**help please**baclofen**blurred vision**

[summerglow]

Could someone please help me?

I have been on Baclofen since 10th November 2014. I started on 30mg's per day and gradually built up to 60mg's per day. During this period my vision has deteriorated to the extent that I now need specs for long distance as well as reading! My vision is blurred. Has anyone else experienced this? (Along with sleeplessness which is becoming unbearable)

I am going back down to 40mg's per day for now to see if this helps. I am considering stopping. I also have a permanent headache, worse than a hangover!

This of course is worrying me as both the optician and myself cannot 100% say that this is due to the medication and that my eyesight would maybe have deteriorated anyway......... Could this be a coincidence?

My last eye test was in April when I got my new reading glasses. I was shocked to find how bad they have got and it seems this has been since starting the BAC.

If it is the medication, would it be if I stop the Baclofen will my eyesight go back to the way it was before?,........ I'm frightened.......

Is there anyone out there who have experienced blurred vision and will it go away?

Summerglow :thanks:

[terryk]

Could someone please help me?

I have been on Baclofen since 10th November 2014. I started on 30mg's per day and gradually built up to 60mg's per day. During this period my vision has deteriorated to the extent that I now need specs for long distance as well as reading! My vision is blurred. Has anyone else experienced this? (Along with sleeplessness which is becoming unbearable)

I am going back down to 40mg's per day for now to see if this helps. I am considering stopping. I also have a permanent headache, worse than a hangover!

This of course is worrying me as both the optician and myself cannot 100% say that this is due to the medication and that my eyesight would maybe have deteriorated anyway......... Could this be a coincidence?

My last eye test was in April when I got my new reading glasses. I was shocked to find how bad they have got and it seems this has been since starting the BAC.

If it is the medication, would it be if I stop the Baclofen will my eyesight go back to the way it was before?,........ I'm frightened.......

Is there anyone out there who have experienced blurred vision and will it go away?

Summerglow :thanks:

Hi Summerglow - sorry that you are having problems. Usual disclaimer: I am not a doctor. I have read reports of blurred vision and headache as side effects of Baclofen, but I believe that they are not very common. Baclofen is a muscle relaxant (skeletal mostly) and (possibly) could cause the eyes muscles to have a harder time focusing (Neophyte, another MWO member, has reported blurry vision on Baclofen that worsens when he gets very tired). Does your problem in focusing happen in each eye individually (try closing one eye at a time)? Or only when you try to use them together? If it's the latter, it could be a muscle (or nerve) issue, and possibly could be related to the medication. If it's the former it could be a problem with your lenses any other part of your eye, or something else entirely. Since you've only been on Baclofen for 3 weeks, it's highly unlikely that it is causing any permanent changes to your eyes. And on that note, dropping your dose should be pretty easy since it takes your body a bit longer to develop dependence on a dose, but you should always be careful and listen to your body when tapering off - the "What to do when you're running out of Baclofen.." link in my signature has some good information about titrating down safely and comfortably. Lastly, a sudden headache and blurred vision could be a sign of a more serious health problem, so it's best to consult your doctor about this whole situation.

-tk

[dundrinkn]

Summerglow. Yucky side effects for sure. I have had problems with my eyes though not as you've described. It's hard to describe. But has to do with focus and perception I suppose. Anyway... Agree that it probably not a permanent change. Mine always adjusts when I stay at a dose for the same time. Not offering advice, but if it were me, I would stay at 60 for a while. Not go up, or down. And see if it doesn't even out. Even though you've gone up at a reasonable clip, you are introducing a new chemical into the mix. Holding steady for a while might give your body time to assimilate and adjust. Just a thought...

[summerglow]

Thank you for replying TerryK.

I've spoken to the nurse who's in on the prescribing. We've decided to stick at 40mg's and see what happens.

Time will tell. All I know this time of year is not the best time to be mucking about with medications! Coming up to the booziest time of the year!

I will look for the titrating down post for more information.

Thanks again.

[summerglow]

Thanks for replying Dundrinkin. It's comforting to know people are aware of this problem and it may not be permanent.

Time will tell.

[Lostinspace]

I think terryk's answer sums it up perfectly, as far as the two eyes, one eye, thing. I get at least part of my bac through a prescription and I looked for a pamphlet with inclusion of side effects amongst my other paperwork, but I guess they only give that to you the first time. Dammit!! Anyway, don't lose hope. See how you do on 40 mg. And keep us posted. Good luck to you!

EDIT: a google search told me that this is not so uncommon (I mean it's an uncommon side effect, but you're not the first to experience it). I would do terryk's test first. That sounds very sound to me, as muscular relaxation could very well cause your eyes to not align properly, thus not focus on things properly. Whereas, if each each individual eye has problems, that's something to take to your optometrist).

