Need to talk to other people treating their addiction with Baclofen

[Stevo]

G'day to all,
Today I received a part payment to the income protection claim that I have applied for.There are a few things that I have wanted to do for people that have helped me out along the way.One of the things I want to do is buy my neighbour a nice bottle of wine as he is a bit of a computer genius and has provided me with advice and programs,not to mention tech support when needed.
So I find myself standing in Dan Murphy's(Australian alcohol emporium)looking at all the different bottles of wine.They actually have a sign on the wall that says that they want you to browse and take your time much like you were in a library.So that is what I did.
As I am looking around I notice that I am not in the slightest affected by all of the bottles that I am surrounded by(wine was never my thing anyway)but the thought of doing the drinking experiment becomes quite powerful.I chose a nice wine for my neighbour and then headed to the beer section(now this is what I was interested in)and once again perused the massive selection.
I had thoughts of Dr.Ameisens own drinking experiment,I was encouraged by this and was leaning seriously towards buying some boutique beer and going home to have a few drinks tonight yet could not find anything that interested me enough to actually make a purchase.
I woke up a couple of mornings ago with what could only be described as a revelation of the freedom that I have received from alcohol thanks to Baclofen.I have been very interested in this notion and have begun to definitely think that I have the freedom as others have described to me but the other morning I woke up and it was reality.Not suspected but known.
This afternoon in Dan Murphy's I could not find a good reason to buy beer even the drinking experiment was not enough.I am seeing this as more proof of the change in my thinking towards alcohol.I now need a reason to have a drink WOW!
I never needed a reason before,I used to go into Dan Murphy's and B-line it straight to my favourite beer,get it paid for and get the first one open as quick as possible.The only reason I needed was it is beer and it must be drank.
With all that said,even as I write I am still toying with the idea of going back there to grab myself a six pack and following through with the experiment,but it is only about doing the experiment not as it would have been before.
LOL just thought I would share this with you guys.
Cheers Stevo.

[Lostinspace]

That's amazing, Stevo! I can understand that nagging urge to do the drinking experiment just to prove to yourself that you really have changed, and that the things people in AA said to you aren't necessarily true with sobriety on bac. But the outcome of browsing the beer section and not finding anything worth experimenting with is proof enough that you've changed And yeah, since when would we need a reason TO drink? That's so great to hear. Enjoy your new found freedom!

[Stevo]

