shock of the 'quit forever term', then one will probably have a much better chance of succeeding in not drinking or xyz forever.

.

Completely agree. Having "adjusted" to not drinking daily and achieving insight, indifference has resulted.

"Relapsing" is not on the table, nor is "one day at a time" since the desire to drink for it's own sake is gone. Every day is a good day. If an occasion should arise to drink anything, the Naltrexone functions to make further drinking both unenjoyable and unimaginable. So, I hardly ever drink, which to me is just fine.

During the "extinction" process, ways of dealing with daily life and issues WITHOUT alcohol occur. Support groups and daily affirmations and such don't apply as there is no desire to get drunk, escape, etc.

It's worked for me and many in the Sinclair Method world, but it's intriguing that there are so many Baclofen zealots on here.

I read Dr Olivers book, and I get the point, but holy cr-- it seems complicated, with the titrating and side effects, not to mention taking it EVERY DAY.

I share your hope that these methods will become known as they offer another way out of the mess we found ourselves in.

[spiritwolf333]

Completely agree. Having "adjusted" to not drinking daily and achieving insight, indifference has resulted.

"Relapsing" is not on the table, nor is "one day at a time" since the desire to drink for it's own sake is gone. Every day is a good day. If an occasion should arise to drink anything, the Naltrexone functions to make further drinking both unenjoyable and unimaginable. So, I hardly ever drink, which to me is just fine.

During the "extinction" process, ways of dealing with daily life and issues WITHOUT alcohol occur. Support groups and daily affirmations and such don't apply as there is no desire to get drunk, escape, etc.

It's worked for me and many in the Sinclair Method world, but it's intriguing that there are so many Baclofen zealots on here.

I read Dr Olivers book, and I get the point, but holy cr-- it seems complicated, with the titrating and side effects, not to mention taking it EVERY DAY.

I share your hope that these methods will become known as they offer another way out of the mess we found ourselves in.

Hi Guapo -your post(s) and information therein is exactly the type of information that people should have access to. You see, I am at the point that I truly do understand and accept that there is no one single simple answer to AUD (alcohol use disorder/aka-alcoholism). But I do believe one very important fact; when you tell an addict that his/her support medication (drug) is going to have to go away forever, you then have a person (brain) that goes into survival mode (using rebellion, fight, blah-blah-blah).

Guapo -taking the medication every day is not a bad thing, especially considering the fact that one may suffer from conditions that helped create the addiction in the first place -and the medication helps resolve these issues. What can be sometimes discouraging is the fact some on this forum think there way is the 'only' way and they will become very antagonistic with you if you disagree with their methodology or opinions. With this said, we must all try and realize that most people posting on this site are only doing so in the spirit of helping others (including themselves) and we are all doing the best we can -with what we have- at the particular moment that we are here (this applies to all).

Thank you for posting your experience.
SW

[guapo]

"Guapo -taking the medication every day is not a bad thing, especially considering the fact that one may suffer from conditions that helped create the addiction in the first place -and the medication helps resolve these issues. What can be sometimes discouraging is the fact some on this forum think there way is the 'only' way and they will become very antagonistic with you if you disagree with their methodology or opinions. With this said, we must all try and realize that most people posting on this site are only doing so in the spirit of helping others (including themselves) and we are all doing the best we can -with what we have- at the particular moment that we are here (this applies to all)."

Precisely, SW. My thought was to encourage snapdragon in his/her efforts. It must be noted, the Sinclair Method has been around since 2006 or so, yet is still off the radar for the most part, as are most other medication approaches.

It's good you take the time on here to try to educate people, and arouse discussions.

Of course, nothing is best for everybody, and there are many ways to approach this. That being said, I spent a lot of time Reading, and listening to what people have to say. There are many pros and cons, and people have very very very strong opinions about what they believe to be true.

The Reddit posts are very interesting as well.


Perhaps most importantly, we now have choices, and can decide for ourselves what we feel is best.

[YouKayBee]

I agree and disagree.

Beauty of TSM is that once you go through extinction (the removal of cravings process), then yes you no longer need to use Nal daily (the medication) to maintain that effect - you only need use it IF and only IF you consume alcohol, which at that point you can easily make a choice over.

