Psilocybin Treatment

[anne1232]

Had session one (of what will be two) Tuesday night. If there's any interest here about it I can answer questions.

The unhelpful question is 'did it work?'That's like running after someone leaving his talk therapy and asking - 'did it work??' Yes, the medicine is infinitely more efficient than talk therapy, but of course it will be very different for each person and in the end,
it can not keep people from bending their arm.

That said, the experience is life changing in only good ways. I am tearing up now, with gratitude for having (and seizing) opportunity to have met the gentle, wise beyond human ability to understand, playful, and loving spirit.

Of the "Big Three" of healers (iboga, ayahuasca, and psilocybin) the p is by far the most accessible, most gentle, and most affordable, yet from my experience as powerful a teacher as Iboga in its own way- though very different. Highly recommend.

facebook is a great resource for tracking down providers. There are many groups, find one in your genera area, join, then ask. Get references from those who have used that provider.

If you have no interest in this topic- please resist the urge to leave thoughtless and disrespectful comments here, thanks

[jane27]

Anne, I hadn't heard about psilocybin, so I Googled it to learn about it.. I read that it has been used to treat OCD and anxiety /sadness in terminally ill cancer patients. Use of for addiction was mentioned , but I didn't see much. What are you taking it for?

I hope it continues to be a positive experience for you & would love to hear more.

[Spiritfree]

Hi Ann -This is great news to read. I have yet to read where someone had a bad experience -except for those who abuse it recreationally. Thanks for this thought provoking and helpful information.

SF

[Lostinspace]

Thanks so much anne for getting back to us with your experience. The fact that you’re “tearing up with gratitude” to have had that experience speaks for itself. I’m happy to hear that you’re going through something that may very well be profoundly life changing, and I hope it brings you the peace you’re looking for. Keep us posted after the second session. I’m excited for you.

[anne1232]

Jane27 check out youtube videos about it. I am 'taking it' for general self-examination, I guess. I can REALLY see it being useful for end of life/bad diagnosis issues...brings up stuff that will be specific to each on his/her own path to understanding...if 'addiction' is part of that, then it will address it. Questions need to be ('I would love to hear more') more specific- but I'll try this- I guess...it showed how I had no 'safe place' to be, in my own head, due to past experiences...and the addiction made a safe place in my head, where I could go back and back, and the same thing woud always happen; thus creating a 'safe place,' reinforced with each use/attempt at finding that place. Plus a million more lessons....we're all dying and it doesn't matter, for example. We know that intellectually, but it makes you really FEEL that- that's fine, in fact, sort of funny. And so much more

[jane27]

I think I get it. Tell me if this is right....
the treatment induces a heightened awareness in an alternate reality which is devoid of negative emotions such as fear and anxiety. Within this more utopic paradigm, the patient is to able examine the problem or limiting belief, re-rationalize it, and change perception at the root permanently. (Even after the drug wears off, the lesson learned remains).

If I have the correct grasp, its very interesting and something I could see being of great value as an adjunct to traditional therapies. I've always been scared of hallucinogenics for the very reason that they seem to melt away carefully constructed emotional barriers. I think, Oh my God, what would happen, I'd go absolutely insane, and who would be in control of the situation? (Have you ever read anything on attachment theory?) Like with any kind of medical/psychological treatment, finding a reputable provider would be helpful in assuaging fears about side effects or things going bad. I will look at You Tube. Where are you located? I am on the East Coast of the US & this is the first time I have heard about this treatment. Good luck with your 2nd treatment. Will look forward to hearing more!

[Spiritfree]

Interesting videos (short):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPLimDG_HVY (TEDx)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gweShb4qQok

[jane27]

Interesting & valuable perspective.

[neophyte]

I've done psilocybin a few times, though not in high doses, most was probably 2 grams. 3.5g is considered a decent trip where introspection and life changing aspects come in. Not sure what dose would be required for any treatment for alcoholism or psychotherapy is required as an adjunct. Even Bill W, founder of AA said that LSD was a powerful tool that helped him stop drinking, LSD works in a similar way to mushrooms, has a shorter duration and the dose can be more easily managed. So there is some substance to using psychedelics to treat alcoholism. Though it never helped me.

What has me really interested is Ibogaine which is known to stop addiction to opiates and alcohol in tracks permenantly. It works this way by repairing dopamine in the reward centers in the brain for which addicts suffer and is damaged further with alcohol consumption, perhaps its hard wired into our genes for some people e.g. people with a family history of alcoholism . Interestingly dopamine keeps coming up as the key component in almost all addictions to the most destructive drugs alcohol, opiates, amphetamines, cocaine., etc. Even though some of those drugs do not target dopamine directly as is the case with Alcohol. Even Baclofen itself works on ruining the dopamine reward aspect of alcohol.