Okay guys last night I did the drinking experiment.
I received a call from a mate who is having a bucks party next weekend the other day,as the celebrations are happening not too far from where I live he asked me to meet them there for a drink.He knows that I haven't been drinking and at first asked me to come over for a water,but I said maybe I will have a beer with you.Being a red blooded aussie male he thought that this was pretty cool.
I decided yesterday afternoon that it would be a good idea to see where I am at before I head into a party type situation and dive headfirst into the experiment,so off to the bottle shop I go.
I once again stood there staring at all the different beers and felt quite uneasy about the road that I was about to embark down.Nevertheless I wound up buying 6 stubbies of beer and 6 of Guinness,my reasoning was that if the compulsion did kick in I wanted to make sure I could drink myself to sleep.
I came home and only put 2 of each in the fridge and went about my normal afternoon routines with no real thoughts of excitement or anticipation.I took my nightly dose of Baclofen at around 7 thinking that it was probably a good idea to make sure that I had it in me before I actually opened a beer.
Around 7:30 I opened my first beer,it was almost ceremonial in that I knew that what I was about to do was completely against the cultural beliefs of AA which has been such an integral part of my recovery.In a sense it was the funeral of that way of thinking.
I was expecting the first sip to taste like absolute crap but no it was nice,just as I had remembered it.The first beer took about an hour to drink as I was only interested in sipping it(a very different approach to my drinking prior to Baclofen).
Around this time I decided to put on a DVD that I was given for Christmas of probably the best live gig that I have ever heard but had never seen.I thought no better way to enjoy it than with a few drinks.It is a very long concert a bit over 2.5 hours.
As I sat there enjoying the gig and progressing through the beers I kept thinking to myself that drinking now does not hold the excitement and almost primal urgency that it once did,I have become what is considered a normal drinker.My intentions were not to get rip roaring drunk as fast as possible and to maintain this state until I pass out.My intentions were to have a few drinks and enjoy the gig.
What a strange and almost alien sensation this was LOL.
Anyway,I would have been quite happy to pour out the last part of the 3rd beer yet as the gig was so long and I wanted to see it all I didn't and I continued with a couple more.I had to put a couple more drinks in the fridge and I noticed that as the night progressed I began to drink at an increasing rate.I was getting drunk(my tolerance would be expectedly almost non existent)and I wasn't really enjoying it.My thoughts were along the lines of I can't believe that for so much of my life what I am feeling right now was paramount to everything else,I can't believe that this was so important to me.
At around 11:30 the gig was over and I had no interest whatsoever in continuing to drink into oblivion.I had drank 3 stubbies and 2.5 Guinnesses.The remaining opened alcohol was tipped down the sink and I went to bed.
I woke up with a headache after sleeping about 10 hours which is highly unusual,I did not like the headache at all and believe that it will only serve as a deterent from possibly over drinking in the future.I would like to state again here that the only reason I continued to drink last night was that I was keen to get to see the whole DVD.I am lethargic today and somewhat foggy,which I am not too happy about.Another reason to not go overboard in the future.I still have alcohol in the house,the remainders of what did not get drank last night and I have no intentions of drinking them,there is no craving there at all.
Overall I think that for me the whole thing was a success.I now know that if and when I have a drink that the Baclofen is doing as has been described by Dr.Ameisen in his book and some of the people on here.I no longer have a compulsion or craving to drink myself into oblivion,it is amazing.
2 years ago 5 beers would not have even touched the sides let alone 2.5.The thought of stopping after 2 beers did not exist but today it does.
I know now that next weekend when I head over to see my friend I will be able to have a couple of drinks with him without having an uncontrollable craving take over and my intentions will be to do just that.
I definitely didn't like waking up this morning with a bit of a hangover so I know also now that if I don't want that I need to limit my drinks which as once I could not,now I can.
Seriously Baclofen has been a miracle for me right from the start,I was very lucky in that the negative SE's did not outweigh the positive.I hope that everyone who decides to take the Baclofen path can have similar results to me,yet I know that for some this can not be the case.The whole way that I see the world,my own drinking and how I feel about drinking this morning after doing the experiment is like there has been a correction in my perception.It is like prior to Baclofen my way of looking at these things had a slight parallax error.
I don't know if that makes any sense LOL,my understanding off a parallax error is getting a wrong reading due to the angle it is being viewed from.
Anywho,I have done the experiment and am more than happy with the outcome.I said that I would share it with you guys when I did it and believe more so today than before that I have been given control over alcohol thanks to Baclofen.
Man that was long.
Cheers Stevo.

[Hudstar]

Great post, Stevo. That must be a huge relief. You finally burst that bubble, released that pressure. Experiment done, now time to just get on with your life.

I hope - and expect you don't - carry any residual feeling of 'original sin' of the type as espoused by AA. That is, to have allowed alcohol to pass your lips after a time in sobriety, is to have 'failed' or 'surrendered' or such like. Quite useless feelings I'm sure you'll agree. Baclofen is the game changer, one that does away with abstinence and moves straight towards a mindset of indifference to AL. I'm glad your experiment proved it.

Still, what do you plan after the party? Are you thinking of incorporating drinking back into your life on a casual basis? Would that be wise? You'll remember, Amiesen experimented with higher quantities and frequencies and found cravings returned.

[bleep]

Steve, that's epic. it is an amazing, liberating, brave and wonderful thing that you've done.

Be aware that the control you now have can easily be overcome through the force of habit. I found I had perfect control up until the point I didn't, usually at parties. I'd stay all night and drink, much slower and without the burning desire to be fucked, however the results ended up similar. Not nearly as bad as before, but drunk nonetheless.

Don't let me piss on your parade though. Lots of people are able to do controlled drinking after baclofen, even me to a degree, just be aware.

You deserve 10 points!

[bleep]

Spirit, your post on nicotine is intriguing. I always knew there was wisdom behind my 40 a day habit, it's nice to have science back me up!