DOUBLE EDIT: I'm not a doctor by any stretch. Please take my advice with a grain of salt.

[Spiritfree]

Hi Summer -sorry to hear of your possible baclofen side effect. Please consider getting first hand professional medical assistance as soon as possible.

[summerglow]

Thank you, Lost. It's both eyes and I'm losing the will to take the Baclofen now. I've had 40mg's today. But the not sleeping is just as bad! Some nights I'm not getting to sleep until 7am. Sick of it now. Seriously thinking of going back to NAL after Christmas.

Have not had a drink since the 24th of November, but I don't if it's the Baclofen working or me! I can stop easily, it's the staying stopped that's the problem. I was down to 7 units a day, but it was every day......

That's why NAL might be best for me as I only need to take if intending to drink (TSM) method.

Anyway we'll see what happens. The muscle relaxing the eyes makes sense to me, and I think that could be the answer.....I'll rephrase....I HOPE it's the answer!!

Time will tell......Thanks again!

[summerglow]

Hi Spirit, I've spoken to the Nurse, who will speak to the doctor. If I'm summonsed in, then it will be to change medications.

I'll wait until I hear from them.

I've got a permanent headache, but tiredness cannot help. Some nights not sleeping at all......I just wonder if it is all worth it.

As I said I can stop, it's the staying stopped, and if I have a drink, very soon it will be back to daily which is what I don't want!

Summer

[summerglow]

Well I'm down to 30mg's a day and still not sure of my eyes. I'm in a right dilemma, as I did not drink for 2 weeks on the BAC, but I can stop drunking on my own, it's the staying stopped that's my problem!

So I've come away for the weekend, and what did I do?.....drink!!

I really and truly think I'll go back to TSM, as I did that before with good results. But had to stop because of a spinal operation.....Opiods and all that.....

So today with a small hangover, am going to see my closest friend, and I know what that'll mean!!

Watch this space....Does anyone know could I just stop the BAC at 30mg's or do I have to titrate down? Also at 30mg's I was getting anxiety relief in the beginning, but I am not now, so what I'm saying to myself is "if it's not stopping me drinking at a small dose I can tolerate, it's now not giving me anxiety relief...what's the point?

Hope someone can help?

Summerglow (don't feel very summery right now!!)

[TimberTim]

Hey Summer,
I have had eye issues periodically while taking bac. For me, I have had trouble keeping my eyes open. By that I mean that it hurts to keep them open, like they are incredibly dry and closing them give relief. Visine or other eye drops has provided temporary relief, but not for long. Granted, my eye issues only occur at much higher doses or when I titrate up too fast. The insomnia thing...it sucks! I had several beers last night and fell asleep pretty quick, but I woke up at 3am and couldn't go back to sleep! I hate it when that happens! Other nights just the opposite happens; I can't get to sleep until the wee hours of the morning.

This strange drug, and the side effects, are so different for everyone. I have similar SE's as you, but not until I'm at about 200mg. That's why I stay below that level.

I have never tried naltrexone, nor the Sinclair method. Does that drug have any of the SE's that baclofen does? Has anyone tried Nalmefene? I was just reading about it and was wondering how it is different from naltrexone.

Best of luck with whatever you do.

[YouKayBee]

I'll chip in for a bit if that's ok?

I tried baclofen before I tried TSM. Naltrexone does come with tiredness and nausea as a side effect but I can safely in my experience say the tiredness is nothing like that experienced with baclofen. The nausea which I didn't really experience with Naltrexone, according to reports by others does wear off after a week or two's worth of consistent use. Nalmefene is supposed to be a much better, alcohol specific version of naltrexone and with less side effects. I would also guess it would vary from person to person.

Hey Summer,
I have had eye issues periodically while taking bac. For me, I have had trouble keeping my eyes open. By that I mean that it hurts to keep them open, like they are incredibly dry and closing them give relief. Visine or other eye drops has provided temporary relief, but not for long. Granted, my eye issues only occur at much higher doses or when I titrate up too fast. The insomnia thing...it sucks! I had several beers last night and fell asleep pretty quick, but I woke up at 3am and couldn't go back to sleep! I hate it when that happens! Other nights just the opposite happens; I can't get to sleep until the wee hours of the morning.

This strange drug, and the side effects, are so different for everyone. I have similar SE's as you, but not until I'm at about 200mg. That's why I stay below that level.

I have never tried naltrexone, nor the Sinclair method. Does that drug have any of the SE's that baclofen does? Has anyone tried Nalmefene? I was just reading about it and was wondering how it is different from naltrexone.