Om regards to Ibogaine, its a κ-opioid (KOR) agonist, here is the mechanism of action which I found very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9A-opioid_receptor#Role_in_treatment_of_drug_addiction

That said, I wouldn't go rushing around trying to find this, it's a very dirty drug, targets many receptors, gives you an uncomfortable 3 day trip, terrible body load and has risk of even death.

I hope there is more research in this area, that a drug will be uncovered that specifically targets this receptor with an improved safety profile.

[kronkcarr]

A friend's husband was a crackhead for 10 years and went to rehab and spent months on Suboxone. He went to Costa Rica twice to do Ibogaine in a medical clinic. From all I heard about the clinic (getting him off Suboxone before he got there, EKG and blood work requirements) they were top notch.

He had very interesting and calming hallucinations but, for him, it didn't help. He's always quit therapy and not been able to process or grow or move past his feelings.

I've read lots about hallucinogenics being used to treat various psychological issues and I think that's promising.

[anne1232]

Jane27- I think you've nailed it. I'm on the west coast but I assure you- should you seek psilocybin you will find it anywhere/everywhere. Fred- I think we're really talking about different things. I'm glad you've found a protocol that works for you but there's no reason to declare that- based on your 'recreational' experiences; for 'shits and giggles' -other people who seek it as medicine with proper guidance who have profound experiences should be denigrated. Neophyte- Iboga and psilocybin are plants, not drugs. Baclofan and LSD are drugs, and I would respectfully argue that picked and dried mushrooms are FAR more easily controlled than LSD. Unless you're in a lab in a clinical trial you really don't know what you're getting re LSD. I have experienced Iboga and it was not the slightest bit 'uncomfortable' (except for the emotional pain it brought out and addressed for which I was very grateful to have examined in such an efficient manner). It is hard on the heart, though, as it needs that as its 'engine' to drive the experience. As for Ibogaine deaths, they have exclusively occurred (in recorded history) when a patient has lied to the providers about having taken speed, coke or any amphetamines prior to treatment. More people die on alcohol each day than all recorded Iboga deaths. Anyway, one of the points of my post is to say, having done both, p is safer, more gentle and way cheaper than Iboga, yet in the proper dose a very effective medicine for hitting the dopamine receptors and obtaining the insight equivalent to god knows how many years of talk therapy

[anne1232]

Kronk- I hear stories like this all the time and it makes me crazy- he went to a 'rehab,' spent what- 10K for 30 days (probably more like 20-30K) got fed the 12 Steps and hooked on subs. Sheesh. Then, when it doesn't 'take' they blame the patient for not doing the 12 Steps properly. Then the patient leaves hooked on subs. It's a tired, sick formula that does nothing except to make the owners of the rehabs rich. But question- how did the Costa Rica clinic get him off subs 'before' he got there?? Is that what you meant? Iboga decimates sub addiction in the first few hours. It does not work well with amphetimine addictons

[Spiritfree]

Anne -It is my opinion that these hallucinogens may end up being the real answer for the addicted. Why? Well, the addicted brain, and for me it was alcohol, must have a total reset at some point in time. Even with Baclofen, the brain still sometimes remembers the perceived calmness/excitement that alcohol can initiate.

It really does sound to me as if hallucinogens can help reset the brain to a point that it can immediately go back (or forward) to a point that it can have a choice.

Thank you for this thread.
SF

[kronkcarr]

anne,

The first rehab he went to was not AA oriented. It was centered around healthy habits--diet, stress management, exercise etc etc. The second one may or may not have been AA affiliated. He got the Suboxone from an addiction psychiatrist in our area. Later his wife, through research, found that Suboxone is just another addiction

The Ibogaine clinic had him come off Suboxone with Diluadid and various supplements and perhaps other things I'm not aware of. It took quite a but of time and was done with medical guidance. All went well clinically. He still has troubles.

[Spiritfree]

Anne -as most of know, not everyone is going to "get it". In fact, we will hear more about the ones that it does not work for than the ones that it did work for. Such is life. The fact remains that if you do not have a personal experience to share, then all you are doing is promoting the good or bad perceived experience of another.

A must see video if you have any interest in changing your life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4XL_Hk_L5g

Thank you for this thread.