I do however believe that use of support (which this site is), and other 'sobriety' tools can be useful and even required alongside TSM. This could simply be in the form of "I must take this tablet before I drink because I want to get better". Yes, some people don't adhere to the method because they decide TSM/Nal is spoiling their fun, it's spoiling their enjoyment of food/sex/whatever and that also includes enjoyment of alcohol. Or they have a spike, which I had and assume it's not working, so might as well drink without it, or they achieve extinction and think they can drink alcohol without it because they are fixed.

These are all classic examples of our human brain overridding the physical, and I think doing things like keeping yourself safe, going to bed early, making sure you have eaten properly, generally looking after yourself and remembering why you started TSM in the first place is really important.

Perhaps other people didn't need to do this and that is fair enough but I used simple tools to make drinking harder for myself, learning I don't have to drink, and also reminding myself that I wanted to get better, didn't want to live as I had been doing in order that I always took a dose before I drank alcohol, every single time no excuses. It was also a big player in my decision to quit completely.

I do miss disappearing into a bottle and I did find it hard a couple of years on, because I was used to taking a cop-out when things got hard in real life.....and I no longer have that 'time out'. I also do not have the consquences of drinking, but when I am tempted I remind myself (a) Thanks to TSM I don't actually like drinking alcohol or any of the drinking process and (b) I am not willing to risk anything going backwards.

Making that choice is not difficult because I have the physical drive removed.

[guapo]

Well YKB, your post is illuminating. I agree with spirit wooluff and the whole idea of slowly weaning from alcohol in order to develop a new relationship with alcohol and life in general.

Immediate and permanent abstinence, as was suggested to me a year and a half ago led me to find naltrexone and this method. Knowing I absolutely couldn't drink anything, would've made it the forbidden fruit, and always desired.

Instead, this approach led to the complete lack of desire for alcohol, and even if I do drink a little on occasion, it never leads back to where I was. To me that's a win.

It's abundantly clear, that drinking as I did, was catastrophically bad. A life of forced abstinence to me, would also be catastrophically bad. Now, I have a choice.

It's mystifying, that the Sinclair method thread has not picked up momentum or speed since it started in 2009. Judging from this forum as well, it appears that the pharmaceutical approach is only used by a tiny minority of those fixing their alcohol problem.

The success rate is touted to be somewhere in the 75% range, but careful review of that forum reveals that to be far from true. As a matter of fact, A not insignificant number of people tried baclofen or went to baclofen after Naltrexone.

What it means to me, is that there is no one good answer, and nobody really knows what's best.

[Snapdragon]

Hi Spirit Wolf, Guapo and YouKayBee - I am now on Day 5 of TSM (early days I know) I am taking the new form of Nal called Nalmefine (Selincro) which is now approved in the UK and prescribed by the NHS. I already notice a huge difference - my cravings are really low and the desire to drink has waned on its own. I have had two AF days and have only had 9 glasses of wine in 5 days (compared to my normal 2 bottles a night!) It is almost as if because I am given the go-ahead to drink as much as I like while taking Nal - the desire has gone away a bit too (perhaps that's the rebellious side of my addiction). Last night, poured away my second glass of wine half way down. I just didn't feel like drinking it - a first for me!!

I get what you say about taking drugs forever seems daunting, however, the way I see it, if I can get to be 99% AF which is what I hope by taking this pill then I actually won't be taking any drugs much at all. You only take the pill if you are going to drink alcohol - and as your addiction is cured, you will no longer feel like drinking anyway. For me, the psychological aspect of this is what really helps. One thing that has been hard for me (and I know a lot of other people here) is the thought that I can NEVER drink again EVER - otherwise I will be back to square one. TSM takes away this fear. I can live my life AF eventually, but by carrying one emergency pill with me, I know that if a situation arose where I did feel the need or want to have a drink, as long as I take the pill an hour before, my brain won't receive the endorphin which feeds addiction.

Also for me - because of watching the documentary 'One little Pill' - my husband finally understands my addiction and why I behave like I do with alcohol (he was on the verge of giving up on me). He supports me 100% with TSM now. I'm so glad I saw this film as I think it might be what saves my life. If anyone else is interested you can view it here - https://vimeo.com/ondemand/onelittlepill

[spiritwolf333]

Hi Snap -this is great information to report and thank you for doing so.