[Stevo]

Thanks so much Hudstar and Bleep,
It is getting late here but I wanted to briefly answer your questions Hudstar.
Firstly YES,it is a huge relief to have done the experiment and now have proof that what I thought I knew is real.I am not feeling in any way like I have busted as I now have a whole new way of looking at alcoholism,one from the perspective of freedom to have a choice.When I was taking the first few sips I did have some AA rhetoric going through my head,my partner even said to me as I stood there holding the first beer"are you sure this is something that you want to do?"(by association she too has been exposed to the thinking of AA,and somewhat influenced).Once I had taken the first sip I had past the point of no return though LOL.As much as AA would like me to feel as if I had failed or surrendered,I can't feel that way.I feel more like I have been given a freedom that due to their own ignorance and arrogance they will never have.I almost feel pity for them and would like to let all of them know that if they would really like freedom from alcohol then maybe they should give Baclofen a try.That sounds terrible but it is where my head is at on this matter,and I know that it is not for me to belittle their organisation by trying to point out their own defects of character.
I truly believe that Baclofen is the game changer as you have found yourself(congratulations once again on hitting your switch mate).
My plan is to go over to my mates for a couple of beers and I seriously do mean a couple.I have no intention of spending the night running a muck with the rest of the revellers.I will pass on my congratulations and just jump in the car and drive home.The hangover I had this morning was something that I don't want to have to deal with anymore.
I will be incorporating drinking back into my life on a casual basis but it will be a very casual basis.I have no intentions of enjoying a drink just for enjoying a drinks sake.My drinking will be a very small part of my life(I will be surprised if I drink more than once a week)but I will drink whenever the opportunity arises and I feel like having a beer.Honestly mate I don't think that there will be opportunities on a regular basis and that is fine with me.
That said I am not adverse to occasionally letting myself get drunk if the mood befalls me ha.It just depends on how I am feeling at the time.
When I woke up this morning I was not really to motivated to do certain things that have become routine and important to me,which I didn't like.I was thinking to myself that it is now more important to be feeling good and capable to do each day what I need to get done rather than let things slide because I have a hangover.
In conclusion I at this point don't think I have to worry too much about possibly creating a new drinking problem,I have lost the motivation to drink that I once had.
Please keep us posted on your journey too,I was so happy for you when you posted that you had hit the switch.Did you have to go any higher than 140?LOL I have some questions for you too,I probably should put them in your thread.

Bleep I take your words very seriously and thank you for your input,I will do my best to respect and try not to abuse the gift that I have received.

Haha,that wound up much longer than I had originally intended I thank you guys once again for your kind words.
Cheers Stevo.

[Hudstar]

That's great, Stevo Just keep doing what you think is right, but please; always be honest with yourself (and us here)

[Lostinspace]

Stevo - That's so great to hear that the experiment went well That must feel amazing after all the dire AA predictions that such a thing is impossible. I would echo Bleep's advice to be on the lookout for habit catching up with you, especially if you plan on making drinking a regular part of your life. But I don't wanna rain on your parade, either. It's time to celebrate your freedom!

[Stevo]