Best of luck with whatever you do.

[guapo]

Hey Summer,
I have had eye issues periodically while taking bac. For me, I have had trouble keeping my eyes open. By that I mean that it hurts to keep them open, like they are incredibly dry and closing them give relief. Visine or other eye drops has provided temporary relief, but not for long. Granted, my eye issues only occur at much higher doses or when I titrate up too fast. The insomnia thing...it sucks! I had several beers last night and fell asleep pretty quick, but I woke up at 3am and couldn't go back to sleep! I hate it when that happens! Other nights just the opposite happens; I can't get to sleep until the wee hours of the morning.

This strange drug, and the side effects, are so different for everyone. I have similar SE's as you, but not until I'm at about 200mg. That's why I stay below that level.

I have never tried naltrexone, nor the Sinclair method. Does that drug have any of the SE's that baclofen does? Has anyone tried Nalmefene? I was just reading about it and was wondering how it is different from naltrexone.Best of luck with whatever you do.

Hello TimberTim

Let's quickly review what we know of Baclofen and the opioid blockers (Naltrexone and Nalmefene, we'll use Nal as the identifier here)

Baclofen- Centrally acting Muscle relaxant FDA approved for muscle spasticity.

NAL-- Centrally acting opioid receptor blocker FDA approved for both Opioid and Alcohol addiction

Baclofen- Based on the experience of a Dr Ameisen, used in increasingly higher and higher doses every day(titrating very carefully due to side effects) to reach a perceived "switch", whereupon indifference to alcohol occurs. (Up to 10 times FDA recommended dose) Then dose is titrated carefully lower in some fashion to a manageable level, as long as "indifference" continues. If not, dose is titrated back up to recapture indifference.

NAL- 50 mg pill one hour before drinking any alcohol. By having naltrexone active in the body at the time alcohol is consumed, endorphins normally released by drinking are blocked, and over time, drinking loses its appeal.

Side Effects: Difficult to say which medication has more, but the Baclofen side effects such as visual changes are quite concerning.

Final result of each therapy:

Baclofen: Lifelong thrice daily dosing of an undetermined and varying amount of medication, with the hope of maintaining indifference, and therefore freedom from the clutches of demon alcohol.

NAL: Only take medication if any drinking planned, which for most helped by NAL, is infrequent, or in many cases, never, as they don't want to drink anymore. keep in mind, they are also not taking any medication, unless they choose to drink anything.

Just observing folks here and on the Sinclair Method Forum, I see no clear winner here. I will say those in the Baclofen camp bring a highly charged and volatile element to these discussions. Almost sounds a bit defensive, but that is pure conjecture.

I know NAL works, as it's been about a year and half for me, and I drink next to nothing. My "supply" of 40 pills has lasted well over 6 months. An occasional drink with dinner or whatever is fine. I have NO side effects, and real interest in alcohol anymore. That works for me.

There are success tales with both these medications, or else people wouldn't use them.

It is still clear that well over 95% of addiction specialists prescribe ABSTINENCE, and in close second, ABSTINENCE.

This is not a losing battle, but keep in mind Naltrexone has been FDA approved since 2006 for Alcohol Abuse. Amiesen's Baclofen book was published in 2009.

[Otter]

Guapo

The problem with your post is you don't even touch on how these drugs work. Baclofen works on the GabaB receptor and is an analogue of GHB which eliminates physical craving. Thus, it is a medical treatment of anxiety/craving, which Ameisen isolated as being the underlying condition of alcoholism. It works so he was right.

It does not require life long use. My wife used it for about three years and now is off it completely and totally well with no craving for alchohol and her abstinence has allowed her to physically recover from the ravages of alcohol.

Nal has a different mechanism and TSM requires continued drinking. It reduces drinking by tricking the pleasure receptors by deadening them. The drinker gets no kick from alcohol (or champagne) so drinking is less fun. It has to be combined with drinking because it just doesn't work as a treatment on its own due to a regrowth of deadened brain receptors over a few months of use. It has no propensity to stop the craving which Ameisen wrote about so if a person is able to get to grips with stopping drinking because these "extinction" sessions of drinking result in them saying "hey, I get no kick from this, I think I'll stop", they can quit, but if they have an anxiety based problem, the anxiety will continue, as will the cravings. The trial results show limited efficacy of this drug and no ability to suppress the addiction. Any google search of results will bring up advertising for Roy Escapa and the Sinclair Method. The TSM chat forum is a dead zone where a handful of hard core drinkers paid by TSM tell how they are modestly reducing their drinking.

