Half way on Bac

[Hudstar]

Hi MWO,

Just checking in with some thoughts on my progress with baclofen so far. For a professional writer, I'm terrible at keeping diaries which is something I felt I should do with my bac journey because I hope and feel it could be a significant milestone in my recovery from 15 years of debilitating alcoholism. So MWO will have to be my personal record! (And arguably a better place to record my experiences while learning so much from others)

Anyway! I actually began taking bac about two months ago, but took my time with it. It's taken that long to arrive at my current dose of 138 mg. I take these (25mg tablets, broken in two when required):

7.30am 25mg; 12pm 37.5 mg; 4.30 37.5mg; 8.30 37.5mg.

Side effects subside after a few days after taking the dose up a notch, but they include the well-known sleepiness and a kind of throbbing, buzzing headache - it's not pleasant but not unbearable. I experience occasional insomnia during these periods when I have to get used to an increased dose - however marginal -

I find the idea of getting to high levels - about 275 mg should be my max - daunting. But feel that if I take it slow and steady, to reach my switch, I can taper down to a manageable maintenance dose. I have an appointment with Dr Chick for a prescription of a daily dose of 95 mg on friday. My plan is to use the supply of baclofen that I order online and continue taking my protocol to the dose required to hit my switch, by about 12.5 mg every 3 days. Then titrate down and use the 90 mg prescription as my daily maintenance dose. Well... the plan feels good on paper at least!

Blah, blah, blah... To the good stuff! Baclofen is already greatly reducing my desire to drink in the week. When friday rolls around, I find it nearly impossible to resist drinking to excess; the habit is so entrenched. But this last weekend, while I got wasted in the evenings alone (as is my sorry style) I rallied on Sunday, pulled myself together and spent the day doing productive things. This hasn't been the case for nearly a year! I would drink at the weekends from dawn to about 3 in the morning, previously.

During the week, thanks to not drinking, I can feel my old self pouring back in - the guy who can smile and joke with colleagues, do good work at a good pace. This is a stark contrast to the withered, shaking, sick looking mute I've been for who knows how long. My friends, colleagues and family are starting to notice. It feels good.

The urgent command to get alcohol after work is diminished to a quiet whisper that is getting easier and easier to ignore. Instead of "Now" it has become "Later," like in a few days later. Which may mean I might just postpone drinking until the weekend, but the thought is rapidly losing its appeal so who knows what will happen.

So I'll wrap this up with a last thought: It's far to early too start flinging words like 'miracle' and 'cure' around; I think a little skepticism can be a healthy thing in these matters. But the little, tangible reprieves from the intense and impenetrable (until now) suffering that alcoholism brings into my life are quietly astounding.

They bode well.... :happy2:

Thanks for reading.

[dundrinkn]

Great post, Hudstar. So happy you are finding some relief with Bac.

[Lostinspace]

That’s so great to hear, Hudstar It sounds like you’re well on your way, and I’m so happy to hear that that annoying “must have now” voice is fading. I also use MWO as my only journal of my bac experience, as well as to talk with others who have similar experiences, and to have a sense of community. Try not to worry too much about what dose you’ll eventually need to hit your switch, or what your maintenance dose will be.

You can’t really plan it in advance, and all that worry will only detract from the experience of getting better. I understand. I’m kinda where you are now. I don’t want to go up too much higher, but y’know? It takes what it takes. You’ve obviously benefited from bac so far, so this will likely continue to help you. Keep on posting and let us know how it’s going for you!

[kronkcarr]

Hudstar,

You sound so good. Congratulations on your improvements with baclofen. Isn't it amazing?

I wrote a journal on paper and I'm glad I did because I forgot some of my experience as months stacked up. Keep posting.

I'm glad you're seeing your old self again. That must be cool.

[neophyte]

sounds positive Hudstar, if you are experiencing a diminished desire to drink to the point where you dont feel like drinking most days, you probably won't need to go much higher in dose.

[bleep]

I agree with Neo, but I've found it doesn't help to get ahead of yourself with this. Just keep going and see where you end up.

[Hudstar]

Meeting Dr Chick
06/02/2015

So today I met Professor Jonathan Chick in Harley Street, London, the addiction psychologist who was an early endorsee of Dr Amiesen and one of the few doctors in the UK to prescribe baclofen.

Dr Chick was a friendly, mild man and we spoke in a small room at the top of a long, narrow flight of stairs, on the fourth floor. We talked a little about me, although not in much depth, which was fine. I didn’t need to tell this addiction therapist how my alcoholism was affecting me in much detail. It is his field after all. I took a breathalyser test to discover only a trace amount of alcohol left over from last night’s relatively low consumption of 6 beers.

After a while it became clear that Dr Chick wasn’t an advocate of Dr Amiesen’s (and by now, the French medical profession’s) prescription of high dose baclofen. He explained about a patient who took more than he could handle and became a hyper manic gambling addict. He maintained that 100mg should be enough for most people and I can kind of accept that. At the same time I was thinking about the experiences of Dr Amiesen and those baclofen users on the My Way Out forum and resolved to seek their ‘threshold dose’ under my own protocol before titrating down to a maintenance dose, unless side effects become unbearable.