G'day to all the MWO crew,
I went over to my mates bucks party yesterday afternoon and had a few beers with him and the rest of the revellers.I felt that I was 100% back in my element which was a bit scary.Everyone was drinking and had been for 24 hours therefore the vibe was very jovial.
I drank at a much faster rate than during the experiment a week before,I had drank 4 stubbies in about an hour and a half.This was much like my drinking previous to recovery.
I knew after 3 that I was getting way too comfortable and decided to have only the one more and then say thanks for having me over but I really have to go now,which I did.I had to drive about 45 minutes to get home and knew that even though I had only been drinking mid strength beers that I would most likely be over the limit(not by much but nevertheless over)due to the rapid pace that I had drank them.
I jumped in my car and drove a short way to the foreshore at Byron Bay as this is where I was.Got out of my car and went for a walk along the beach.
I then got back in my car and drove home.The unopened leftover beer in my car which had gone down so well at the shindig was extremely tempting(I used to love knocking off work and driving home whilst drinking a beer).I did not submit to the temptation though.
I got home safely and had put a couple of drinks in the fridge at home prior to leaving which I then opened the first of.
Once at home the desire to drink jovially and socially had disappeared but I finished the first anyway.I opened a second and drank about 1/3rd of it before tipping the rest down the sink.
I think that I was more interested in the atmosphere yesterday than the drinking(it was somewhat romantic,if that makes any sense).I am sure that all the thinking about myself being over the limit and having to make sure I left before things went too far was a by product of taking Baclofen these days as previously none of these things would have really crossed my mind.
It was interesting that I so wanted to open a beer to drink on the drive home(once again romantic)but when I got home the allure was not there.
I do not want to drink today and ofcourse there is still AL in my house.I didn't really have a hangover this morning but still an uncomfortable,unsettled sensation was present.I am not enjoying this feeling and it serves as a deterent.
Although I could have easily fallen back into party mode yesterday I did not and I feel that it was a successful endeavour.
I am realising that my new found freedom has facets that I did not expect and that I am very much in a new learning experience.
All this said,I actually think that if I hadn't gone over to see my mate I don't think that I would have drank at all,it was the being part of a social situation where drinking was the norm that made me decide to have a drink.The decision was mine and that is what I chose to do,but if I had have stayed home I would have gotten through the afternoon without even thinking about drinking such is the beauty of Baclofen.I had not had a drink since the night of the experiment and had not really been interested.
Anywho,that is all I have to say I will continue to keep you guys updated on any changes I have concerning my drinking whilst on the Baclofen journey.
Hope this hasn't bored you too much and take care.
Cheers Stevo.

[MeJustMe]

Good to hear the experiment went okay Stevo, and that the Bac seems to be doing the job.

I have decided to quit the trial. I can't be a guinea-pig anymore; it is too damaging to me and my family. I don't know if I really thought this through when I started this. The problem is that my drinking is as bad or worse than it has ever been while I have been on the trial. Except for the one afternoon three days in that I felt indifferent to alcohol.

That is the other problem; I don't know what dose of Bac I am on, if any. What if I am on the placebo? I can't tell you how much that would mess with my head. I think I am on the 25mg or 75mg Bac dose, given that one day of indifference and itchy skin (a known SE of Bac), but whatever it is, it is certainly not enough.

I see my GP on Thursday and I will ask her for a script for Antibuse and for Baclofen. I will need to find out what I am on, if any, from the trial and tritrate up from there.

[Stevo]

MeJustMe I am sorry to hear that you are giving up on the trial,
but can understand your frustration.The not knowing would do my head in too.I have found myself at times thinking things like"what if I am only on a placebo and I am just willing this to happen?"I came to the conclusion that if it was a placebo and the doctor was quietly using me as a play thing it didn't matter as I truly did feel different.I like most people who suffer from alcoholism was ready and willing as you are to try and rid myself of this curse any way that I could.I also came to the conclusion with my head full of AA that my alcoholic thinking was just telling me these things.I do believe that I am on Baclofen but the mind likes to play tricks and I have no reason to doubt that my prescriptions are the real thing.You on the other hand have very good reasons to suspect that you are on a placebo.
I really am only telling you this because as I read your post it came to my mind that I had gone through periods of thinking I too was receiving a placebo.
At the end of the day you must do what is right for you and your family.

Good luck with your doctor and getting the information from the people running the trial.For me Baclofen has truly been a game changer and I hope that it is for you too.

Keep us posted and once again I wish you the best of luck with whatever direction that you choose to take.
Cheers Stevo.

[MeJustMe]

Thanks Steve, I hope that Bac does for me what it does for you and many others. It is my only hope now. My experience from that one Friday, just three days in on the trial, gives me enormous hope. I have never experienced indifference to alcohol like that. The rest of the trial period has been hell. I have tried AA, I have tried hyponotherapy, Naltrexone, Campral and Antibuse. I am fast running out of options. As for rehab, in Australia they are all AA-based. I don't think that will work. also tried various powders and potions that are supposed to alleviate addiction. None of that worked either. Sorry that I am whinging, I am just so over it.

[kronkcarr]

MeJustMe,

Check out skullbabyland's thread to see how well baclofen and Antabuse worked. For me skull is a great success story.

https://www.mywayout.org/community/showthread.php?72559-Skullbaby's-Progress

Maybe this will ease your mood. ��

[Stevo]

A big G'day from Australia guys,
Here is the next not so exciting instalment of Stevo's journey into drinking whilst on Baclofen after 2 years of abstinence.