The fact that Ameisen published his book in 2009 is a very bizarre comment. Campral and Antabuse have also been approved for alcohol abuse. So what. You have to look at why they are approved and how they work. Yes, Baclofen is a new treatment and it has swept through the alcohol treatment establishment around the world because it actually stops stage five alcoholics who are facing death from picking up a drink. If prescribed by a doctor who knows what he is doing, baclofen will make an alcoholic with a 20 year habit, drinking a litre a day prefer water to alcohol. I know because I have witnessed that first hand.

So, take a pill that stops you wanting to drink altogether and get your physical health back or use a gimmick like TSM which deadens pleasure receptors but leaves the addictive/craving disorder untreated.

I found your post to be misleadingly vague and not something which anyone could rely on to decide which medication actually is best for them.

[Spiritfree]

Hello TimberTim

Let's quickly review what we know of Baclofen and the opioid blockers (Naltrexone and Nalmefene, we'll use Nal as the identifier here)

Baclofen- Centrally acting Muscle relaxant FDA approved for muscle spasticity.

NAL-- Centrally acting opioid receptor blocker FDA approved for both Opioid and Alcohol addiction

Baclofen- Based on the experience of a Dr Ameisen, used in increasingly higher and higher doses every day(titrating very carefully due to side effects) to reach a perceived "switch", whereupon indifference to alcohol occurs. (Up to 10 times FDA recommended dose) Then dose is titrated carefully lower in some fashion to a manageable level, as long as "indifference" continues. If not, dose is titrated back up to recapture indifference.

NAL- 50 mg pill one hour before drinking any alcohol. By having naltrexone active in the body at the time alcohol is consumed, endorphins normally released by drinking are blocked, and over time, drinking loses its appeal.

Side Effects: Difficult to say which medication has more, but the Baclofen side effects such as visual changes are quite concerning.

Final result of each therapy:

Baclofen: Lifelong thrice daily dosing of an undetermined and varying amount of medication, with the hope of maintaining indifference, and therefore freedom from the clutches of demon alcohol.

NAL: Only take medication if any drinking planned, which for most helped by NAL, is infrequent, or in many cases, never, as they don't want to drink anymore. keep in mind, they are also not taking any medication, unless they choose to drink anything.

Just observing folks here and on the Sinclair Method Forum, I see no clear winner here. I will say those in the Baclofen camp bring a highly charged and volatile element to these discussions. Almost sounds a bit defensive, but that is pure conjecture.

No quapo -as you know, this is not conjecture, this is a fact. I have been on the ass end of attacks every since I suggested that Baclofen may not be the answer. But this is ok because I think that it helps all involved begin to create a different level of open-mindedness.

I know NAL works, as it's been about a year and half for me, and I drink next to nothing. My "supply" of 40 pills has lasted well over 6 months. An occasional drink with dinner or whatever is fine. I have NO side effects, and real interest in alcohol anymore. That works for me.

There are success tales with both these medications, or else people wouldn't use them.

It is still clear that well over 95% of addiction specialists prescribe ABSTINENCE, and in close second, ABSTINENCE.

This is not a losing battle, but keep in mind Naltrexone has been FDA approved since 2006 for Alcohol Abuse. Amiesen's Baclofen book was published in 2009.

Guapo -you make a few good points and I would like to add thereto:

I begin by saying that there are varying degrees of alcoholism (AUD) and there are typically different underlying reasons to drink. After all, alcoholism is a symptom driven disease. As such, different medications will be needed for different types of alcoholics. To further complicate matters, the brains of each alcoholic have been damaged to differing extents as a result of alcoholism and environmental factors.

I do not believe that Baclofen is the real solution for those who occasionally over drink, say or do crazy/stupid things, then feel guilty or ashamed the next day. Even if they do this a few times a week, it will not be beneficial to take baclofen in lieu of other medications -imo of course.

The reason Naltrexone does not work for me and some other alcoholics is the fact that we are/were drinking primarily for the calming effect of alcohol. All that Naltrexone did for me was to block the calming and euphoria effects of alcohol. Perhaps this would have been a good thing when I was just beginning my trek down the road of alcoholism, but not after I crossed a certain threshold.

It is my opinion that Baclofen is a great option for those who are in extreme danger from alcoholism. Baclofen not only has the ability to eventually quail cravings, it also has the potential to reduce or eliminate underlying anxiety issues.

There is a huge amount of anxiety relief when one does eventually quit drinking. So, for those who do not have an underlying anxiety disorder, perhaps taking Nal... is the best option. Otherwise, other medications or combinations thereof of will be required. There just is no single answer for the problem -yet. But as you say, there are success stories with both of these medications..