Need to talk to other people treating their addiction with Baclofen

[Stevo]

Hi guys,I haven't had any new responses but have read quite a lot of other peoples posts.I don't know if it is just me only seeing what supports what I want but I have noticed that quite a lot of what I have seen leads me to believe that I probably can have a few drinks safely.
I really need to hear some negative sides to the controlled drinking on Baclofen experiment to give me a truly informed understanding before I go ahead and make my decision,so please if you have anything to add in relation to this let me know.
Cheers Stevo.

[kronkcarr]

Here's a post of mine from the Here We Go Again thread:

You prompt me to post. Almost 2 years into my baclofen voyage and I've experienced those nothing blahs. Or i have great moments that just appear and then i go back to blah. I used to drink to motivate and to be funny and outlandish. That ended with bac and I started staying at home a lot. I still see some friends but not much. Lately I've thought I need to step out more.

Before I quit getting numb or drunk I let people walk on me and hurt me. I never spoke up. I deal with people's issues all day at work so I don't want more in my spare time unless it's family or dear friends.

When I started bac my goal was to stop my passive/aggressive behavior of speaking up to people when I was powered with alcohol. A month or two ago I realized I'd stopped my behavior--of course I had. I don't communicate with anyone at night! So I figured it'd be ok to have 2 glasses of wine a night. All was well but the other day I realized I was buying close to the amount of wine I used to.

Friday afternoon I went to see a friend who has lots of relationship problems. Her guy was there too. Long story short: I don't care for him. I thought they were happy. They poured and poured wine never letting my glass get empty. I drank and drank. He left for a bit and she told me how unhappy she was. When he came back I had to leave. I drove home drunk and paranoid. I got everything done I was supposed to--even kayaked the next day but 3 days later I still feel disoriented.

I've been at 40 mgs for a year or more and I may go up.

This is why I say that I have to think if I am going to drink.

[Spiritfree]

Hi Stevo -thanks for your posts. Stevo -on two occasions I experimented with heavy drinking while taking baclofen (post 6 months on Baclofen). As a result of this type of drinking, each time I found that my brain was right back to reminding of the rush and immediate calmness that alcohol brings (for that short period of time). The strange part was that I did not wake up the morning following heavy intoxication with the former normal hangover and depressive/anxious feelings that I had had in the past. But the thoughts of drinking (mental craving) lingered within my brain for several days post drinking. Neither time was 'easy' to overcome. Prior to baclofen, I was a heavy duty -sun up to pass out drunk.

Of course, this report to you is based solely on my experience.

Stevo -When all is said and done, I have had to admit to myself that if I am going to drink, then I am going to drink -to get drunk. When I also fully and completely admit to myself that the ONLY reason that I want to put alcohol into my system is to change the way that I feel or think at that particular moment, then I realize that all that I am doing is offering my ability to choose and be myself to a chemical. My ultimate and continued goal is to live my life without being controlled by a substance -even if it is just a few drinks that does the controlling. Those times that I feel like a few drinks could just help me feel at ease is really my brain just telling me that it not ok to be me -and this sucks.

Anyway, I hope I have made sense and this helps answer part of your question -at from my experience.

[Stevo]

Thankyou Kronkcarr and Spiritfree for your responses.
I have had a strange day today toying with the idea of possibly being able to drink safely.I go from give it a go to why would I want to do that.Essentially I think for me it is about getting some relief from the pressures of life,that being said I truly miss the ability to sit down with friends and have a drink and a laugh.
My drinking has always been about getting drunk and the fact that a compulsion kicked in didn't matter until I was close to running out.That compulsion or allergic reaction is what worries me,I would like to see if anything has changed in that department due to the Baclofen.I too would spend every spare minute with a drink in my hand,although when I was drinking I always managed to go to work and maintain a façade of everything was going alright.The truth was I would get a drink as soon as I knocked off and wouldn't stop until I passed out.On days that I wasn't working it was drink from the moment I woke up to the time I passed out.I have read quite a few posts in here over the last few days and I can relate to the indifference that many people have described.I think I was lucky possibly hitting my switch at 142.5mg a day(if I truly have).
In AA they say that the great obsession of every alcoholic is that one day we will be able to drink safely like others,I too would like to do that.
In conclusion I am in 2 minds about what to do about having a drink,I would love to be a temperate drinker but hold grave fears that no matter what Baclofen does for me I may just start the wretched treadmill again.
I am very grateful for the interactions guys and will continue to post whatever happens.
I get the feeling I will never know unless I do the experiment haha.

