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**See the Light** · November 9, 2014, 07:36 AM

Welcome back TC..I remember when you left here over a month ago and it didn't sound good...that's awesome you have come so far with 50 AF days! There are dozens of Bac threads in the Meds section you should read, and tons of folks with good experiences to share..I wish you the best that you stay on the path you are on because it is likely saving your life...stick around this time

**TooCurious** · November 9, 2014, 12:16 PM

Thanks for the responses. See the Light - yeah I have no recollection of practically any of my relapse, so if I posted on here I wouldn't know lol. But yes, it was terrible. I've read a ton of the threads on here about baclofen and some have been very inspirational. Others have had pretty frightening experiences. And I'm planning on sticking around this time!

Fred - yeah I've noticed some subtle stuff like just being forgetful (leaving stuff in the car etc.) but for now it's not bad. Hopefully it doesn't get problematic as I creep into the 100mg+ zone. I'm hoping I don't have to go up too high, but I'm also leaving that possibility open. Hopefully as my tolerance continues to develop, my schoolwork will seem normal and I'll still do well. I've definitely got the consistency part down.

I'm going to begin researching the potency of generic brands of baclofen manufactured outside the USA/EU, because I've been somewhat worried about that. I know I'm not alone because I read a thread on here by terryk on the topic. Any more news about that? I'm in an intensive out-patient program coupled with individual therapy, but I'm avoiding 12-step programs this time around. Not exactly sure why...just after going for so long and repeatedly failing I'm almost repulsed by the idea of them now. I'll provide an update in a couple days!

**Lostinspace** · November 9, 2014, 07:14 PM

Congratulations on the 50 AF days TooCurious! That's awesome! It's really wonderful to see you've had such a dramatic and positive change

I haven't reached my switch yet, either, but I can tell you that the honeymoon period, followed by a return of cravings, is not unusual. It simply means you haven't reached your switch dose yet.

I went through something similar when I first got up to 160 mg. For about two months, I was mostly AF (having cravings, and then drinking because of it, only around once every week or two). But then about a month ago, my cravings returned and I've been struggling with putting the bottle down once again. No biggie - I'm starting to titrate up again, and will eventually hit the dose that just works for me.

As far as side effects go, yes, waking up early and not being able to return to sleep is normal. I go through the same thing. But I figure that so long as you're getting enough total sleep throughout the night, you can view that as a benefit. You get to become a morning person, and have plenty of energy to start your day

But that's IF you're already getting enough sleep. Insomnia is a very common side effect for many people.

I can't say much for side effects beyond that since I've had absolutely no bad side effects - and I'm already up to 225 mg. It seems to be very individual. Although I will say that my very slow titration, compared to the majority of people, undoubtedly played a big part in my lack of side effects. See how it goes for you. But just to echo what Fred said - the most important thing to keep in mind is that this is not a race. Go up slowly, giving your body a real chance to adjust to each dose change. If you start to have side effects that interfere with your day-to-day functioning, you can always go back down to your previous dose, hang out there for a while as you give your body a little more time to adjust to it, then increase again.

Anyway, thank you for the update. It's great to see how well you're coming along

Keep us posted.

**See the Light** · November 9, 2014, 07:29 PM

TC- at 24 your battle is not likely over, so I hope what happened to you really makes an impact on your future, and impression on your life...you may not get a 5th chance so use this opportunity to do great things for your life and those around you..please don't underestimate the power of AL...it may sneak back on you ..if it does, remember what you have gained...you can PM if you have a hard night again..I will help you if you need it...hang in there bud

**TooCurious** · November 12, 2014, 02:18 PM

Thanks Lost and SeeTheLight. I know that a lot of people say that baclofen helps them with their anxiety, but has anyone had their stress and anxiety increased while using baclofen? On Monday morning and afternoon I had to deal with some seemingly small events, but I found myself extremely anxious and stressed out. It's weird, but I think baclofen is making me more sensitive to stress. It has helped me a ton in terms of reducing alcohol cravings, and I'm sure a lot of my stress sensitivity has to do with just being in early sobriety too. I went up to 90mg yesterday, and felt tired but that only happens on the first day of a dose increase. At what dose did some of you begin to experience insomnia? Lastly, I have a psychiatrist appointment in about a week. How should I go about getting them to prescribe me baclofen? Should I bring paperwork of studies or what? And should I mention that I'm already taking baclofen and it's helping me, or is it best to avoid that for now? I'll have two months sober and one month on baclofen on the 20th! :victorious:

**StuckInCA** · November 12, 2014, 02:33 PM

Early sobriety is a bitch, to be sure. Some people feel that bac helps with their anxiety, and others find no relief or even feel an increase in anxiety. For me anxiety became an issue above 150mg/day.