At this point I have drank each weekend since taking the leap and doing the experiment.Over the first 3 weekends I was definitely finding that it was easy to get to a point of disinterest and tip the last of the beer that I was drinking out,exactly what I had come to expect from being on Baclofen and assuming that I had hit the switch.
This weekend though,especially Friday night has been different.
On Friday afternoon I had decided to go over to a nearby town to see some people that I know are also in recovery(their recovery being via AA).I get along well with this select few and thought that it would be a good idea to spend some time with them.
Next thing I know I decide that it would be good to have a beer,it was Friday afternoon and I have had a fairly busy week so I crack the first one.It goes down beautifully and I go for number 2,by now any notion of me heading over to see these friends has flown out the window and the only thing that I wanted to do was keep drinking.
I don't know if it was what the 12 step fellowships would call the compulsion or the allergy but it just felt so right.Next thing I am doing is heading to the bottle shop,where I brought a carton of beer.Now I used to drink around a carton a day but had not even considered buying a carton since I did the experiment(my logic was"if I buy a carton I get a free 6 pack and since I am not drinking like I used to I get to save some money and just because it is in the house doesn't mean I have to drink it").This was a bit of my pre Baclofen thinking sneaking in,I believe.
Anyway I came home knowing that I had heaps of beer and accordingly I drank until the wee hours of the morning with loud music and all the trimmings of the things that I had felt that I had missed out on for the previous 2 years.Other than a bit of loud music I didn't become obnoxious or an irritation to anyone in the house or the neighbours(I wasn't exposing them to loud music once it was too late).
As I have had a tendency to do drugs along with my drinking over the years there was a stage during the night where I started thinking to myself that doing drugs would be a good idea too.It was like the beer wasn't quite doing it so I should find another substance to finish the job.
I have not had any thoughts like this in a long time.
Drinking was always my primary drug of choice even to the point of being able to keep drugs in my house and not really pay too much attention to them as long as I had alcohol.This ofcourse was only in the end,I have gone through many different phases and stages of addiction.My point being that in the stage that I was in just before coming back into recovery as long as I had beer I didn't really feel that I needed anything else to get me to where I wanted to be,wasted wise.
I am wondering if it is a Baclofen thing that the beer just wasn't doing what I had wanted it to do,therefore I was considering using something else to get me there.
I did not feel at any stage throughout the night that I was not interested in drinking more beer.
I woke up the next morning with a killer hangover and the uncomfortable feeling that I have described in previous posts telling myself that where I am right now is definitely not where I want to be on a regular basis ha.
I fumbled through the day knowing that I had to be at a wedding in the afternoon.
I get to the wedding still feeling sick and knowing that drinking is going to be a huge part of it.I am with people that I have not seen in a long time and after the ceremony they want to have a beer with me(I knew that this would happen).
I stayed for a few beers and as I had done a couple of weeks back at the bucks party I politely said that I had to go and did just that,I left.
I believe that once again the Baclofen indifference was working away,although it seemed non existent the night before.
I came home and had a few more beers and as in previous weeks I got to a point where I just wasn't interested and I tipped the last of the stubby I was drinking out.I went to bed and woke up this morning with no massive headache or nausea but once again the uncomfortable feeling that I do not like at all.
I am having to write this as quickly as possible right now as my kids are getting rowdy and I have promised to take them to the park,which they are now looking for me to make good on.
I will finish on this,since I have done the experiment I have had AL in the house constantly and have walked through life without any cravings or feelings of "well it is here,I may aswell drink it"until today.Today I have been toying with the idea of having a few just because it is there.This is a familiar thought process which I hadn't experienced in a long time.
It is telling me that I need to be very careful with drinking although now yes I can have a few and be able to happily walk away and I can even have nights like what I had on Friday night without it becoming a descent into oblivion,I must be careful and I still have a lot to learn about not just taking the new found freedom that I have with Baclofen for granted.
Probably a lot of typos in there but cant review it right now I have to race out the door and go to the park before my kids want to kill me.
Hoping that it makes sense and others may be able to relate and/or offer advice,suggestions or opinions.
Cheers Stevo.