[dundrinkn]

I think my post went missing. So what I was saying... I think that baclofen has shrunk the spectrum for me. I am less miserable when I drink, and have few cravings when I don't. I am not cured. I cannot drink without triggering cravings. I cannot abstain without being a mess. Even after 3 or 4 months. I think Skullbaby maybe got there after longer. I went a lot longer in AA without Bac and was still whiteknuckling it (8 years +).

[Stevo]

Thanks dundrinkin,I like the concise way that you have described your situation for me.
Definitely food for thought.

[Hudstar]

Hi Stevo,

This is a very interesting thread. I am at the same dose of bac as you though have not reached this 'switch' yet. What it has done is make it easier for me to avoid alcohol in the week. That is a significant difference and to be relatively sober for five days is a blessing.

But yes, the quandary over moderation. I am wrestling with this myself, so don't have any wisdom on the subject as yet. It was about the same time that I began my journey with bac that a couple of close friends posed an interesting question to me.

Now, my struggles alcoholism are very well known to my close friends and family and I have had tremendous support over the last few years since I went 'public'/'came out' and went to rehab. But since relapse last year they have clearly been very worried while watching my descent back into the old hell. Anyway, they asked me something like this... "wouldn't it be better if you could do your drinking with us, occasionally, instead of doing it out of sight, all the time?"

I'd wondered about that because ever since exposing myself as an alcoholic I've had to do my drinking in the shadows, isolating and hiding in plain sight, as it were. However desirable their proposition would have been, I know that in active addiction, their solution would have been impossible: I could have a few friendly drinks with them down the pub but it would only light the fuse and when we left each other I would either stock up or drink my stash ('we addicts must protect our supply'.)

But am I naive to hope that baclofen might actually be able to comfortably enable me to join my pals for a friendly few and then be able to put the glass down afterwards? The great obsession that AA mentions is all too true though. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I hope you find the solution that's right for you, Stevo.

(sorry, just thinking aloud here)

[Spiritfree]

Hi Steve and Hud -thanks for your posts. As Hud stated -a very interesting thread -and important.

There are many stages, levels, and types of AUD (alcoholism), and there is no one single answer for any one single individual -as you guys already know.

It is the dream of every person addicted to alcohol to want to go back to the day when they could get just drink one or two. It is my opinion that only erasure of memory will ever really allow this to happen for the majority of those who have/had become addicted to alcohol - medication or not.

I guess for me, at my stage in the AL game, I realize that alcohol is just not a solution to anything for me anymore. I now actually enjoy hanging a out (for a short period of time) with my friends who are drinking -while I don't drink. It is interesting to watch them change personalities and express themselves differently. Unlike me of course, most of them stop after a brief time and then later experience the after effects but seem to not have desire or need to drink more the following morning or day.

The ease and comfort that alcohol use to give (without following day craving probs) is over. Alcohol only provides a short term illusion of 'whatever'. Perhaps baclofen, more than anything, has allowed me to at least consider the realities of alcohol and the effect on me.

[kronkcarr]

Hi Stevo,
Now, my struggles alcoholism are very well known to my close friends and family and I have had tremendous support over the last few years since I went 'public'/'came out' and went to rehab. But since relapse last year they have clearly been very worried while watching my descent back into the old hell. Anyway, they asked me something like this... "wouldn't it be better if you could do your drinking with us, occasionally, instead of doing it out of sight, all the time?"

I'd wondered about that because ever since exposing myself as an alcoholic I've had to do my drinking in the shadows, isolating and hiding in plain sight, as it were. However desirable their proposition would have been, I know that in active addiction, their solution would have been impossible: I could have a few friendly drinks with them down the pub but it would only light the fuse and when we left each other I would either stock up or drink my stash ('we addicts must protect our supply'.)

But am I naive to hope that baclofen might actually be able to comfortably enable me to join my pals for a friendly few and then be able to put the glass down afterwards? The great obsession that AA mentions is all too true though. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
(sorry, just thinking aloud here)

For me and some others here baclofen removes the obsession with alcohol. This is what's been proven with the brain chemistry and the receptor that baclofen affects. Check Otter's posts for the details of what happens in the brain. For me, once I hit my switch I could have a couple drinks with friends and go home and not have more. I didn't keep alcohol in my home because my MO was to drink alone at night.