I found myself steering the conversation, perhaps channelling the journalist in me. I prodded him to become more emotive, a little more enthusiastic about the discovery of baclofen for addiction and of the future of this treatment. It was clear that he believed in its efficacy but that he was prescribing it only based on his own experience with patients but without the solid medical conjecture that requires further research such as those being conducted in France and Holland.

I left with a written prescription, which is what I came for, and his best wishes. I will have to request a repeat at the end of every month so that he can post one to me. Seems a bit of a faff but hey: I have a prescription for a medicine that has the potential to help me lead a normal life untainted by the grimy anti-life of alcohol addiction!

I’m still unsure what my goals truly are. Am I naively hoping that baclofen, at the right dose, will enable me to drink sparingly like a non-alcoholic? Wouldn’t it be enough to be happily abstinent, to find peace without alcohol? To live life without alcoholism always centre stage, the constant nagging compulsion to be numb instead of awake and in the moment?

I’m currently on 140mg of baclofen and I can feel it working in glimpses of indifference, a new sensation similar to boredom at the prospect of drinking. It’s fleeting and cravings are still getting the better of me. But I’m out of options. Baclofen has to work.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hi Hudstar and welcome to the forum.

Thanks for sharing your experience so far. It's interesting to hear why Dr. Chick is reluctant to prescribe HDB. I've never heard him give an explanation before, so thanks for asking him! He used to limit his prescribing dose to 80 mg, so also interesting that he's gone up in amount. No question that baclofen can make people wonky, particularly if they're gobbling it up. I definitely experienced a bit of hypomania, though it didn't last. It's funny, I think, that he attributes the person's gambling addiction to baclofen. It's certainly not unheard of that people who suffer from addiction find other things to get addicted to when they're going through the process...Which is not to say that this medication shouldn't be approached with a rational and reasonable approach. (Not at all the way I did it, but that's why I'm here. Do as I say, not as I did! Ha!)

I think your plan sounds reasonable, but I agree with Bleep that it's best not to get ahead of yourself. I set lots of limits, on amount of baclofen, time I would take it, and (of course) alcohol consumption, when I started out and none of them worked out that way. Never the less, it worked out well for me. I particularly appreciate the slow and steady part, though. That's important!

Glad you're finding some relief! Take good care of yourself in other ways, too.

[bleep]

Man, if I were you I wouldn't set major goals now. Baclofen, at least for me, was a game changer, and after popping out the other side, I felt a different person. Have a goal of getting enough baclofen in you, and then reassess when you are there, would be my advice.

[MeJustMe]

Thank-you Hudstar, your posts give me hope. I am also a writer. I am on a Bac trial, so I don't know what dose (if any) I am on. I suspect I am on the 25mg or 75mg daily dose, because I have felt what I think are some side-effects.
I am still drinking up to 16 standard drinks a day. At my age, it's a killer. Next week is hectic with work so somehow I hope to stay abstinent - for the week at least.

[eight days a week]

Hudstar hope you are doing well

...
It's interesting to hear why Dr. Chick is reluctant to prescribe HDB. I've never heard him give an explanation before, so thanks for asking him! He used to limit his prescribing dose to 80 mg, so also interesting that he's gone up in amount. No question that baclofen can make people wonky, particularly if they're gobbling it up. I definitely experienced a bit of hypomania, though it didn't last. It's funny, I think, that he attributes the person's gambling addiction to baclofen. It's certainly not unheard of that people who suffer from addiction find other things to get addicted to when they're going through the process...Which is not to say that this medication shouldn't be approached with a rational and reasonable approach. (Not at all the way I did it, but that's why I'm here. Do as I say, not as I did! Ha!)
...

Sorry for the snipped post but having met Dr Chick a lot I thought I should address this as I don't think this is really the case (though I certainly can understand that impression from a first meeting!).

I haven't (through necessity ) needed to see him for a few years now but when I first did (Jan 2010 I think) he was certainly willing to prescribe up to the UK guideline of 100mg, though he seemed inclined to only try me as far as 80mg. I got the feeling this was to follow guidelines, and to try to stay safely within them. It's just a guess but I felt he was getting a lot of people looking for HDB at the time as Dr Ameisen's book was making major waves, and more than a few folk I know of were seeing him purely looking for HDB on prescription. We spoke about his friend Olivier, and he talked warmly of how his life had been utterly transformed, yet still when I pushed the subject slightly he politely but firmly insisted that 100mg was his max.

I continued seeing him and as he got to know me better and 80mg wasn't enough for me I went up to 100mg under him. At this point 'the limit' came up again and he said I could go higher, but wanted to supervise me much more closely if I did so. I understand this, just as I understand having to follow the arbitrary recommended limits in the UK, the risk a doctor takes if he routinely ignores these, and the fact that Dr Chick had had great success with many patients at 80mg or less daily, and/or else trying other options. (He is not purely a 'Baclofen advocate' - far from it! In my experience his interest in helping you is far, far more holistic than that.)

The gambling story is a worry, and I hope it hasn't forced him to draw back to 80mg as a matter of course in the two and a bit years since I've seen him.