You sound like you're doing pretty much what I did at first. I was sober 30 days when I started bac, and I went up steadily to 150 over the next 30 days. So at 60 days sober and on 150 I felt awesome - so I drank, of course. I also approached my general doc to see about prescribing right around that time, and she was not receptive. That might have sort of started the spiral of anxiety... Anyway, approaching your doc is a touchy subject, in my opinion. He or she probably won't want to be bothered with reading too much, so if you bring the abstracts of a couple studies, with links to the full articles, and maybe some info on how bac is an accepted treatment now in France, that should be enough.

What else...? Oh yeah, stress. I never felt a consistent effect with bac. Stress was no big deal or it was THE BIGGEST DEAL EVER. The thing to remember is that titrating up to the switch is very different from taking baclofen after the switch. It can be a tough ride up, but once the brain chemistry has been "fixed" things can sometimes get much easier. I would point you toward Ne/Neva Eva's thread except that it is 1,000,000 posts long. Anyway, hang in there buddy.

**StuckInCA** · November 12, 2014, 04:03 PM

Just now read back through this thread. Congrats on the 50(+?) days! That's awesome, man. Don't discount Post Accute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS). That kicks in pretty hard for me for about a week or so around the times AA hands out chips - 30 days, 60, 90, and 6 months (I haven't ever been sober longer than that). You probably know this already, but it's like going right back into accute withdrawal for NO F**KING REASON. And it blows, but it's possible to ride it out.

Just saying that to say that I get PAWS for about a week at a time, and if you're noticing weird increases in anxiety right now that could be a reason.

As for school, it IS possible to do schoolwork while on bac. I'm a graduate student, and I wasn't as productive while on bac as I was while sober for 7 months, but I managed more or less. The important thing is that I got more done while on bac than while drinking myself to death. Be mindful of the limitations though. Taking a class in the late afternoon/early evening isn't a great idea. The sleepiness is overwhelming and it doesn't seem like there's a damned thing you can do about it. (Energy drinks are THE WORST thing for you. They're bad anyway, but with bac they'll really f**k you up.)

So be aware of the times you're sleepy and not able to concentrate. Give yourself a break on those times. And then desperately protect the times you are able to work during the day.

Anyway, my bus ride is almost done so I'll bounce for now. Welcome and good luck, friend.

**Lostinspace** · November 12, 2014, 06:22 PM

TooCurious - some people do experience an increase in anxiety from bac, although from what I've read, that usually occurs at higher doses. It's hard to say what might be the problem for you. Early sobriety is a very tumultuous time and anxiety tends to be sky-high, both because you're learning to face life's challenges without a numbing agent, and because your body and brain are physically repairing themselves.

I never did end up having insomnia from bac, probably because I was already being prescribed seroquel for sleep before I even started on it. My insomnia back then was about as bad as it could have been. But I will say, try not to psych yourself out too much about side effects you're not currently having. I'm already up to 225 mg and have yet to experience a single negative side effect. It's good to be aware of what can happen. But just because it's happened to others, doesn't necessarily mean it will happen to you.

One thing that has really helped me is that I titrated up very slowly. I've been on bac almost five months now. I'm still not at my switch, but the lack of side effects (presumably helped by giving my body ample time to adjust) makes it worth it.

As far as seeing your psychiatrist, I would definitely bring a couple studies on high-dose bac to show him/her. I agree that they probably won't want to read much. My doctor only read the abstracts, but seeing evidence from professional journals was enough to convince him to let me give it a shot.

As to whether to tell him/her that you're already taking it? I would advise against it, unless you've known your doctor for a long time, and have a good relationship. Most doctors frown on self-medication, and they might be tempted to chalk up your success to a placebo effect. S/he might also get the impression that you can't be trusted. I could be wrong, and if I am, please someone else let me know. But I would leave that part out at your appointment.

Good luck to you. Let us know how it goes

**TooCurious** · November 20, 2014, 11:08 AM

Hey people,

So today marks two months sober and one month on bac!! :yay: I have my appointment with a psychiatrist tomorrow morning, and I hope that goes well. If anyone has some suggestions on exactly which studies would be best to bring with me I'd appreciate it. I also just went up to 110mg/day today, and other than tiredness and some mental "fog" the side effects haven't been bad. Cravings are still present but very low, fleeting thoughts at best. I've also started sleeping in 'til normal hours, which is nice because waking up really early and being unable to return to sleep was getting frustrating.