I'm not an addiction doctor and I'm also not trying to convince anyone to drink. I'm simply briefly stating what baclofen does.

[Spiritfree]

Hi Hud and Stevo - Alcohol thoughts stay in the brain of a former abuser long after it is no longer in. To keep alcohol out of your house or avoid going near places where alcohol is available only reinforces the fact that one is still somewhat controlled by alcohol. In other words, regardless of your current alcohol intake situation, alcohol stays in the mind of an abuser -even if they have changed as a result of medication.

Edit: I am not an addiction doctor and I am also not trying to convince anyone to drink or not drink. I am simply stating that if alcohol has had you once, it would love to have you again.

[Stevo]

Thankyou both Kronkcarr and Spiritfree(love the disclaimers).
I fully understand where you are both coming from and have come to the point of believing that if I don't try I will never know.That being said I am struggling with conditioning that being in AA has placed on me.I see this as a good thing and a bad thing at the same time.
Thanks for making it all to clear that alcohol wants me back Spiritfree,your words made a lot of sense.I think that when Kronkcarr says that he must always think,this is what he is meaning too.
I will if I decide to conduct the experiment remain vigilant and remember the wonderful stories that have been relayed to me on here.
Still a little fearful but quite excited too.
Thanks guys Stevo.

[kronkcarr]

Steveo,

What I mean is that over drinking became a habit for many years. When I talk about thinking I mean that now I have a choice whether to drink or not and how much to drink if I do. At the start I didn't keep alcohol in my home. Now it is here sometimes but it doesn't matter.

On some thread I posted about my experience on vacation. I did drink daily--cold beer bought on the beach, excellent rum from the place we were and South American red wines. I never got drunk or loopy and when I came home there was no issue for me to not drink. Alcohol doesn't run me any more. It's neither here nor there.

My impression is that this is how "normal" people drink. I don't know but it's not an issue for me.

[Stevo]

Thanks Kronkcarr for elaborating,what you are describing is exactly what I am hoping to do.
The idea that I am not a slave to alcohol but infact its master and have a choice to enjoy a drink or not have a drink without it being an issue is exactly what I would like.
No more fear of alcohol is a whole new level of freedom that I once thought was unattainable.
Really am very excited about this.

[Hudstar]

That's it really. Alcoholism is a state of constant fear. Afraid to drink, afraid not to drink. That's all I want; to live life unafraid of alcohol. Whatever form that takes, I hope I achieve it with baclofen.

[Spiritfree]

Hi Stevo -again, thank you for this thread. I truly do think that it is very important for others to have a chance to read this thread and understand the possibility that they each may one day be able to keep drinking without worry of being, once again, held captive to alcohol.

Now here is my reality and my observations regarding the posts on this thread (and perhaps I am much different than the majority of alcohol dependent sufferers herein). I am one who suffered from chronic (and eventual total lack of function) from the disease of alcoholism (AUD). So, right off the bat, I may only be mumbling words to a very small number (if any) of people on this site or to those who visit this site. In years leading up to my total lack of function resulting from alcohol, I would have done anything to find a medication that would help alleviate the cravings, minimize the thoughts of drinking, and allowed me to carry on drinking when and/if/or I chose to drink. I think perhaps this is the dream of every person who has/is addicted to a substance.

Now, having said this, I just wonder if I would have later sought out the underlying causes/reasons for my feeling the need to drink during certain times? I drank when I felt great, just to feel better. I drank when I felt down and out, just to try and get a lift. Alcohol was always the answer until... If I am truthful to myself, I probably would have never tried to find (or dig into) the reasons that I was really drinking. What was I trying to cover up? Why did I feel the need to drink to be comfortable around others? Why did I feel pain that I did not even know that I had? Just exactly what was/am I afraid of that I needed to drink to mask my fear? Why do I need to drink just a few (that turned into many) just around a few friends at an evening gathering? I don't believe that there are any right or wrong answers to the questions -I think for me, they were/are only questions that I have to answer to myself.

In summary, all that I would like to say is if you ever reach a point that you can truly choose not to use your drug (alcohol for me), then take advantage of your ability to choose -and try to choose not to put the drug back into your system. And at that point, when you have the ability to choose, try to figure out what is really going inside you that makes you feel the need to drug yourself to feel or think ok. I think perhaps it is that point in time that you really will have a choice. SF