However, I'm in a bit of a bind. I have a course in which I need to take a make-up final due to one of my relapses forcing me to medically withdraw from the course just as the semester was finishing up. I need to take the final sometime in the next month, and since it's been a while I have to re-read practically everything in order to do well on it. But baclofen seems to be making it difficult for me to retain information and commit it to memory, which is obviously a big problem. So I'm debating whether or not I should begin titrating down to about 30-50mg/day just so I can take this final, and then get back up to where I am now. Any thoughts/advice about this? This make-up final is really important because if I don't do it I'll have to re-take the entire course! And it's been causing me a lot of stress. Let me know what you all think!

Hope everyone has a great day

**StuckInCA** · November 20, 2014, 07:40 PM

Congrats on the 2 months. That is awesome. As for studying, it might be 50/50 one way or the other. Changing dose seems to cause more side effects than remaining steady. You might find the fog lifts quicker by just staying steady.

That's just my opinion. Suddenly - relatively - cutting your dose in half seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

**Lostinspace** · November 20, 2014, 07:54 PM

Congratulations on the sober time TooCurious! That's beyond awesome. As far as articles to bring, there are three that I brought when I went to ask my psychiatrist to prescribe it. Unfortunately, my iPhone is being a pain, and not allowing me to copy and paste links, but if you google these titles, you'll find them:

"Suppression of alcohol dependence using baclofen: a 2-year observational study of 100 patients."

"Prescribing Guide for Baclofen in the Treatment of Alcoholism - for Use by Physicians."

Also, instead of googling, both of these articles, as well as others, are available on the "Consolidated baclofen information thread 2014" that neophyte started. If you scroll back to page 3 of the meds forum, you'll find it there.

I can't for the life of me remember the title of the third article, but it had to do with the safety of high dose baclofen. I'll keep looking for it, and if I find it, I'll come back to post it.

I'm not sure what to say about the upcoming exam. I'm sorry the bac is giving you so many problems with information retention. If you really feel you must scale back for a little while, then do what you have to do, remembering that you can always come back up in dose when you're done. But if you find the cravings returning to the point that you're having trouble with drinking once again, then obviously it would be better to struggle through the side effects. You definitely won't pass the exam if you're in the midst of a full-blown relapse.

Stuck has a really good point, too. Most people I've seen here who have suddenly dropped in dose have had many problems with it. Whatever you choose to do, don't drop too drastically, too quickly. In any case, good job on two months AF! And keep us posted on how you're doing

**terryk** · November 20, 2014, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Lostinspace View Post

I can't for the life of me remember the title of the third article, but it had to do with the safety of high dose baclofen. I'll keep looking for it, and if I find it, I'll come back to post it.

This one?: https://www.mywayout.org/community/sh...=1#post1036036

The link to it (The safety of high dose baclofen) is still broken in my signature below since the site upgrade. I'll try to find time to fix that this weekend.

-tk

**TooCurious** · November 21, 2014, 12:05 PM

Thanks for the support and links to the studies! Stuck and Lost - I totally agree that cutting my dose in half suddenly would be a bad idea, but I think if I drop 10mg every two days or so shouldn't be too much of an issue. And perhaps my retention also has to do with the fact that I haven't been in school for a few months now, and the texts I'm reading are difficult. My memory serves me fine in other aspects of life.

So I just got back from the psychiatrist's office, and it didn't go as planned. We discussed my history, and it was also located at the hospital I've been to several times for detoxes, so they saw my B.A.C.'s/frequency of visits and knew the severity of my drinking. I told them about baclofen and all of the information I'd researched, and they told me they'd heard plenty about it but they think Gabapentin works better. So I couldn't get them to budge, and I got prescribed 1,800mg/day Gabapentin, after about a week of titration up to that level.

So my next question - Has anyone here combined gabapentin with baclofen? Is that safe? I obviously couldn't ask the psych because I didn't want to reveal that I'd already begun baclofen. I'm supposed to take my first 300mg dose of gabapentin tonight, so if anyone has any experience with drug interactions I'd really appreciate hearing about it. :thanks: I have another appointment in early December, so maybe I can push baclofen a bit harder then if gabapentin doesn't work well.

**StuckInCA** · November 21, 2014, 12:14 PM

Lots - lots - of people have or continue to combine them. I don't have threads at my fingertips to point you toward, unfortunately, but you can use the mwo search or google and you should be able to dig up plenty. Gabapentin does nothing for me. Other people feel like it knocks them over. It just depends.

EDIT: When I say it did nothing for me, I don't mean like it didn't "work". I mean I felt absolutely nothing from it - no side effects, no effects, I could take 600mg at a time and feel like I'd taken a vitamin. I also, now that I think about it, combined that with bac while I was on it. So yeah, I was taking both at the same time, and it is safe. Gabapentin isn't dangerous. Still, don't eat it buy the handful and then suddenly stop taking it, either.

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